/a/ - Animu & Mango

How many times did they recycle animations? It was getting absurd.

I would like to meet the fan from the late 90s, probably a regular on some geocites site, who first posted his silver hair goku donut steel before the years went by and that was everyone's first deviantart submission. I will shake his hand and look him in the eye and say, "You were not wrong. You are vindicated. Everyone who laughed and doubted you is not laughing anymore." Truly he was a man ahead of his time.

A lot of recycled animations but it was one of the more satisfying powered up fights.

>>801351

>>801365

I'm watching HnK right now and I reached a point in the series where each episode uses less recycled animations than a DBS episode. I didn't think this would happen but here we are.

>>801365

Gotta wonder what the fuck the galaxy manifesting was meant to be. Interested to see if the manga will do that or if it was Toei just throwing random shit out there.

How hot do you think Gokus new super sparkly aura is? Hot enough to kill someone or some gay lukewarm piss?

Esto es el fin Jiren.

They are really trying hard to hide Frieza when he pops out at the last minute to takedown both a weaken Jiren and Goku and use the Super Dragon Balls to become a god-of-all. The techniques they use to ignore Frieza makes it obvious they are going to do a "surprising" thing with him within these last 2 episodes before the break.

>>801417

At this point I'm just wondering how they will handle it.

Will Jiren knock out Goku and a surprise attack from Frieza will destroy the rock Jiren is standing on?

Will it end in a draw between Goku and Jiren but U7 will win because everyone forgot about Frieza?

>>801383

I'm pretty sure Chi Chi would burst into flames if he ever did it around her. The spectators are a good distance away and they're feeling it.

>>801372

I think they did it just to look cool, but who knows if the manga will give it some meaning.

>>801418

>>801417

I'd find it funny if Jiren and Goku take each other out for the finale, but then grand padre tells everyone that the winner is a still unconscious Frieza. Of course, there is also the option for Frieza to pull a Piccolo and get himself killed, letting u7 win via the rules. That ending would be unsatisfying for Goku, but it could go in a few directions. Jiren gets DQd and Goku gets to wonder who was the strongest. Jiren doesn't get DQd and then assuming Goku has to either wish back those that died there or those that were erased there, we could start the next arc after the hiatus in search of way for the option that wasn't taken. Of course, Frieza may get his wish to reach true godhood and god-Frieza could very well be the hook for the next major arc. It could also mean that we'll get to see King Cold again and maybe a Cooler-type.

>>801417

I really am wondering how Frieza is totally off screen when the entire stage is being turned into Namek 2.0 apocalypse edition.

>>801351

Recycled animations aren't even as bad as tweening the arms on a static image. Why does goko have a plastic wrap filter on him?

>>801418

I'm expecting Goku and Jiren to fight to a complete stalemate, and either both get knocked off, or run out of time before either is defeated.

It's interesting that the episode preview shows what looks like the same kind of aura around Jiren. Which would mean he also has Ultra Instinct and somehow nobody realized it. Because at this point, it's getting fucking absurd that he's still so strong.

Here we have a Saiyan, hardened by many battles against what was always the current strongest being in the Universe, who has fought toe-to-toe and been personally trained by Gods of every level, whose chief trait is always enduring no matter the hardship, who achieved mastery over God-ki and now has gained the full power of an ancient secret technique that gives the most powerful Gods fear and respect.

But this random fuck Jiren is still stronger. For absolutely no reason. If they don't at least give him Ultra Instinct, it's going to be so fucking ridiculous.

>>801476

It's over, Jiren lost. Goku powered up and just beat him to death.

>>801480

I think that’s Jiren right before he powers up to shirtless mode. I’m looking forward to how the manga expands on his backstory, because it was pretty lackluster in the anime. I was thinking they were going to go for a Toguro-style backstory, where his students got slaughtered while he was away. That doesn’t work for Jiren though unless the aource of his strength is something sinister and his good guy persona plays into that somehow. Toguro threw everything away for strength on his quest for vengeance.

I also keep thinking about there being only two episodes left. That means the Jiren/Goku fight might get wrapped up in a single episode in two weeks with the final episode being the send off. However, if it doesn’t end next episode then that leaves the final episode for a possible Frieza cliffhanger.

Despite all my complaints about Super, I couldn't help get giddy at the latest episode. Dragon Ball is still Dragon Ball no matter what. Nostalgia is one hell of a drug indeed.

>>801451

He just needs to hold on for 10 namekian minutes

>>801602

In a perfect world this tournament arc would've somehow lasted 3-4 episodes while briefly summarizing the fights going on in the battle royale. The anime that did this kind of thing best would have to be the final fight scene in Shokugeki no Souma.

>>801606

The manga did a good job of showingthe clusterfuck of the tournament while highlighting each character. Next chapter will be Gohan's squad fighting Frost.

>>801640

Piccolo should have been the final bad guy.

>>801476

>I'm expecting Goku and Jiren to fight to a complete stalemate, and either both get knocked off, or run out of time before either is defeated.

I can't see it. I don't even think Jiren can land an actual hit on Goku now. If Jiren had ultra instinct, Belmod wouldn't be pissing his pants at the fact that Goku ever got Ultra Instinct, because Jiren's base power would have already been far greater. Goku is going to edge out a victory and we'll have a frieza scene. I'm hoping Frieza just flat out attacks Goku and tries to knock him off but the timer runs out, but since this is Super, it'll probably just look like he's about to do that, but then help Goku back on his feet.

>>801451

I don't even know how Jiren and Goku haven't accidentally knocked him off by now with all the explosions and wind. Or maybe he was burned to death already.

>>801653

There are a few floating rocks left, so he's probably still on one of them. He's either still unconscious or staying the hell out of their way and hoping they continue to ignore him. There's literally nothing Frieza can do to either of them at this point. He really has become Piccolo.

>>801657

That honestly would have been a nice ending.

>>801666

To add to this. Could you imagine Linda Young playing Frieza again in a role similar to her portrayal of Genkai post-tournament of power? Frieza did master his ki control while dead, so he'd be really useful to learn from. There will more than likely be another time skip following the current arc, so Uub might be old enough to play a part in the next arc. That's also more than enough time for Frieza to fuck off somewhere and do/learn something important.

What if. What if El Grande Padre can rewind time for longer than his angels? What if, insteal of 3 minutes he can rewind the WHOLE 45 min tourney? After its done, he just goes *snap* and they are back at the start, with only the victors knowing of the alternate timeline? All the players would be restored and everyone could go home happy, if a little pissed for being asked to fight then not getting to.

>>801493

I wonder if the identity of whoever slaughtered Jiren's family and friends is ever going to be revealed. Doesn't even look like they'll have time. It seems an obvious setup for the Big Bad of the next arc, who is stronger than Jiren is (and thus also stronger than Mastered Ultra Instinct Super Saiyan God Whitish-Silver Goku). But who knows if Super is even going to come back, at this point. If it does, who knows if Toei will pick up where they left off or just fucking re-roll the series after Buu again.

>>801543

I know the feeling. I get it less and less as this stupid arc drags on with my able to predict exactly what's going to happen almost frame-by-frame, but sometimes there's little things. Like when Vegeta talked about how all the Saiyans have continued to improve themselves during the course of the tournament, playing catch-up because they were always the underdogs, and yet prevailing. That was pretty cool. For a split second, it almost made the entire arc seem like it had a central point, instead of just being an assemblage of random shit.

>>801657

Yeah, they spent several seasons building up the lore for the Legendary Super Saiyan, then they retconned it in the very next season.

>>801372

It's TOEI reusing assets from Saint Seiya and implying Monkey Goku's Cosmo is expanding rapidly while awakening his 7th Sense and unlock Musou Tensei in order to beat Alien Jiren and cause a miracle.

>>801657

That would have been nice, but I wouldn't mind a continuing story afterwards with Gohan defeating Cell, maybe glimpsing the power of the Super Saiyan his father had, but never attaining it. I liked the theme of perfection vs will the Cell Games had. I felt like it completed the idea Roshi gave Goku by beating him in the first Tenkaichi Budokai: There's always someone stronger out there, so don't try to become perfect, but always strive to be better.

>>801653

>Frieza dying offscreen to random bullshit

>Later on they ask where he is and it flashes back to him screaming while jumping around before a random blast dusts him

>No one gets punished for this

That'd be ideal

>>801735

>Frieza unleashing that high pitched screech of his while leaping desperately from rock to rock

>Gets pasted by Goku and Jiren colliding

>It's also revealed that Hit used his time powers to secretly stay in the fight but got knocked out by a flurry

Is the next episode this Sunday or is there a gap again?

>>801741

The last gap was for the Nagoya marathon, we are back to standard release schedule.

>>801755

There's another event next Sunday, i.e. another break.

DBS 130 airs at the 18th March.

I just feel like the entirety of super, was a huge waste. It had some really good ideas (Hakaishin, Angels, Alternate universe theory, Ultra instinct, etc) but seems like it was executed horrendously. The 1st two arcs were just movie retellings. Why waste that precious episode space to do that? Also the really silly "liquid Vegeta" arc, i mean, come on. Super basically consists of the Beerus v Champa arc, the Goku Negro arc and the Universal ass pull arc. I mean, if it was restructured a bit differently I think things would have improved a lot. They could have given some time to Cabba and his alternate planet Salada or whatever and Kale and Caulifla could have been at least showed some background and feel for who they are and what their relationship is to each other. It just reeks of being rushed and thats sad considering this is one of the all time great anime's.

>>801917

Toei's gonna Toei. The schedule is a goddamn mess.

Like you said, Super has it's moments, but the package it is being delivered on is a goddamn mess.

Something that's really noticeable about Super is how there's no blood at all. No real injury, though, this is not an issue with Toei but rather what they can get away with on daytime TV has changed, actually, it is an issue with Toei being pussies because you go watch other shows for kiddies and they do shit that makes nighttime anime blush at how shameless it is.

Something else that hurts it's very easy to tell it's not an adaptation of Toriyama's manga, not because of the filler, or the QUALITY, or anything like that, no, but because the battle choreography doesn't hold up at all without Toriyama's manga to get it from. Hell, this is even noticeable even in the Super manga. There's no good battle flow and dynamism. Say all you want about Toriyama being a lazy fuck who made up shit as it went, because it's true, but the guy sure as hell was a genius for fightan scenes. That Toriyama wrote some stuff on some napkins and went his merry way to enjoy his gorillions while Toei has to fill up the massive blanks do not help at all either.

>>801925

>but because the battle choreography doesn't hold up at all without Toriyama's manga to get it from.

I was just going to post about this so i'll just agree with you here whole hardheartedly. I watched Z for many reasons but one that always stood out is you never knew what crazy and cool animations would come out of any given battle. The fight choreography was great, dodges and feint's, the counters, the redirects, the sharpness of it all and the feeling of power that translated through the screen was intense.

Supers fights basically come down to every battle being a "storm of fists" where the 2 opponents just move left and right and back again across the screen. How. Exciting.

>>801917

Don't forget the quality drastically improved during the Kefla fight, where one of the old artists came back temporarily and they told him to do it in a week.

>>801976

The whole arc is a slog to go through, but having that one dodge come out of left field made it completely worth it.

I loved the episode. It was a good battle. My gripe:

> Not showing Frieza to make him seem like a checkov's gun when they could be showing him dodging the explosions and it would be way more interesting.

>>801925

>>801931

He was great for comedy and adventure, but the thing that made him into one of the greatest battle shounen mangaka is his expertise in fight choreography. It's why the Dragon Ball manga is practically a masterpiece.

You can see and picture every single movement, no matter how "fast" the fight is going. Yeah, you're meant to understand that they are going faster than the human eye can follow, but YOU can follow it because you have the picture right there.

He was a big fan of martial arts films, and he put that to good use.

>>801685

Only problem with GT is the little kids being fucking clones and going super.

Remove those two things, and yeah, would have been amazing.

Granny Pan would have been nicer had she not had to talk to another clone.

>>801476

>Here we have a Saiyan, hardened by many battles against what was always the current strongest being in the Universe, who has fought toe-to-toe and been personally trained by Gods of every level, whose chief trait is always enduring no matter the hardship, who achieved mastery over God-ki and now has gained the full power of an ancient secret technique that gives the most powerful Gods fear and respect.

