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File: 9c66f36f4445ebc⋯.png (68.88 KB, 600x221, 600:221, serveimage.png)

 No.792435

Could Pokemon have potentially been good had Ash/Satoshi actually kept improving or progressing after the first season? In the first season it felt like Ash was actually (somewhat) getting better as a trainer, even if he was still a retard by the end of it. I know the main appeal of the series is nostalgia at this point, but was there anything redeeming about the first season, or the show in general?

 No.792436

File: 3013b29ef82d130⋯.png (1.18 MB, 1465x2048, 1465:2048, serveimage(2).png)

It had good girls. post your poke-waifus


 No.792437

The anime lacked direction, most of it was just filler to showcase different pokemon and things you'd see in the games. If shit actually happened like in the different manga then it would be better, but maybe it wouldn't be as good of an advertisement for the games, which was always the anime's main purpose.


 No.792441

>>792435

>but was there anything redeeming about the first season, or the show in general?

Pokemon always was about the Pokemons and the Cute Girls, nothing else.

Best pokegirl is either Elesa or Hilda.


 No.792442

File: 5eaa04b67cbbf72⋯.jpg (1011.11 KB, 1158x1637, 1158:1637, __alolan_vulpix_bounsweet_….jpg)

Eventually he should have reached an apex to his skill, have him win in Hoenn or Johto, and moved on to his son or descendant. I get why they keep Ash and pikachu around but it is just getting silly at this point, kids that are watching this show today have no reason to care about Ash or his pokemon at this point other than brand recognition.


 No.792447

>>792442

>brand recognition.

Incidentally, Pokemon, as a whole, seems to have reached its apex.

After that Pokemon Go thing and the Sun/Moon games, it feels like it died for good.

Or I'm just getting old, but that doesn't seem to be the case for this.


 No.792453

The best thing would have been for Max to replace Ash, and Max become the main character.

Oh and Ash evolves his fucking Pokemon dear fucking lord.


 No.792454

>>792447

Sun and Moon was too handholdy, and felt too constrained and cluastrophobic, like it could have been made soooo much bigger with open space.


 No.792466

File: fc793a8b4ca6284⋯.jpg (71.28 KB, 595x842, 595:842, __female_protagonist_and_l….jpg)

>>792447

Except for as bad as Sun/Moon were, they were still just a bit better than X/Y and ORAS, so it's been a downhill slope for a while. Coincidentally or not, there was also that absolutely huge surge in popularity amongst the normalfag crowd looking to latch onto some nostalgia bandwagon right at about the time X/Y released, which is undoubtedly a big contributing factor, as well. I miss those days when I had to hide it from everyone.

We did get some very nice lolis, though. There's always a silver lining. Makes me wish we could get cute girls doing trainer things.

Sage because this shit ain't /a/.


 No.792471

>>792447

Nah brother, just wait for Pokemon Switch. It just seems quiet because there's nothing to captivate normalfag's attention spans


 No.792474

File: 558682c33f32f64⋯.jpg (146.77 KB, 1024x767, 1024:767, Dawn ass.jpg)