Goku's universe is much weaker than the other ones. That includes the gods. Jiren just grew up in a more advanced and more powerful universe. They explained all this at the start of the tournament.

>>801925

I absolutely agree with you about the battles. I'm rewatching DBKai and I'm at the Frieza battle where he first goes into his last form, and the battle is awesome. It's really got me pulled in and you really feel like Frieza is hell on Namek and no one can win. Watching DBSuper, I just feel like it's a bunch of fighting and Goku will win somehow. It's really hard to explain. I know what happens in the Frieza arc, I've watched it before, but it's far more entertaining.

Oddly enough, I think it's something I didn't really appreciate in DBZ before DBSuper. I still think original DB is the best, but DBZ really had some strong points I didn't notice before regarding how they handle the fights.

>>802360

>Couple that with Goku constantly recovering rapidly

Muh Stamina is easily the worst and most non-sensical part of the whole ToP. Just how many times have Goku and Vegeta gone through it all and go Blue 5 seconds after saying that they're out of stamina? And then there's UI somehow being a auto-heal for Goku whenever he goes into it.

Jiren is also piss-poor as an arc final boss. He's not funny, interesting, charismatic, has a cool gimmick or is unique. He's just alien superman who's super duper the strongest and punches hard. That's it. And then they go and reveal his backstory and it is the most generic drivel possible.

The only thing I feel the ToP has truly delivered about has been 17. He's been the embodiment of what the ToP was supposed to be: A battle royale where your wits, experience and unique skills are more important than raw powerlevels. For me, he's the MVP of the arc, and I didn't expect nothing of him going on.

I feel that the real core issue is that the arc, rather than being an arc where UI happens, feels more like an arc constructed so that UI can happen and everything in-between is filler. And I really hope that Goku wins, because I'm gonna blow up a fuse if all this shit was for nothing and Goku goes and loses again.

>>802152

Decent vid:

>>802391

I always get the feeling that he is only reading an amalgamation of post from readdit or other shit. I've seen some shit and he does very little research, in his DBZ vid the faggot claimed the show came out in the late 90s on toonami and how it was this new shit that wasn't done before.

He comes off as somebody with a very superficial knowledge of the medium with an occasional insightful comment or observation.

>>802422

>He comes off as somebody with a very superficial knowledge of the medium with an occasional insightful comment or observation.

Just like every youtube e-celeb type.

>>802422

Don't you know? Professional youtubers who make a living wage off ads, sponsorships, and patreon are too busy to actually sit down and fully form their own opinions!

His shit ain't that bad, but you're exactly right. He did a Simpsons video that was very well received and he more or less admits that he lifted most of the ideas in it from the Dead Homers Society and a few essays, which he mentions in the video itself. The guy absolutely lifts opinions from other sources and presents them as his own, then feasts on the adulation for appearing so smart and tasteful.

>>802388

It's more than likely that Goku will beat Jiren, but there is always that chance that either Frieza does him immediately afterwards or Jiren really does beat Goku and we get a tie due to Frieza still being there somewhere. A tie might be the best option for a future arc as it would leave Jiren open and Toei and/or the manga could build him up more.

I'm really hoping the manga does something more with him. The anime really dropped the ball with his backstory. A better backstory would have been that he lost control of his power in a fit and obliterated his entire planet. He could have then had another even where he failed to stop an enemy from killing, because he wasn't strong enough or couldn't control his power well enough. He then dedicated his life to making sure that he never kills again and was strong enough/in control enough to ensure that no one ever dies on his watch. It's really hard to keep making stronger and stronger enemies for the hero to face. Just look at Superman and Doomsday. They had to nerf Doomsday, because he was getting way too strong for anyone that wasn't Superman. The top was a way to try and make everyone that wasn't Goku more useful and 17 was really the anime's major success story there. The manga really does need to do a better job of it.

>>802388

Probably one of the primary reasons people think the Cell arc is best is because Cell himself is a joy to observe. He has a character and a personality. Jiren has nothing but the shittiest copy paste backstory I've seen.

>>802355

Why does he look like a super autist?

>>802568

Yeah no kidding, this was more of a ascended form than any of his previous transformations but it got thrown out within seconds. And we'll probably never see it again and Jiren will probably power up to be able to contend with Goku in the next 3 minutes.

>>802589

>Jiren finally gets serious and blows Goku away

I hate this.

>>802595

It doesn't even make sense. How can you defeat Ultra Instinct? It's pretty much the perfect form, you shouldn't even be able to hit someone that can dodge by instinct alone.

Or is Jiren stronger than El Grande Padre?

>>802589

So basically this then?

>>802589

What a load of horseshit, this doesn't match up with the preview, where you can physically see Jiren's arm struggling to break Goku's defense, while Goku is showing no signs of stress. I will say though, if this is true, then my theory is now that DBS was written by Frieza as a propaganda piece.

>>802589

>The interesting thing is, what is going to be Freeza's wish now that he has the Super Dragon Balls?

He will bring back the other universes because he thinks it's funny and unexpected.

>>802589

>Frieza strikes the definitive blow and wins the tourney

I told my friend this would happen and he didnt believe me. glad I was right for once, im really upset we arent getting an episode this week, is there like a festival or something?

>>802668

oddly enough i can see that happening

It doesn't say Frieza won it for them. And I don't even see how Frieza can win when he couldn't beat Jiren's glare punch move thingy

>>802670

Jiren is likely half dead, and 17 already showed that you can damage Jiren with surprise attacks.

A full power laser from Golden Freeza can pierce through an off-guard Jiren, Freeza only needs to make sure that the laser isn't lethal.

OHOHOHOHOHO

>>802597

Ultra-Instinct isn't invincibility, it's auto-pilot for dodging. Jiren firing point-blank bypasses this by setting up a scenario where it's impossible for Goku to dodge. If you're going to argue that it should have dodged the setup for the point-blank shot, note that we haven't seen the episode, so we don't know if he's doing this while UI is causing Goku to do an existing dodge or something else that's smart but improbable to actually happen, since this is DBS.

>>802668

He'll bring back the other universes just to defy the Zenos' and El Grande Padre's wish to erase weaker universes.

>>802675

>Or maybe Freeza has been training off-screen under the rubble and now he's stronger than Jiren.

He needs to get permission from either Goku or Jiren to get an off-screen training powerup.

>>802521

Best concept introduced: GoD

Worst concept introduced: the multiverse because it is functionally similar to other galaxies except for the twin universe thing which isn't even explored in an interesting way.

Concept most needing to flesh out: How to be a god because it was concept starting from the original series.

Concept least needing to flesh out: the origin of Super Saiyan legend

>>802606

>the preview doesn't match up with the actual episode

anon, they always do that

>>802675

>Frieza has been spending the last few minutes meditating under some rubble.

Frieza spent so much time meditating in Hell, that it's probably the equivalent of a hyperbolic time chamber for him now.

>>802689

>how to

You just take a god's place once he or she dies. That's how Kami passed on his powers. There's probably some ceremony as well. There's one to be a supreme kai's apprentice that Trunks took.

>>802684

>>802668

It could be worse.

>The Zeno-ohs sit in their chairs, proclaiming the obvious as usual as Jiren falls, briefly after the final universal erasure of the Tournament of Power

>"Wow! Frieza beat Jiren!"

>"He's so sneaky!"

>"So sneaky!"

>"Indeed I have"

>Frieza flies up

>Embeded starts playing

>Krillin nearly shitting himself: "F-Frieza..."

>Beerus growls

>Vegeta slams his fist while proclaiming "Frieza!"

>Frieza looks at the crowd

>"I lament, honestly, that you're disappointed in my win, considering that you're all still alive."

>Goku grinds his teeth

>"Especially you Goku. Why is it that you were so brave when someone from a weak universe could have caused your downfall, but you fear what I could do with the Super Dragon Balls?"

>Zeno-ohs: "Super Dragon Balls?" "What could you want to do?"

>Goku grinds his teeth. "I shouldn't have reminded Zeno-sama about the tournament..."

>"Hm? So this was your idea then? Well then, I think I know what must be done for the good of the Universe. Ohohohoho!"

>Everyones stares

>"I WISH SON GOKU WAS NEVER BORN!"

>El Grande Padre nods. "It shall be done."

>Vegeta shouts "KAKARATO!"

>Gohan shouts "DAD!"

>Goku: "FRIIIIEEEEZZAAAA!"

>El Grande Padre's brow raises

>Whis looks up

>"The energy released from this is going to cause catastrophic shifts in the universe, resulting in the possible collapse of your world entirely."

>Frieza smiles. "I'll risk it."

>Super Shenron appears, much to the U7 team's disbelief, erasing Goku from existence before flashing white

>The Super Dragon Balls pulsate with divine energy

>Their stars turn black

>Zenos "The Super Dragon Balls are black-starred!" "They're black, they're black!" "They're black, they're black!"

>El Grande Padre examines for a second, "It appears as though the energy released from wish caused the energy within them to turn negative."

>He looks towards Frieza, warning, "When you go back to your universe, if you fail to recover the Super Dragon Balls within one year of Earth's time, the negative energy will cause the destruction of the universe."

>"This concludes the Tournament of Power. The winning team will be sent back to its native universe, however altered it may be."

>The gang laments as they're teleported back, asking Whis how much they'll remember.

>Whis informs them that he and Beerus will know, and Frieza will as well.

>Beerus commands Frieza find the Black Star Super Dragon Balls before the universe is destroyed

>Frieza lets out a small ohoho, eyes closed and head pointed downward. "Don't worry, Beerus."

>The camera zooms in towards Frieza's eyes as he lifts his head up, opening his eyes and staring past the camera. "I plan to."

STEP INTO THE GRAND TOUR!

SUPER GRAND TOUR!

STEP INTO THE GRAND TOUR!

(DEE BEE ES GEE TEE!)

>>802703

I would absolutely watch Frieza unleashing a rampage across the universe as he retrieves the balls.

>>802703

Freeza replacing Goku as the MC would be a good thing.

Goku is getting stale, and Toriyama alright tried twice to replace Goku (Uub, Gohan).

Freeza is also the only character who's popular enough to successfully replace Goku.

In all seriousness, I am really interested in Freeza's wish.

Immortality(which was his original goal), becoming a little girl, reviving the other universes, there are so many good wishes.

>>802696

>You just take a god's place once he or she dies. That's how Kami passed on his powers. There's probably some ceremony as well. There's one to be a supreme kai's apprentice that Trunks took.

I meant all of the specifics of what will happen. It gives the user some power but how much? Are candidates selected by their power or their potential power? Can any mortal get god ki? Does getting god status grant god ki or a pathway to god ki? Can non-Namekian be the guardian and still activate the dragon balls? Has a non-Shinjin been a supreme kai? Is there other guardians other than the one on Earth and Namek? To what degree does Beerus treat Frieza as an apprentice? Can any mortal train to get and/or sense god ki? If someone makes a Spirit bomb with god ki and absorbs it, will they become a Super [Species] God?

>>802703

I wouldn't mind seeing Frieza as the new MC on a journey to collect the super dragon balls across u7. It would at least allow for the formula to change a bit. You could even add a Cooler character to join him with Vegeta being his servant once more. Then you could eventually have stuff fall apart as Trunks returns from another timeline to put doubt into Vegeta's mind. King Piccolo would have a reason to return. It would also add the potential for the evil androids and Cell to return.

>>802708

Trunks gained the power to heal when he finished the supreme kai apprentice ceremony. god of destruction candidates appear to be taught hakai before they take the mantle, but perhaps they gain better control over it when they do. Based on what Dende said, he has the ability to sense god ki due to being a god himself. I don't think there's a Namekian only rule. Piccolo isn't technically Namekian, as he was a reincarnation of demon king piccolo per his own words. Per Zumasu, candidates are selected for a variety of reasons, but his strength was obviously the reason Gowasu chose him. Trunks was invited by Shin to continue along the path of the Supreme Kai after the Goku Black arc was over, so I'm sure there isn't a rule against it. I think Frieza was just Beerus' lapdog, in a way that wasn't too different from how Beerus and Frieza treated King Vegeta. I would assume anyone can train to sense God ki once they've obtained it in some way. Gohan couldn't sense it when Goku went ssg, but I wonder if that changed once they started fusing in god ki with ssj. I'm sure if they managed to absorb the god ki, they'd probably be able to use it eventually if they were someone like a saiyan or cell, who had saiyan genes. Goku revived Master Roshi with God Ki, so I also wonder if anything will come from that. Roshi is already immortal, so I'm curious if he'll gain other abilities.

>>802707

Uub was just awful even back in GT. He was relevant for like half an episode once he absorbed Buu and then he became another punching bag. Gohan was made too much of a family man to ever take over the series. The only way that could change would be for Future Gohan to somehow show up in the past. He wouldn't be married to Videl nor would he have a child, so he could just train all day.

>>802703

This is what should play on Frieza's ascent.

>>802748

Wish Pilaf had a hulk mode like Garlic. I like the idea of Frieza keeping around to belt when he's frustrated.

>>802712

And those are interesting enough questions to explore. However you know what decided to make a movie about? More bullshit about the Saiyans.

>>802748

>I don't mean to stroke my own cock

Then don't because it is still a bad way to end DBS. This sounds more like a short gag comic/side story like that Reborn as Yamcha thing except with less potential.

I was thinking of how DB would be like if Toriyama decided to go with the angle of Earth having the best food earlier in the series. This leads to weird ideas starting from a female Vegeta wanting blow up the Earth because she blames the Earth for making her fat to female versions of other villains like Frieza, Buu, and Beerus with similar problems.

>>803196

The ToP was a dumb idea to begin with. There is no way salvage it. People were upset about Jiren's backstory but what did you guys expect with his personality?

The only good way to end DBS is undoing DBS.

>>803381

Hence Frieza wishing Beerus never got his prophecy.

>>803395

I rather have Jiren win and wish back the other universes out of pity. However, he was told that, while he is allowed to make that wish, Zeno will destroy them again. Out of fondness for Goku, the Zenos permit the recreation of U7. However, U7 is recreated in way that it no longer part of the multiverse and all of the events of DBS hasn't happen and is no longer possible. Being in an isolated universe, U7 doesn't need a GoD for now. Whis reincarnated Beerus as a nekomajin and sent him to Earth. Whis asks Goku to train Beerus and asks Beerus to protect Bulma (neither of them are present so it is more like a wish than a request). Because the Zenos grant the wish their own power, Jiren still gets a wish but 17's words still haunts him. He resolves to make better wish whether it is selfish or not.

I don't like idea of Frieza winning because his revival and inclusion into ToP are just pure fan service. Frieza didn't get more character development and he didn't it either. Golden Frieza is already stronger than SSJB Goku and he is way stronger than anything in DBZ. This guy was worried about the Super Saiyan legend.

>>803381

>The only good way to end DBS is undoing DBS.

It isn't, it's not like DBS is significantly worse than DBZ post Freeza.

That's where characters besides the saiyains lost their importance.

Heck, the best thing about the ToP was that there are strong non saiyans on U7's team (Freeza, 17).

If I was forced to continue DBS, I would move it to a ~22:00 time slot, and have an adventure arc where the characters need to gather the Super Dragon Balls to revive the other universes.

Something like a time limit should exist, i.e. Super Dragon Balls can only revive universes erased by Zeno for 2 years after erasure.

U7 would be forced to create multiple teams who search for the Super Dragon Balls at the same time.

This would allow weaker characters to get the spotlight.

>>803417

>I don't like idea of Frieza winning because his revival and inclusion into ToP are just pure fan service.

It's true that his revival was pure fan sercive.

But I don't see his inclusion in the ToP as pure fan service, it made sense that they would revive an SSB tier character for the ToP.

His inclusion in the ToP was the logical conclusion of Fukkatsu no F.

>>803571

>it's not like DBS is significantly worse than DBZ post Freeza.

Not this shit again. Everytime someone defends DBS they have to bring down DBZ. It is the same shit with the new Star Wars trilogy. DBS is definitely inferior to DBZ for the ff reasons:

• Extremely pussified violence

• Shitty animation

• 2/5 of the show is movie plots (every attempt to expand on the movies made it worse. Imagine even DBS fans skipped the BotG arc otherwise more people would have mentioned the 3 punches colliding is enough to destroy the universe thing)

• 2/5 of the show is tournament arcs (DBZ never did straight tournament minus the other world filler arc. Either it gets interrupted or it is only a tournament in name. After Goku won the World Martial Arts, tournament arcs aren't interesting.)

>But I don't see his inclusion in the ToP as pure fan service

Frieza getting that strong in the first place was a result of fan service. They removed Buu from roster with a reason that they admitted isn't suppose to be problem normally (They never explain why it is different now just it is.). Then they used the McGuffin that they really avoid using compared to other McGuffin that they could have used for ToP (Hyperbolic Time Chamber, Potential Unlock, Dragon Balls, teaching Goku's techniques).

>>803601

>Not this shit again. Everytime someone defends DBS they have to bring down DBZ.

Because DBZ is where most of the issues DB has started, particularly from the Cell arc onward.

>• Extremely pussified violence

Violence isn't a sign of quality.

>• Shitty animation

You're kidding, after the movie recaps DBS doesn't look any worse than DBZ.

The air battle between Cell & Goku in DBZ was cringe inducing.

>• 2/5 of the show is movie plots

That's an overestimation, the movie recaps ended with episode 27.

>. After Goku won the World Martial Arts, tournament arcs aren't interesting.

I disagree.

Why did tournament arcs stop being interesting after the 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai?

>Frieza getting that strong in the first place was a result of fan service

You act like as if DBZ wasn't full of fan service.

Heck, Vegeta is litterally fan service incarnate.

He was supposed to die, but turned into a "good guy" because of his popularity.

I don't even like DBS, but most of my issues with DB started with the Cell Arc.

>>803633

>Violence isn't a sign of quality

You're faggot that used someone complaining about Dora the Explorer as comparison, are you? When someone gets stabbed in the chest, you expect some gore or at least some weight to it.

>You're kidding, after the movie recaps DBS doesn't look any worse than DBZ.

Then you are just fucking blind.

>I disagree.

>Why did tournament arcs stop being interesting after the 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai?

Because the World Martial Arts Tournament was his big milestone and he had to fail several times before he won. Not only is Goku not going to lose anymore, he isn't going to get another chance to best his "rival".

>You act like as if DBZ wasn't full of fan service.

Again with this shit.

>Heck, Vegeta is litterally fan service incarnate.

>He was supposed to die, but turned into a "good guy" because of his popularity.

Source?

>I don't even like DBS, but most of my issues with DB started with the Cell Arc.

I think that Bioshock 1 was dogshit but I'm not going to defend BS:I.

>>803652

>Goku lost in both DBS tournaments.

>both

Did the series ended already? Also, he forfeited his match and U7 still won.

>This is hillarious, because you posted a video from the movie recaps, even though I said

I missed that part but the animation was still not good after that. Besides,why the arbitrary cut off point? I distinctly remembered Future Trunks and Goku being back to back and it showed Trunks sword on his back despite a second earlier it shown Trunks with his sword drawn out.

>Sorry, for the low resolution scan. I didn't find a better version.

The text was particularly hard to read but alright. I honestly still think DBS is just worse in that regard. I don't think DBZ is perfect or anything but really stop.

>>803647

>Did the series ended already?

Confirmed spoilers are out, that was the starting point of this entire sequence of posts.

Goku lost against Jiren, Freeza shots Jiren in the back.

> Also, he forfeited his match and U7 still won.

Your post was about Goku losing and forfeiture does count as a loss in a tournament.

>Besides,why the arbitrary cut off point?

Long running series vary significantly in their animation quality, Toei fucked up in the movie retellings, but the animation there isn't representative of the rest of Super.

> but really stop.

DBS is a direct sequel to DBZ, it's normal that they are compared.

Like I already said post of my issues with DB started from the Cell arc and just continued naturally into Super.

This isn't your safe space, I won't censor myself because of your sensibilities.

>>803673

>Your post was about Goku losing and forfeiture does count as a loss in a tournament.

Then you didn't understood the point of my post. Also, it was a team battle so they still won. U7 isn't going to lose ToP; and even if they did, we aren't going to see a rematch.

>Long running series vary significantly in their animation quality, Toei fucked up in the movie retellings, but the animation there isn't representative of the rest of Super.

First, excuses. Second, the animation is definitely worse than DBZ if you're strongest argument is the better parts of DBS are not worse than DBZ.

>Like I already said post of my issues with DB started from the Cell arc and just continued naturally into Super.

You are really just parroting Plagues of Gripes. It is really a common tactic to just decry the previous as shit so it somehow excuses the shittier sequel. People who defended DmC keep showing that cheesy scene in DMC1. The game journalists and the strangely enthnocentric SJWs just wanted to hijack DMC to appeal to Western liberal sensibilities. I never liked Fire Emblem but the idea of Phoenix mode still bothers me and more so the Western localizations.

>This isn't your safe space, I won't censor myself because of your sensibilities.

Maybe your argument in defense to DBS isn't "...but Zee" every 30 minutes. Like I said I don't think DBZ is perfect. In fact, I watched the original DB before DBZ so it was weird how people acted like people weren't shooting laser beams out their hands before. Honestly, I just want an actual sequel to DBZ not some shitty midquel. I reaally want a story without Goku so even DBO excuse plot was more interesting.

>Confirmed spoilers are out, that was the starting point of this entire sequence of posts.

That sounds retarded but this is Toei that we talking about.

>>803690

Are you a crossboarder, or why do you constantly use games as examples?

This is /a/ and not /v/.

>You are really just parroting Plagues of Gripes.

I didn't even know who that was before googeling, why are you following e-celebs?

You're showing signs of extreme newfaggotry, I would recommend that you lurk more.

>First, excuses.

That long running anime vary heavily in their animation quality is common knowledge.

Which is something you would be aware of, if you would actively watch anime.

>is definitely worse than DBZ

It isn't, when was the last time you watched a DBZ episode?

The Kefla and Aniraza fight were better animated than any big fight in DBZ.

>Maybe your argument in defense to DBS isn't "...but Zee" every 30 minutes.

I only wrote one line saying that DBS isn't significantly worse than DBZ, which triggered you so extremely that you started this entire argument about DBZ and DBS.

>>803694

>It isn't

We aren't going anywhere if your argument is just going to be "nuh uh".

>That long running anime vary heavily

EXCUSES

>>803717

>We aren't going anywhere if your argument is just going to be "nuh uh".

You started this with the statement that DBS is inferior to DBZ because of it's "shitty animation.

>DBS is definitely inferior to DBZ for the ff reasons:

>• Shitty animation

But you yourself haven't provivded anything to back this up.

I provided examples of bad animation in DBZ (Cell vs Goku) and good animation in DBS (Kefla vs Goku, Aniraza vs U7). Another example is SS3 Goku vs Buu (DBZ), which had multiple terrible animated scenes.

What the fuck do you expect? A 50 page breakdown of the animation in DBZ & DBS?

>EXCUSES

Do you think that repeating yourself like a broken cassette recorder gives you credibility?

That's a reality of the animation industry, lurk more or go back to /v/.

You clearly have no interest in a proper discussion, or lack the capability for it.

I have already wasted enough time with your retardation.

This "discussion" is already borderline off-topic, and this is therefore my last comment for this "talk".

>>803724

>Do you think that repeating yourself like a broken cassette recorder gives you credibility?

That doesn't change the fact that DBS has shitty animation.

>That's a reality of the animation industry,

DBZ never gotten that bad that often.

Discounting that what they animate also looks stupid like Goku's and Beerus' shitty dragon auras.

>>802733

>Freeza becoming a little girl

If he became a little girl, I'm pretty sure he'd spend all day, every day, fulfilling his dream: Styling his hair.

>>803804

>Frieza hates the Saiyans because he's bald

>>803571

>it's not like DBS is significantly worse than DBZ post Freeza

That would be true if it didn't get some of the laziest elements in DBZ and only made them worse

>>803633

>doesn't look any worse

The animation itself isn't bad but it looks washed out

>Why did tournament arcs stop being interesting

The characters got really, really boring

>Vegeta is literaly fan service incarnate

If he wasn't the Prince of all Jobbers

>>803788

>Hypocrisy

<All of the bad parts of DBS shouldn't be used against it but DBZ should be looked at as a whole

ARBITRARY CUT OFF POINT

>>803870

>Why must Dragon Ball discussion be so awful anywhere no matter what? Why is proper civil discussion about this franchise seemingly impossible?

It is popular but not well written. That is the only reason that it needs.

DBS is just an idea sprung up from a movie. While I do think that he is responsible for a lot of decisions, I suspect that it was made mostly made under Toei's supervision. While DB and DBZ were based on Toriyama's manga, DBS is straight to anime with a supplementary manga to pretend that it isn't just GT. They decided to largely move away from numbers and stick to different hair colors just to pretend that Goku didn't essentially went SSJ7. I'm not surprised that a lot people here wanted the series to end at points where Goku fucking dies. Is Goku suppose to leave a legacy or is he just going to live forever?

>>803902

Goku is a worldwide cultural icon. They literally cannot retire him because Dragon Ball would not even be a quater of what it is if Goku were to be retired. It's as expecting Disney to not use Mickey or Pokemon to not use Pikachu anymore, it's not gonna happen. It didn't even happen back then when Toriyama tried to phase him with Gohan and even back then people abhorred the idea of Uub, though I'd say Uub's design was a big part of this. There's no way it is gonna happen now.

And it's actually worrying because when you get to it, there's so much more you can do when End of Z comes closer and closer in. The cast is getting old too, Goku is forty something or so right now for example so use that as reference for everyone else ages. What'll be next? I don't think people will be interested much on the adventures of grandpa Goku visiting the graves of everyone he knew and loved.

> I suspect that it was made mostly made under Toei's supervision.

This is not that far from the truth, and it is the reason Super feels to disconnected and like pieces haphazardly glued together. It's practically a mish-mash of ideas and concepts between Toriyama, Toyotaro and Super Staff all under Toriyama's "supervision".

>>803912

>all under Toriyama's "supervision".

At this point, that sounds like Toriyama constantly saying "Sure, whatever.".

I used to have some faith on DBS when the manga significantly deviated from the anime on the Zamasu arc and going as far as adding a different power up for Future Trunks in the form of his Supreme Kai apprenticeship. Also, I heard that Toyotaro said that the manga was going to end the Zamasu arc differently from the anime (I can't find the source but I think that it was Twitter.). While the manga version is better by virtue of not having Goku Black inexplicitly recover from every attack and not having Goku Black get a Dimension-cutting Pink Ki Scythe that never really get used beyond its introduction which Goku Black learns from the magic power of cutting your own wrist, it still ends with Goku pressing the kill everything button. To be fair, he was going to eventually press the button seeing as he given it in the beginning of the arc. At the very least, the manga introduced the U12 time machine so it wasn't just Zamasu fucking with a timeline which the team decided to destroy.

My point is that the manga is reluctant to deviate from the anime in a way that becomes a different story. It is fine with fixing plot holes like how the timeline in the anime makes no fucking sense because it involves Goku triggering Zamasu when he only visited Zamasu because of Goku Black. Or making Goku less directly responsible for ToP (and explaining why there isn't a ToP in Future Trunks' timeline) which faggots keep saying that it is in character because Goku is "selfish" (If that is true, why did Toriyama went to great lengths absolve Goku of sin?). It also changed the opening tournament to a Battle of the GoDs which serves as an explanation why they have "those rules" in ToP. However the biggest sign to this theory is Caulifla.

Toriyama in an interview introduced the concept of S-Cells as the explanation for Saiyans getting the SSJ form. The problem with this explanation is how doesn't really explain anything except for one thing which I will explain later. It doesn't explain why Goku, Gohan, or any U6 Saiyan didn't get the SSJ form earlier. Why didn't Goku get the SSJ form when Krillin died the first time. People assumed that it was because Goku needed to be stronger but the S-Cells were used to also explain why Goten and Trunks were SSJs in such a young age (something about inheriting S-Cells). Prior to that, it was assumed that Goten and Trunks were SSJs because they were conceived by SSJs which didn't happen before in the series so it wasn't like "Future Gohan should have told Future Trunks about those back tingles instead asking him to get angry.". It also doesn't explain why no U6 Saiyan has turn SSJ prior to Cabba. The only thing that it explains or justify is back-tingles. We are never going to get a plot where someone kills a Saiyan and drink the S-Cells from their spines to get the SSJ form so it is just there to justify that stupid scene in the anime. In the manga, Caulifla gets her SSJ form off-screen neither confirming or disproving back-tingles in the manga's canon. It makes me think someone working on the manga didn't like that idea but didn't want to step on the anime's toes. The same thing with the three punches to destroy the universe bullshit from the BotG arc (It showed the Supreme Kai's planet shaking like in the anime.) Compare this to DBO, where Toriyama insisted that Korin be blue, Namekians have four fingers, and the Yardrats looking lame.

Honestly, the Zamasu arc is the best arc in DBS due to not being a movie plot and not being a tournament arc. It is still terrible but it had a mystery (which was fucking obvious and used the Super Mcguffins but still) and it genuinely was surprising that there were two Zamasu's. The manga really should have let Future Trunks defeat Zamasu. Maybe say that the SSJ Rage was because his Supreme Kai apprenticeship or have him become the Supreme Kai temporarily and get a power up. Have Goku be about to press the button but stop only for him to press the button by accident when it is all over.

People say that Goten and Trunks should have been in ToP. In the manga, it was Vegeta who was against them joining. While it is never really stated why Vegeta was against it, I assume that it is because 1) they are too childish 2) they essentially have to fight people that just protecting their "universe." I don't know about the anime and I don't really care.

>>803912

>The cast is getting old too, Goku is forty something or so right now for example so use that as reference for everyone else ages. What'll be next? I don't think people will be interested much on the adventures of grandpa Goku visiting the graves of everyone he knew and loved.

They will just not age like the Simpsons.

>>803967

They stopped aging back in the Cell saga. The last time Bulma showed her age was shortly after Frieza. Goku stopped showing his age as soon as he got back from Namek, but it was stated that saiyans don't age as quickly and they live longer than humans. The only person in DB that was hit really hard by age is Chichi. Holy fuck, she got so old so quickly. I think the last time she was youthful was during the Jr saga in DB.

MOVIE PREDICTION, SCREEN CAP AND BULLY AND/OR WORSHIP ME IN DECEMBER

>Frieza wins tournament

>Wishes to go back to the time of the radditz saga with all his memories

>Trains to achieve Fabulous freiza again

>Gos to earth for the dragonballs and revenge

>Goku recovering from beating vegeta, has no concept of super saiyan. still using nyoibo and flying on a fucking cloud like a chump

>Freiza beats everyone and takes over the world rather than destroy it to 'make the monkeys suffer'

>All seems lost but gokus body remembers ultra instinct because like jiren its 'stronger than time itself' and linearity has no meaning to angel tier power

>redoes the namek showdoen but Ultra Instinct repalces super saiyan for him

>meanwhile asshole saiyan saga vegeta feels some strange urge to rescue the z fighters and bulma in particular. Shes about to die and he screams 'my bulma' and becomes this timelines first super saiyan in a corny 'love trumps time travel bullshit' because those japs love destiny and romance like that.

>goku remembers his future as the fight goes on

>freiza is beaten

>they wish to restore the original timeline with the dragonballs but shenlong can only bring back the destroyed universe, not undo this new one made by the super dragonballs

>the characters are all restored to the tournament point and in another nod to namek goku who remembers both timelines thanks to ultra instcint goes 'freiza you fool!' and kills him moments after hes brought back.

>this creates that 4th green ring that made time travel outlawed and leads to the REMOVE NINGEN arc which leads to zenos meeting goku which leads to the tournament creating a closed loop. with one difference: goku can no longer become a super saiyan, only ultra instinct.

>all the tournament fighters shake hands and go home, with vegeta feeling some strange need to make sure bulma is okay and all seems fine.

>final tease is goku losing SSJ and SSGSS in all this fuckery wakes up the spirit of the first super saiyan/the true super saiyan god toriyama has been teasing

>starting spring next year: Dragonball Ultra

its not what i want to happen. Its what i expect knowing toriyama.

>>804233

>All seems lost but gokus body remembers ultra instinct because like jiren its 'stronger than time itself' and linearity has no meaning to angel tier power

>meanwhile asshole saiyan saga vegeta feels some strange urge to rescue the z fighters and bulma in particular. Shes about to die and he screams 'my bulma' and becomes this timelines first super saiyan in a corny 'love trumps time travel bullshit' because those japs love destiny and romance like that.

That sounds really homo. On whether that is accurate... no comment.

From what I heard, Toriyama was barely involved in the DBS anime just the movies, BotG and RoF. However, he is planning on supervising the new movie. Too bad I don't give a shit about the first Super Saiyan. I can't believe someone would be gay enough to refer to Toriyama's S-Cell explanation as "scientific."

>>804245

Toriyama provides a rough outline on which the anime is based.

He also provides some feedback to Toei.

Jiren's current character is entirely on Toriyama, who rejected the talkative "hero of justice" version that Toei had planned.

From a recent DBS interview:

Takami: In sensei‘s initial rough draft, there was no information indicating Jiren’s personality. Since the tough opponents in Dragon Ball Super up until then had been nihilistic, cool characters like Hit or Zamasu, we thought it might be best to make Jiren very talkative, so we came up with the background of him being a hero of justice. Jiren was central to this squadron of heroes.

Nakamura: When we suggested that to Toriyama-sensei, he replied that “Jiren is a character who doesn’t speak.” It was then that Toriyama-sensei sent us the backstory that his parents and martial arts master had been killed. He said that Jiren was this type of character, in contrast to Hit or Zamasu.

Full interview: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/dragon-ball-official-site-the-artisans-who-made-the-universe-survival-arc/

>>804249

I heard about that too but there was a vast difference in quality with the BotG movie and DBS arc. Or maybe the script just isn't meant to be several episodes long and Toei also fucking sucks.

>>804249

Why not let Jiren be more talkative and heroic? Hit was already stoic and Zumasu loved to hear himself talk. The backstory was as hell and done before much better in series like YYH where Taguro throws away his humanity after his failure to protect his students. Even then, a part of Taguro wanted to be saved, but he needed someone strong enough to do it and Yusuke was that person.

>>804288

>Even then, a part of Taguro wanted to be saved, but he needed someone strong enough to do it and Yusuke was that person.

Quite the opposite really. He wanted to be punished and wanted to be proven wrong. After dying, he explicitly asked to be sent to the worst part of hell. Sensui also wanted to be punished but his terminal illness makes it seem like he was in a hurry. It really hinges on him watching the Black tape and turning to an edgelord.

>>804357

>They were punished

I agree that they both felt the need to be punished for their crimes, but I still feel that they were both saved in the end. Toguro became the demon he hated so much, and he no longer had his humanity. Once Yusuke took him on at 100%, his body finally gave out and Yusuke showed that he didn't have to throw away his humanity to do it. Of course, Yusuke ended up being part demon, which fucked that all up in the end. Toguro still needed to be punished for all of the evils he did after he took on that demonic body, which is why he went to hell. I'm sure he wanted to be punished for what he put Genkai through as well. He threw away the woman he loved for more power and he even ended up killing her in the end. I doubt that's something he could really just brush away. He explicitly didn't kill Kuabara when he easily could have, which showed that he still had some heart in him.

Sensui works better with the final arc in the manga, where the spirit world is responsible for letting demons loose in the human world. Sensui was just some dumb idealistic kid, who was really good at killing demons. He ran into a den of humans fucking demons and other nasty shit and then that fucked his mind up something viscous. In the end, he was too black and white with his view of the world. King Enma had a lot to do with that by bringing in demons to cause trouble, but Sensui was going to have to come to terms with that eventually. Raizen taking over and demolishing Sensui is still so anticlimactic years later. It was such a major ass-pull and Yusuke really should have earned that win like the one he had with Toguro.

>>804427

Perhaps, it'll be that cliffhanger everyone says is going to happen? If he wishes for immortality, the only one that can kill him is Zeno as the gods of destruction couldn't touch him before he regenerated. Of course, Zeno also just wiped out the entire universe that Zumasu was in along with erasing him. Frieza could just wish for immortality. He'd be safe from Beerus, but Whis could still trap him. I guess Frieza could wish to take the Grand Priest's place or the place of an angel. He'd be able to manipulate Zeno at that distance. It's obvious that they're going to do something with Frieza, but there's so much that they can do that they're probably just going to select the laziest option.

Reminder that Frieza won't be able to wish for fuck-all because:

1. Wish has to be spoken in the language of the Gods. You really think any Angel is gonna go "Okay, I'll tell the dragon you want to rule over all universes, no biggie"

2. He's gonna run out of time because he spent so much power just as he's making his wish because Toriyama finds shit like this to make a perfect gag

>>804551

I think he's either going to get immortality and the protection from Beerus that comes with it or he'll ask to made a god of destruction over his own universe

>>804644

I think Zumasu was supposed to be a Sensui type, where his point of view is absolutely black and white. He thought the gods were at the pinnacle and the mortals were trash that ruined their planets. Then Goku shows up and ruins him and then he wants to kill all mortals. His motivation could have been a lot better. He wanted to essentially perform the duties of a god of destruction, so why not have him go that route? Have Zumasu go around slaughtering the weak of the universes in hopes of raising the mortal level. It would then play into the next arc, where Zeno himself is going to wipe out the weaker universes. DBS really needs time away from the anime, so that it can plan this stuff out better. The anime has some gems here and there, but it's on a deadline and that means it's moving too fast for its own good. Then again, Toriyama is the one that wanted to make Jiren the strong silent type rather than having him speak more, which would have been much better. Jiren really needs to be more outspoken and more about justice and helping others. Hell, he said that he would return to his universe if there was trouble. I just hope they give him a better backstory in the manga.

>>804678

>I think Zumasu was supposed to be a Sensui type, where his point of view is absolutely black and white.

First of all, what is with that spelling of Zamasu? Is that some joke that I'm not getting?

Second, Sensui is literally insane. He has multiple personality disorder. He needed a separate violent personality to do most of the dirty work. His black and white personality wasn't only thing that drove him to this. His black and white view of the world was already shattered when he spared the demon which ended up being his boyfriend. Then he saw what happen in the Black Black Club. Then he decided to watch the Black Chapter which really warped his perspective of humanity. What drove him to that his overzealous desire to punish evil.

Zamasu on the other hand isn't depicted to actually think that he is doing the right thing. He keeps saying it but you can replace it with some coy monologue about how the strong should rule the weak and it wouldn't change much. He could have been depicted as someone that pities mortals and wants end their suffering or someone who just wants to get it over with and wipe the mortals off of the multiverse. He just sounds like someone making up excuses to do bad things. That thing about why he picked Goku's body was stupid and how he started crying was also stupid. When Captain Ginyu took someone's body, he doesn't have all of their moves mastered but Zamasu just needs his ass kicked to get SSJ Rosé.

Would it be nice if the actual villain was Gowasu and Rumsshi? Saying they are tired of the limitations of jobs and want control of both creation and destruction. They wish to fuse to become the ultimate being or something like that. Basically, anything besides "Evil Goku." It was never really explained why a Supreme Kai had earnings to permanently fuse two people. However, I really can't see how that is going to work.

>DBS really needs time away from the anime, so that it can plan this stuff out better.

A little bit of extra thought would drastically change the quality. Who thought that it was a good idea to say that three punches from SSJG Goku and Beerus colliding was enough to destroy the universe when they have SSGSS in future?

>>804756

A low tier GoD and Kai going rogue would be way more interesting. You could still have it be in the future, just have the pair be apprentices that tried usurping their mentor's position or something.

>>804762

Still beg to question why would anyone would pull this shit with Zeno around to destroy all of creation. I just want Zamasu to be backstabed and be explained how much a retarded faggot he is that someone can make plan based on his predictable faggotry.

>>805149

Foot Kamehameha?

Honestly, do people really think Frieza was going to get a wish?

>>805178

> Foot Kamehameha?

Instant transmission is also a possibility, Goku can theoretically teleport to Frieza.

>>805209

>the very popular Dragon Ball Super comic drawn by Toyotaro (on sale now up through volume 5!) will keep on going as-is. I think there will also be story developments different from the TV show and the movie, so please look forward to that as well. I will be, too!

>–Akira Toriyama

At long last, he gave the green light for the anime and the manga to split off from one another. FMA did it and so did Trigun and they went in good directions. FMA had 2 animated series as well. It remains to be seen if we'll get some better storytelling from the manga, but this will hopefully not feel as rushed as the TOP has been. There were some solid gems in it (17), but it was moving way too fast for its own good.

every time krillin screams someone's name from the stand I want to gas myself

Just saw tonight's episode and I have to say, the budget saving measures of the past few episodes were completely worth it.

>>805346

Yeah. Not enough to ruin the episode, but still dumb.

>>805290

The manga had perfect chance to do that at the Zamasu arc. The manga is still not complete shit unlike the anime.

>>805340

>>805355

>all this talk about good animation

If I still watched the show, I'll care a little more. However it seems like you can animate the show like shit for two arcs and more and people would just pretend that it never happened and continue sucking Toei's dick.

The first half had so much repeated looping. The second half had better direction but still came off pretty cheap.

17 surviving was cool, wish he and Frieza got a short flashback showing them dodge all the shit that's been going on.

>>805359

17 surviving surprised me because I thought they'd just go straight Frieza and Goku teaming. He must be a staff favourite.

San Salvador, El Salvador will also have an event showing the episode in around 3 hours. I predict riots.

>>805364

Vegeta is my favorite character and I wanted desperately for the final battle to be Goku/Vegeta (not Vegito) working together to defeat Jiren. But it just wasn't meant to be. What we're getting is still better than Goku soling it.

What I'm curious about the most is if they will actually redeem Freeza at the end.

Surprised Hit's timeghost didn't emerge to help out before he fades out.

I like to think Frieza shot Goku not because he wanted to save him, but because he was an easy target, and getting into safety was sort of just an unintended consequence

Not entirely sure what the point of extending this arc one more episode is, I guess it's alright if there's more Frieza and 17 though.

>>805355

WHO COULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT THE POWDER OF THE GODS COULD HAVE HAD SUCH A TOLL ON SOMEONE'S BODY? - a fucking angel

>>805391

Might just be hedging his bets, keep all the help they can get on stage. Also, the fucking announcer stating a vague, short time period. God damn.

I liked tonight's episode a lot. I really do look forward to how it will end. I don't think Frieza is going to betray anyone due to how the episode is titled, but I could be wrong. It does look like U7 will somehow get the win by either timing Jiren out or defeating him with teamwork in a way pretty similar to how majin buu was defeated. I would like that ending more than Goku soloing Jiren. Also, since Toriyama confirmed that the manga will continue past the anime, it looks like we're going to get a lot more Frieza and 17 due to how popular they are.

>>805360

It would have been really interesting to see all of the shit they had to avoid while staying hidden.

>>805361

17 was the mvp this tournament.

>>805368

It does look like they will redeem Frieza to some degree. I mean, it was obvious against Toppo that he can't do shit against Jiren. His survival depends entirely on two of them surviving towards the end. It actually looked like Frieza was doing a kamikazee attack when he exploded on Jiren in one of the scenes.

>>805394

He didn't think it would have been that bad on Goku's body. It kinda reminded me of when goku used kaioken against Vegeta on Earth.

>>805369

There's still time in the final episode for something unexpected to happen. Against Cell, it just took Vegeta's blast to distract Cell long enough for Gohan to get the win.

>>805391

I would agree, but 17 made it clear that it was up to them now that Goku was in terrible shape. Their plan is pretty obvious now. They were going to stay hidden and wait out the tournament somewhere, so that U7 would win if Goku lost. Frieza saving Goku seemed liked something intentional. He seemed pretty on edge once it became clear they would have to take on Jiren themselves. Frieza could have let Goku fall, but then he has to play hide-n-seek with someone who can just nuke the entire arena or what's left of it. Keeping their numbers up with Goku, even in his current shape, would give them better odds and especially since Goku is the only one among them that could take on Jiren.

They never showed Frieza hiding or passed out after he left the screen initially, even though everyone knew it'd be obvious he would show up again. I've figured out why; He and 17 were having a pleasant chat inside a crater while goku repeatedly rammed into Jiren. They bonded over their mutual inability to sense Ki. They couldn't show that without legitimately spoiling anything.

>>805400

>you know, I killed the bald one that keeps screaming in another timeline

>what a coincidence!

So when Jiren attacked the stands, why did Zeno or el padre grande not say anything. Is that really okay with them? And if he had killed them, wouldn't that disqualify Jiren?

>>805410

It's neat so it's safe?

>>805410

that part was really stupid. Nobody was at any risk unless Jiren could one shot a GoD. that wasn't even the first time an attack was fired at the stage, either

>>805414

Yeah but this attack was on purpose.

>>805417

It's completely irrelevant if it was intentional or not

I'm really conflicted about this. It's nice that they're actually making it a team effort, the whole point of the T.O.P. in the first place, but having the last stand be Freeza and #17 instead of Vegeta or any of the other regulars just screams "we're doing it for the marketing." Seriously, fuck that asspull. Would it've been too hard for Goku to just run up to Jiren while he was down and pull an embed related?

>>805436

I'm pretty sure in the past Yugi had visions of all his family dying during his first fight with freeza

>>805436

This is likely Toei's fault, Goku was never about the power of friendship.

Toriyama was always bothered by Toei's characterization of Goku.

He's just a guy who wants to fight strong opponents.

>>805437

And I'm pretty sure that was anime original.

>>805486

Ultra Instinct Popeye

>Goku doesn't get ringed out and just becomes a cripple, probably going to asspull a power later

>Both 17 and Frieza survived the nuclear apocalypse happening this entire time

>Seriously this fucking shitshow made exploding namek look like a field trip

>Jiren extremely weakened so they'll probably be able to fight him off with ease now

>Goku becoming 'I fight for my friends!' instead of just a battle maniac

>And fucking Jiren, being the most generic jobber I've ever seen, but who's really strong for some reason

fucks sake

>>805306

How did the mexicans convinced Toei to let them air DBS in parks/stadiums all over the country and for free nonetheless

>>805516

>How did the mexicans convinced Toei to let them air DBS in parks/stadiums all over the country and for free nonetheless

They didn't.

There was even a warning by the Japanese embassy, but they still didn't give a fuck.

>>805520

>firthy gaijin stearing our animu

>not even a decent one

<Poor ambassador-san has to report back that the spics told him to go himself

What a time to be alive.

>>805413

I like how they added the bend to exaggerate the force of the punch, but it just looks like Goku's literally punching Jiren in half, with Jiren's torso trying to crawl away like a Vietnam veteran.

>>805611

>Honestly, when Goku had his rupture and blood spurred out of his back, I thought that Frieza had betrayed him in order to get rid of him and the weakened Jiren all at once, claiming the wish for himself.

Yeah, this.

There were so many things they could have done different to make this better. What they did probably wasn't THE worst thing they could have done but it's pretty low on the scale.

>>805614

I thought ultra instinct was ultra INSTINCT, but Goku was talking and doing staredowns throughout the fights too. I dunno if those are things someone would do instinctively during a fight.

>>805619

Yeah, they talked it up last episode and made it seem he wasn't going to talk or anything. I figured Ultra Instinct was a form where you couldn't really do anything but dodge and attack. No room for thought or plans, just attacking and counter attacking until it's over. Might’ve even been a good reason for them to avoid using it because the Saiyans don't enjoy being taken out of the fight.

Wasn't UI going to not be a huge powerup but a state of mind to make you untouchable and penetrate through defence? So much for that.

>>805625

>Mexican football team makes a wallpaper with the team members Dragon Ball OC's

This is a weird timeline but I kinda like it

>>805619

This part pissed me off most. Ultra instinct started as Goku just focusing 100% of his attention on the fight and no grand standing. Mastering the offensive part of it should've just been him doing a nonstop beatdown. Instead he gloats and looks down at jiren long enough for it to punish him once again.

https://twitter.com/ErikaTamaura/status/975206149229248512

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phbGt_7Qvj8&t=2s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMzATVhwRAo&t=1s

https://twitter.com/ElDrGoku/status/975253090059345920

Watching these videos the public live streams at various places in Latin America made me realize how jaded I have become. Just look at the excitement and joy of these people. I'm really jealous of them I truly miss being able to become like this while watching anime.

When was the last time you got this happy while watching an anime episode? When was the last time you can say you felt joy of this level while watching something? Or doing anything at all?

>>805664

Mexicans are a very simple people

>>805664

I laughed pretty fucking hard at the stream we had earlier today. My sides were consistently in orbit.

>>805664

I still get excited with a lot of things. I'm playing Steins;Gate and several parts got me excited. I'm watching FOTNS for the first time and when I know a good part I know from the manga is coming up I can feel the excitement build.

I don't need to jump on the sofa and get super hype like I did when I was a kid to demonstrate I'm excited.

>>805671

>I don't need to jump on the sofa and get super hype like I did when I was a kid to demonstrate I'm excited.

But that is the best kind of excited, the kind where you lose all kind of restraint and stop giving a fuck about everyone and everything because the hype is too much for you.

>>805664

I would be this excited if it would just stop being terrible.

>>805471

Given the circumstances, fighting for your friends is a good reason during the tournament of power

>>805706

Wouldn't be the first time Goku loses it because someone goes for his friends, or family. Remember Krillin, twice? Or more recently, when Black gloated about killing Chi-Chi and Goten in his original timeline?

>>805611

>Either way, 17 just standing up and saying "Oh, I guess I survived my suicide attack" was stupid and cheapens his sacrifice. Doubly so, because they went out of their way to make the Grand Priest remark about how his death wasn't Jiren's fault in order to clear up potential fan questions and make everyone know that he was dead for realsies.

Were you surprised? They already pulled a death fake-out twice in Roshi and Vegeta.

>>805639

Sometimes for fighting, you want to stop and not do anything, not just so you don't burn out but to bait your opponent.

Notice how NONE of what I just said involves letting yourself get axe-kicked in a supposedly auto-dodge zen mode.

>>805664

>When was the last time you got this happy while watching an anime episode?

17 taking out not-Hatchiyack, Frieza trolling Frost out of existence, and Toppo ascending and going apeshit.

Also started watching Attack on Titan Season 2 and nearly lost my shit laughing at Reiner nonchalantly telling Erin that he was the Armored Titan, and that Bertolt was the Colossal Titan seemingly out of nowhere, then again immediately afterwards when the camera cut to Mikasa's thousand-yard stare, encapsulating my reaction to the bewildering scene.

Also Gurren Lagann.

>>805720

the worst possible taste

So what's the deal with Saiyans changing their eye and hair color?

You could argue that they have special transformations like Frieza, just instead of changing the phsyical form, they just change hair and eye color (or length in SSJ3) but Ultra Instinct is the deal-breaker here.

UI is something theoretically anyone can achieve, it's just very hard. The Angels can do it and the GoDs can do it too, so everyone should be able to.

But why does achieving UI change a Saiyan's hair color?

Wouldn't this also imply that every other SSJ transformation is nothing special at all and Saiyans are just the only race where you can really see it?

Or is it just a coincidence and UI turns every user's hair white if they have any?

>>806053

Maybe it's unique to the person using it and their personal energy? Who knows?

Who the fuck cares about this? Why bother with pointless questions? This is "Who changes the Batmobile's tires?" Tier of autistic retardation.

>>806059

he probably pays someone to do it

>>806053

Saiyans have hair made of pure energy so it changes based on their current energy type, it's why in dragonball everytime someone tried to cut or style gokus hair his hair killed them

NEW ANIMATION STYLE FUCKERS, ALSO BROLY/SUPER SAIYAN GOD CONFIRMED MAYBE?

>https://twitter.com/ToeiAnimation/status/976155517125971968

>>806053

>Angels all have white hair

>UI is the power of the gods

>UI turns your hair white

>Angels confirmed for actual gods of the multiverse

>>806104

It's still not gonna be the SBR of DB, is it?

>>806104

>that bouncy fluid animation

>that OG Dragon Ball style and color palette

It makes me almost forget this movie will probably cement S cells as 100% canon.

>>806104

Wow, they actually managed to make the animation/character design look somewhat decent, if only they could have managed that during the 100+ episodes of super

>>806283

The better question would be why Chi Chi got so fucking old so quickly in comparison to Bulma. She's younger than Bulma, but looked a decade older than her back in the Namek saga and it got worse as time went on.

>>806290

Because she's the most stressed out mother on Earth with her husband dying regularly and her sons almost dying regularly.

Bulma is fine because she doesn't give a fuck.

>>806283

>regularly gets the D from a guy who can crush mountains with his bare hands.

Given the timeline, the only point where Goku and Chichi had the time to make a baby was during the week where Goku was maintaining SSj constantly. And that's even stretching it a bit.

Either she's tough enough to get some super saiyan pipe laid in her, or Goten's bio-dad is actually Vegeta or Gohan.

>>806295

Twice isn't regularly. Almost all of Goku's fighting friends died just as much if not more.

And what makes her look old is how she presents herself. She dresses like an old housewife. Bulma dresses like a bitch out to cruise dick half her age.

>>806308

Also, Bulma probably has a full team of Swiss cosmetic surgeons.

In the manga, Krillin and Tien ShinHan got eliminated before they could do anything. Frost is again just a faggot and the writers thought that having Frieza eliminating Frost is a nice "take that you pale imitation" moment which is stupid because they made Frost. The only way to save that is Frost genuinely becoming a good person after the tournament after seeing how awful Frieza was. I was afraid that this was going to happen. Toyotaro seems dedicated to persevering the power scaling to the point of keeping characters useless. Future Trunks didn't defeat Zamasu because apparently the anime's shitty asspulls are the only way to do it.

>>805619

>I thought ultra instinct was ultra INSTINCT, but Goku was talking and doing staredowns throughout the fights too. I dunno if those are things someone would do instinctively during a fight.

>>805627

>Yeah, they talked it up last episode and made it seem he wasn't going to talk or anything. I figured Ultra Instinct was a form where you couldn't really do anything but dodge and attack. No room for thought or plans, just attacking and counter attacking until it's over. Might’ve even been a good reason for them to avoid using it because the Saiyans don't enjoy being taken out of the fight.

>Wasn't UI going to not be a huge powerup but a state of mind to make you untouchable and penetrate through defence? So much for that.

The series still couldn't convincingly animate the characters in way that it seems like they couldn't fly.

they can't do anything right

>come up with a good form that just makes someone into an instinctive god at fighting, rather than just stronger

>goku masters it

>it just makes him stronger

>>806365

Does anyone have a webm of goku sliding down a cliff before kicking that Kefla cunt

>>806363

>In the manga, Krillin and Tien ShinHan got eliminated before they could do anything. Frost

To be fair, Frost did get a lot more screen time and he did do a lot more than just pop people as they were near the edge. He actually did take on universe 9 by himself and nearly wiped it out. Of course, Frieza was shown as no-nonsense as he took out the remaining fighters from u9. There's still a chance that Frost can learn from Frieza's betrayal. He didn't get himself erased, so I'm assuming more is going to be done with him. Gohan and Piccolo got to do a bit more as well. Roshi is still around, so I'm assuming he's going to have a bigger part as well.

>>806395

Roshi is still around because a universal survival tournament isn't allowed to have any stakes.

>>806395

Yes, the manga so far made it look more like 40 minute team free for all instead of everyone vs U7 (this is still a retarded idea). Hopefully, the lingering plot thread established in the manga like Belmod's ulterior motives doesn't get ignored for parity with the anime. Seriously, people expected the tournament to be interrupted and the true final boss to be "El Grande Padre" instead we got Batman v Superman. Knowing the manga, U6 Saiyans will at least not be going toe to toe with SSJG Goku and faggots will call it more proof that the anime is better than the manga.

>>806517

>Reminder that Goku has never won a tournament

Wrong. Think again.

>>806519

Name one tournament he won.

His fight against Piccolo ended with the tourney itself being destroyed, so that doesn't count.

>>806520

>The judge of the tournament declaring that he is the champion doesn't count

The ring surface was destroyed but so long as you don't step outside that area you aren't eliminated, otherwise being smashed through the surface would have been an elimination, but it never was. Besides, even if he was out of bounds, the announcer makes that determination and he declared Goku the winner

>>806517

>>806520

>>806535

I thought later on in the DBZ series Goku actually commented on how he never won a tournament though and how he regretted it a little, but couldn't find one he considered a challenge back on Earth?

>>806541

This wasn't spoilered before, was it? Is it because it's 3D?

The teaser looks weird to me, I don't mind the art style, but Goku's warm up and his general appearance doesn't sit right with me. He's never bounced around like that, it almost looks mocapped. His face looks more youthful than ever. I don't know how to put it, but he looks more like a modern shonen character than ever.

>>806556

Well, it takes place after the Universe reset at the end of the Tournament of Power.

>>801640

There are plenty of points where Dragonball "should" have ended because Toriyama is a hack who writes on the fly.

>>805400

It was obvious they were still in because they never showed up in the stands with everyone else that was eliminated from the ToP. I think it's pretty dumb all the other people didn't realize this, they always made a big deal when someone was eliminated, but when Frieza and 17 dropped, nothing happened.

>>806615

Frieza was obvious but with 17 there could've been nothing left to show up in the stands.

>>806615

>they always made a big deal when someone was eliminated, but when Frieza and 17 dropped, nothing happened.

Yeah, and a shot of Zeno pushing the elimination button on his GodPad. That happened for neither Frieza nor 17, despite 17 supposedly being "killed". That was a really big fuckin' clue right there that both of them were still in it.

I just knew 17 would be back somehow. And when it happened I was disappointed.

>>806246

>It makes me almost forget this movie will probably cement S cells as 100% canon.

I don't know why retards actually liked this explanation going as far to say that it isn't comparable to midichlorines. I'm starting to think that these retards are conditioned to be shills. If midichlorines were introduced in the new trilogy and S-Cells were introduced in DBGT, a group of faggot pseudo-shills would defend midichlorines as "making sense" yet accept S-Cells as being retarded.

>>806633

I wonder if we'll even get an explanation as to how he survived? He did look at Frieza shortly before exploding, so it looked like he was planning something. Were they just hiding inside of the arena somewhere? How did they survive Jiren straight up nuking the entire arena? It makes sense that any survivors would stay hidden for as long as they could. It's not like there's anyone in the tournament that come close to Goku or Jiren. Vegeta was well aware of this, which is why he at least tried to break Jiren's arm as a means of making him an easier target for the others.

17 and Frieza aren't retarded. They must know that they aren't going to last even against a weakened Jiren. From their last line, it's clear that their goal is to survive as long as possible and either force a tie or a win due to greater numbers. Only one of them needs to make it too now that Frieza kept Goku from falling out of bounds. During the preview, it looked like Frieza nuked himself against Jiren. It would make sense that they would consider a kamikaze attack against Jiren. Even if they don't actually suicide against Jiren, 17 could focus on defense and Frieza on offense. At this point, they just need to make it for 60 seconds or so.

>>806723

Mitochlorians were just George Lucas jerking himself off. They really only appeared in the Phantom Menace and were quickly dropped due to how stupid they were as an explanation. Are s-cells just supposed to be saiyan cells? Why even bring attention to the obvious? It doesn't add anything and just sounds like Toriyama is just wanking himself off.

>>806104

Still looks cheaper than a fucking Pokemon movie.

>>806749

That explanation is so dumb, but letting Kid Trunks and Goten go ssj was dumb as well. Although, Trunks going ssj makes a bit more sense as Vegeta more than likely started training him ragged from a young age. They really should have left it at a strong-enough saiyan getting angry enough can go super. Caulifa and Kale were both said to be some of the strongest saiyans in their universe. It wouldn't be much of a stretch for them to go super. Having said that, the back tingling bit was really stupid. They should have just used some event from their past to get them pissed enough. Why they never went super before-hand can be hand-waved away by stating u6 saiyans had it easy in comparison to u7 saiyans and thus had no reason to go super.

>>806749

I remember when Toriyama originally said that female saiyans couldn't go SSJ. Seeing how Caulifa and Kale turned out and how they achieved said forms, makes me wish that had stayed true...

>>806788

He said it was because he couldn't think of a way to make them look good in SSJ.

>>806774

>but letting Kid Trunks and Goten go ssj was dumb as well. Although, Trunks going ssj makes a bit more sense as Vegeta more than likely started training him ragged from a young age.

Uhh no, Vegeta didn't do that. At most, he let him into the gravity chamber with him. He didn't even knew that Trunks could go SSJ. I was just assumed that Goten and Trunks inherited the ability to turn SSJ but S-Cells weren't necessary to explain that.

>Why they never went super before-hand can be hand-waved away by stating u6 saiyans had it easy in comparison to u7 saiyans and thus had no reason to go super.

So U6 Saiyans never got angry in their entire history? That sounds retarded.

I made up an explanation but just don't go all "<muh headcanon" on me. I know that it isn't canon.

Hard Requirements: Saiyan ancestry (unknown threshold)

>Requirements for activation:

>Anger (preferably righteous anger)

>A need and a desire for strength

>Suffering (mostly as a result of being weak)

>Sufficient power level

>The will to fight

>Acknowledgement that his current "form" isn't strong enough (knowledge of SSJ makes this step easier due to the mindset requirement to meet the previous requirement contradicts this. Being able to turn into a great ape can make this harder because usually it is enough.)

I added that last part to basically mean that Goku had to admit that he'll never get strong enough to defeat Freiza yet he isn't willing to back down.

Requirements for inheritance:

>Having a SSJ parent. (If they want to keep Pan from being SSJ, just say that male and female SSJ are technically different forms due to slight brain differences and it must be unlocked separately. Or say that she inherited her father's potential unlock. It was clear that GT wanted to go with something about her being quarter Saiyan. People cite Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr. but that was just faggotry added to force a new Goku after writing Goku's final good bye. A better case would be Bulla/Bra which is only half-Saiyan conceived after Vegeta became a SSJ.)

>>806788

Reminder that Mary Sues have existed without 3rd wave feminism.

>>806808

I want to believe everything you said.

Because it's exactly what I wanted to hear.

>>806808

>He never said that. He said that the transformation might be different if a female uses it. And he had no idea how to draw a SSJ Pan, apparently.

I'm pretty sure he said that he couldn't make females go super saiyan because he didn't know how do draw them. Also, you're full of bullshit.

>>806999

It's just a very early trailer. It might not look like that at all.

>>806999

>They add a single extra shade to their characters

>It's so much better than the usual shit we're used to that we love it

We live a very sad life.

>>807058

This essentially. Shit is so bad that so much as an extra bit of shading is the best we can hope for now.

So, will we make a new thread now? Or wait until the new episode drops?

>>807091

It might be best to wait until after the last episode airs tomorrow/tonight. It does feel kinda weird saying that. The manga is going to continue, so the threads will still have a purpose. However, the anime is going on hiatus for who knows how long. Hopefully, this means the manga can go at its own pace now.

>>807058

It's not just shading, it's also the character design.

Takahashi largely ignores the character designs from Yamamuro.

Perfect example is the hair, which has much more detail in Takahashi episodes.

The faces also tend to be more angular, similar to DBZ.

Heck, I am really happy that Toei decided to give the animation director position for 131 to Takahashi + Yamamuro.

They clearly have seen how positive the response to Takahashi's stlye was.

Well that was about what I expected, except Zeno basically forcing the winner to wish back the universes, and now he has no real motivation for doing anything in that arc.

Goku not being able to keep UI is understandable, even though in universe the experience should have been imprinted on him by his saiyan heritage so that he should at least be able to attempt to recreate it.

>>807542

Yeah, I found it weird that Vegeta didn't power up to the Uguu Blue form to rub it in Goku's face.

>>807561

I think it was done that way because it looks better as a final image for Super. >>807519 It would look a bit odd for Vegeta to go perfected blue against Goku in that shot.

>>807534

I liked that Zeno was hoping that the winner would wish back the other universes or else he was going to erase them all. The big thing about trust made sense as well. Frieza had no reason not to trust Goku. It's not like he's ever really lied to him before like Vegeta has. In the end, Frieza, 17 and Goku trusted each other enough that they were willing to sacrifice themselves to win the tournament. 17 was willing to gamble not ever seeing his kids again. Frieza could have tried to be the last man standing, but he settled with just being wished back to life and he was even rewarded for his faith by Beerus. Goku was just being Goku and all three gave it their all to beat Jiren. In the end, U11 had no regrets. They tried their hardest and even that clown god of destruction was moved to tears at Jiren's performance.

I also think u7 is in a better position storywise for Frieza to be back as emperor. It could even mean the return of a Ginyu-esque force in the future.

>>807583

I think it'd look fine.

If I have any criticisms of the end it is Frieza pontificating long enough for Jiren to counterattack in the beginning, but at the same time that is far from outside of Frieza's character so whatever.

The whole episode was amazing. It was so much better than I predicted it would be. That final fight is bound to wind up being one of my favorites if not my all around favorite in the series. I've watched this thing 3 times already. I honestly didn't think they would play that so well.

This is the first time I've seen some main characters beat the shit out of someone who just got one of those friendship boosts.

>>806999

I have not been paying attention at all the last few months. Why is Goku's hair red?

Interesting is that 17 said, that he wishes all erased universes to come back.

This would mean Universe 13-18 which were erased long before the ToP would exist again.

>>807591

>That final fight is bound to wind up being one of my favorites if not my all around favorite in the series

Completely agree with this, the final fight scene was amazing.

I loved how all the characters were already beyond their limits and just keept fighting through sheer willpower.

>>807616

I also feel bad for Vegeta, but it's largely his own fault.

He is the person big on MUH SAIYAN PRIDE.

>>807627

It's Super Saiyan God.

A form a Saiyan can achieve through some bullshit ritual

>>807629

>>807616

Don't forget that Vegeta is at that second placing his hopes and dreams in the hands of the two people who fucked him up the absolute most.

So how would you rank everyone's performance in the tournament?

I'd say 17 was the MVP while Tenshinhan/Krillin are at the absolute bottom.

>>807647

17>Goku=Frieza>Vegeta>18=Roshi=Gohan=Piccolo>>>Krillin=Tien

I don't remember what Tien even did in the anime. I kinda remember Krillin doing something, but I forget what it was. They were both just tossed aside in the manga. Roshi was pretty useful in that the mafuba could seal much stronger fighters. 18 and 17 were both androids and had limitless energy reserves. Piccolo and Gohan were essentially a team on their own and they managed to take out u6. Vegeta was among the strongest and even took out Toppo. Frieza, Goku and 17 were the top members of the tournament. They all did more than their fair share and went well beyond their capabilities.

>>807665

Tien multiplied and fell off the stage or something.

That's all I remember

Wish it did something a little clever with the super dragon ball wish since everyone saw that coming even before the tournament even started. Still the same outcome but done in a different way like wishing all those erased to be brought back to life on Universe 7 since it has like only 32 races on it with a lot of empty space. I guess that is moot since Zeno did all this to test them.

Weird that 18 was concerned that 17 didn't wish to have a world tour with his family over "saving all the erased universes". Especially since, having a world tour could easily have been done by Bulma since she is rich, which was shown in the ending credits. I guess this was the reason that 17 was made into a wildlife protector for this moment. It was an okay end but a few thing irked me as it ended.

They really didn't do anything with Gotenk's and Trunks. They only thing I remember them doing was they went on a filler episode where they got taken to another planet where Vegeta gets baby'd to fight a sludge cloner. Also, that mention of villains like we had that many. The only notable villain we had was Zamasu and Frieza and one was a returning one that was a redone from the movie. The others were Beerus and two tournaments (one friendly competition over the Super Dragon Balls and the other with Zeno overseeing the erasure of another) which I'd hardly call villains. Their end outcomes could lead to destruction but their motivations were not villainous to an extent. Do we also add the filler enemies as well? That would bump it up a little with sludge cloner, that thing that possessed the actor and Arale who did the most destruction out of them all.

Lack of any major character deaths. Of course, that could be negated with the dragon balls but that was the point of them. The search for the dragon balls could lead to the discovery of other people or enemies that are also searching for dragon balls. That was what Z did with them but Super presents it like nobody is really out looking for them. It's treated as trivial that Bulma uses them for a raffle prize.

The only thing negated them is the powers that makes collecting them easy. Not the Dragon Ball Radar but Goku's Instant Transmission combined with the Radar. Beerus's interference when he's actually doing his job is also another problem. There's no one that has the power level to rival either Goku or Beerus but they don't have to at the start, just enough to last long enough to get their hands on the dragon balls or the super dragons. It might be a lack of knowledge of the dragon balls themselves but I was sure the Namekian's were well known according the Frieza. Of course they are hidden but you'd think there would be aliens searching for them, even if they know their planet was destroyed. Try to find at least a survivor since having any wish granted (determined by the level of the dragon ball) seems like something you'd want to have. When the next iteration or continuation of Super happens, I hope they have a villain this time and takes some risk.

>>807689

>. It might be a lack of knowledge of the dragon balls themselves

That's likely it, even Freeza didn't know about the Dragon Balls until he heard the audio from Vegeta's Earth trip.

And Freeza seems to be highly knowledgable about Universe 7 (knew about Instant Transmission and the Yadrats).

>>807629

>This would mean Universe 13-18 which were erased long before the ToP would exist again.

Does it also mean Zamasu Future Universe that the other Zen oh is from would exist again, too?

>>807629

>I loved how all the characters were already beyond their limits and just keept fighting through sheer willpower.

What I loved about it is that there was no more pussyfooting around. Everyone just wanted to knock everyone off in a last-ditch effort to survive. It was great. No more bullshit. Just win.

I really liked the last episode, but something just annoyed me: the very end. See, everyone knows how you end a modern anime series' final episode. It's a formula. You do an ending montage while the full version of the opening song plays, with the end credits tactfully placed on it. Simple.

So what did Toei do for the end of Super? Less of a montage, and more like a sparse clipshow, but using only the TV-cut of the song. Then they just crammed in the normal end credits afterwards, completely killing the mood. They literally did only HALF of what they were supposed to do. Those lazy, cheap fuckers.

In fact, I would go so far as to call "lazy and cheap" the defining trait of Super; everything that happened was essentially just Dragonball Z, except with worse writing, worse animation, worse character designs, worse pacing, worse music, worse everything. Any excuse Toei has for this is just an excuse; technology has improved, marketing has improved, the fanbase is VASTLY larger. There is no reason it should have been worse than its predecessors, but for Toei using the technology to use shitty animators to give themselves a bigger profit. It's basically a meaningless cashgrab direct-to-video sequel of a well-loved children's movie, that Disney had some Korean studio make in its entirety. Did it have some good moments? Sure, but few and far between and vastly overshadowed by the bad parts, which weren't just bad but horrendous. The way this ending went just summed it up perfectly. They did only half of what they should.

Dragonball Super is "Studio is Lazy, Cheap Fuckers: The Anime", and that's all it will ever be remembered as.

Most of dragon ball super was not as good as dbz or db, but there were some decent episodes.

I liked pretty much everything with Hit. Episodes 113 to 116, 118, and 122 to the end were was as good as anything dragon ball has made. Lots of repeated animation, though.

I think that Super's finale surpassed all of the other db anime endings.

So, yeah, it surpassed all other dragon ball for the finale. I'm satisfied. I didn't think it would be able to surpass, nor did I expect the surpassing.

>>807837

I was satisfied with the ending, I think Frieza finally realized not to fuck with Earth and he'll be fine.

>>807844

The ending of Z was perfect if you just accidentally forget to watch the "after the 10-year-timeskip" episodes.

The ending of GT is hilarious as fuck, because it's a montage of Goku's memories AND VEGETA DOES NOT SHOW UP ONCE! That smug OP fucker literally forgot Vegeta existed. /ourprince/ indeed, forgotten as usual, even IN UNIVERSE.

>>807844

>>807853

Why is End of Z so deeply reviled? Is it just because of Uub and his ugly mohawk?

>>807895

>it could have ended right there and it would have been very satisfying

It was the end of Goku's character arc. The rest was of the franchise was just ass-pull shit that happened for no reason.

.>>807762

Yeah they should have just ended it at the montage, and if they were going to use an ending, they should have used the one before this. That didn't degrade the overall quality.

>>807838

Frieza's character development was pretty cool. Instead of a corny instant redemption moment or trying to backstab everyone at the dumbest moment they placed him in a situation where he was forced to place his life into Goku's hands, and they did it without a lot of the dumb "team up" tropes.

As to whether or not he will try to fuck with Goku again is another story. He still seems pretty arrogant, but he does seem to show some gratitutde.

>>807687

>I hope after the movie this will be the end.

The worst case scenario is Toei making another movie recap arc.

I think that we reached peak "let it fucking end"-dom. I don't even want to see the manga salvage this garbage. It lost its chance in the Zamasu arc. However let's not kid ourselves, they are going to force more Dragon Ball Bullshit.

>>807669

Tien multiplied to take out a sniping fighter that was giving Gohan and Piccolo trouble.

Krillin threw a stinky shoe at some bat that wouldn't have lasted another ten minutes.

Tien >>> Krillin

>>807687

Why are people saying it ended when they've made it clear they're going on hiatus? They'll replace bulma's voice actress and keep going.

I still can't accept all these horribly weak characters being let anywhere near gods.

>Master Roshi gets destroyed by señores Piccolo

>Does nothing for decades, the same as he's been doing for most of his life

>Ready to take on another universe

I know dragonball is pure, concentrated bullshit but this is too much.

>>808116

I wonder which series you were watching because I don't remember Roshi beating the shit out of Beerus and almost winning.

>>808121

You understand perfectly what I'm saying, and pretending to be retarded doesn't change that.

>>808079

It would be a good time to age Bulma up a bit. It would help explain the va change.

>>808116

A majority of the fighter from every universe were brought in on short notice and were selected primarily for their avilabilty rather than their fighting level. There were some strong fighters here and there, but it’s obvious how rushed it was considering how quickly 17 and Frost were able to wipe out other universes. Roshi was fine against the weaker opponents as he had experience on his side and a lot of the other fighters didn’t. Jiren was by far the strongest in the tournament outside of mui Goku. It took a weakened Goku, Frieza and 17 to take him out when he was weakened as well. Had Frieza not saved Goku, Jiren would have overpowered 17 and he.

>>807837

The finale battle in Super surpassed the other battles, because it was more than Goku firing off his Spirit Bomb or some ki blast for the win. You actually saw desperation in that fight from every fighter and they all gave it their all. Gohan vs Cell came close, because smug Cell finally got his comeuppance. The Super ending wasn’t much of an ending, but an intermission until next year or whenever it continues after the hiatus. GT’a ending was final as Goku became one with Shenron and that was it. Z’s ending was like Super in that it wasn’t much of an ending, but another intermission. DB segued right into Z, so its ending was easy to miss.

>>808122

No I don't.

Roshi only fought:

Some flying someone he shocked and Tien knocked out

The illusions girl who he Mafuba'ed

The bird guy who he outskilled with his experience but when overwhelmed by his raw power he threw a Kamehameha so hard it killed him

Frost who was beating Roshi until he got Mafuba'ed which failed because Roshi was nearly dying, who then Frost beat the fuck out of him again until Roshi tried to Mafuba again which Frost redirected to Vegeta and Frost beat the fuck out of Roshi for a third time until Roshi desperately in a last ditch effort saved Vegeta from that.

I hope you are not implying that all participants in the tournament are God-level because it is VERY obvious they are not. People like Goku, Vegeta, Toppo and Jiren are extreme outliers.

You'd have a point had Roshi been able to keep up with Jiren or something stupid like that, but that never happened. Roshi only fought the low-level people from the other universes.

The tourney was not all about powerlevels in the first place, it was about experience and trickery too, because, you know, it was battle royale focused on survival. They brought up this point MANY times during the recruitment arc, which was one of the reasons they picked Roshi, his extensive experience. Granted, it sounds cooler or paper than it was in practice.

>>808184

>The finale battle in Super surpassed the other battles, because it was more than Goku firing off his Spirit Bomb or some ki blast for the win.

This really doesn't happen, unless you wanna count movies and games and shit and doing that would be super dumb.

>King Piccolo

All his limbs but one arm are useless. Throws a ki blast with everything he has on the floor to give himself propulsion for one last desperate punch.

>Piccolo

>All limbs useless, one fuck-huge hole on the shoulder, only wins by blindsiding Piccolo by showing he actually knew how to fly and headbutting the also very worn out Piccolo out of the arena.

>Vegeta

Ten, Yamcha, Chiaotzu and Piccolo dead and this is before Vegeta joins the fight.

Beats Nappa easily but Vegeta takes up to a Kaio-Kenx4 which leaves him in extreme pain at the slightest touch. Takes Yajirobe cutting Vegeta's tail, Krillin throwing Goku's Genki-dama which had lost nearly all it's energy and Gohan crushing Vegeta under his Great Ape form and Vegeta was STILL alive. Massive team-effort full of struggle.

>Frieza

Kaio-Kenx20 was useless, Genki-dama was useless, Frieza nearly kills Piccolo and kills Vegeta and Krillin. Takes Super Saiyan and stalling Frieza for muh stamina memes to beat him.

>Cell

First time Goku really fucked up by not sitting down for 5 seconds to tell Gohan about his keikaku and he paid the price by having to sacrifice himself.

Gohan fucks up by not killing Cell from the get-go and going HURR HE MUST SUFFER

Vegeta fucks up by going into a retard rage because Cell killed Trunks and Gohan gets fucked up

Takes fucked up Gohan last stand with Vegeta assist to overcome Cell

>Buu

Everyone is a complete fuck-up here. Goku, Gotenks, Gohan could have beaten Fat Buu, Super Buu and even Kid Buu but didn't for reasons, in many occasions. First and only time Genki-Dama actually worked and only because of Vegeta's keikaku and Mr Satan helping out with his voice.

>Beerus

Complete loss even with Super Saiyan God

>Golden Frieza

Goku gets fucked by Frieza's keikaku. Needs Whis to rewind time.

The Goku Show is a meme. The only place where it is really accurate is on the movies, now those do love to wank Goku and only Goku. The manga? Not that much. Goku barely has any clear-cut decisive wins when you get to it.

>>808184

>whenever it continues after the hiatus

14th December, the movie is the next continuation of Super.

The Japanese episode 131 broadcast ended with the trailer for the DBS movie.

I assume that the movie is the final DBS entry, and then we get a sequel series under a different name.

>>808185

> They brought up this point MANY times during the recruitment arc

It was justification after the fact. There was basically no trickery of any sort during the Ark, and tricky can only get you so far. There's a reason they didn't bring Roshi and his "trickery" to fight the Saiyans, or Cell, or Buu, and that's the reason they shouldn't have brought him to fight against other universes.

>>808205

>There was basically no trickery of any sort

17 was the prime poster of this, to the point he outplayed people who clearly outclassed him on raw power many times through clever tactics, barriers and stalling, and ultimately won the tournament

When Goku tried to out Jiren with Kienzans on the stage.

The sniper dude.

The super small bug.

Frieza's laser jail to stop Dyspo

And probably many others I'm forgetting about.

>There's a reason they didn't bring Roshi and his "trickery" to fight the Saiyans, or Cell, or Buu, and that's the reason they shouldn't have brought him to fight against other universes.

Wow, it's almost like different situations require different solutions!

Did you somehow forget that the tourney is supposed to be an elimination tourney? That the goal is to drop people out of the arena while keeping as many of yours in? How it is not about who can yell AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH the longest and show off the biggest ki aura?

Are you American per any chance? It would explain why you are so obsessed with powerlevels.

>>808220

Of course, it's not like you could win a fight by holding someone in place. It's not like there's someone with a sure-fire kill move who could really use the help, right? It's bad writing.

>>807844

GT was great, and only faggots who watched the dub disagree. I might make webms of that next.

>>808327

GT was awful. Fuck off back to Reddit.

>>808220

Either Jiren could have unleashed all his power, or Toppo could have gone full God of Destruction right at the start, and literally everyone except Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza would have been blown right the fuck off the stage.

The only reason there was any "drama" was because the Saiyan's power levels vary massively depending who they are fighting, and Jiren stood around around for the first 47 minutes with his thumb up his ass. It was stupid.

There was some cool shit, yeah; not gonna lie. But that doesn't make up for the fact that the ENTIRE PREMISE of the tournament was retarded to begin with.

>>807516

>Vegeta looks like he still has a chance at surpassing Goku

If UI is gone, doesn't that make Vegeta stronger since he unlocked SSJGSSJ2?

>>807647

>I'd say 17 was the MVP

I liked him at first, but he started to get a little mary-sue at the end.

>>808116

Not as bad as 17 taking on Jiren.

>>808357

>>808357

>Toppo could have gone full God of Destruction

That reminds me, why is Toppo a regular mortal again after he gets wished back? I thought there were no backsies.

>>808395

SSJGSSJ2 is gone too, he will most likely completely forget about it

So after all the ominous monologs, Frieza wasn't planing anything at all?

>>808425

He was planning on betraying everyone's expectations!

>>808425

He had plans, anon, but they got beat out of him.

>>808395

He seemed pretty even with Goku at Blue with kaioken x10.

>>808401

17 stated during the Toppo fight that he had no chance against him. It was obvious that both he and Frieza knew they stood no chance against Jiren. That's why Frieza saved Goku and more than likely why they both fucked off after 17 exploded himself. They would have been instantly knocked off by a powered up Jiren. MUI Goku managed to dominate Jiren, but that never lasts. The same thing happened in the Vegito vs Buu fight or the Vegito vs Zamasu fight.

>>808404

I think he just got drained once Vegeta exploded on him. It was also stated that the aura on him was hakai energy, which he had no reason to keep up in the stands.

>>808425

What >>808710 said is most likely true. What plans Frieza had got beat out of him by Toppo and Jiren. He was happy to settle with just being revived, which is why he tried to take out Jiren on his own and why he teamed up with Goku to do it.

>>808724

> special attacks looked this cool and were sparse enough to make you feel the weight of it each time

Goku was using the kamehameha like every fight after he learned it except where he could just knock out his opponents without even trying. The last major attack in DB was the Mafuba and that's because using it actually killed Roshi. In comparison, Majin Vegeta attacking the crowd in Z had better weight behind it, because there was no stopping him.

>>808744

Gohan taking over was a good place to end it. It would have been even better for Goku to die on Namek after he destroyed Frieza, but the Cell games death lets Gohan take over.

>>808752

The Toppo thing was kinda a psychological choice, though. Basically, as soon as he realized that the entire concept of JUSTICE was bunk, and the only way to get anything done was through the power of HULK SMASH, he would accept becoming a God of Destruction. Even if Zeno somehow rolled back this transformation and turned him back into a mortal, the change in his mind would still have been present.

I mean, if anything in this fucking series made any sense, that is.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2018-03-27/toei-animation-to-establish-department-focused-on-dragon-ball/.129582

Super sequel/continuation confirmed. Dragon Ball isn't ending for at least another few years.

>>808986

I'm kinda surprised that DB is getting its own department. I knew Super was really popular, but it looks like it was even more popular than that.

>>808777

I think Vegeta managed to beat some sense into Toppo and it showed that hakai can potentially be countered. Of course, Toppo couldn't sustain his hakai energy, so that doesn't mean Vegeta can try the same thing on someone like Beerus and get a similar result. It goes back to when Frieza thought he had surpassed hakai energy when he barely managed to resist a single ball of it thrown from some minion. Toppo was still fresh to hakai, but he still managed to completely overwhelm Frieza. That alone shows that Vegeta could dominate Frieza at this point.

That brings up another point. I don't think Frieza is going to try and conquer Earth again. It wouldn't make any sense at this point. He's back as emperor and essentially in charge of the universe again. He has no reason to go after Earth and he already knows how much stronger the saiyans are. It would be completely stupid of him to attack as he's just going to get killed again. He has to realize that even if he does train and get stronger, Goku is going to be doing the same thing and he always manages to come out on top in the end.

>>808986

>Dragonball is getting its own animation department at Toei

>After a three-year-series plagued by shitty animation and production issues has just wrapped up, and won't be resuming for probably a year

I would say this is like putting the cart before the horse, but it's more like doing so when your horse is already dead.

>>809165

How much of that revenue is from the US? I bet they forgot to factor in all the mexicans and negros we have; They love dragonball.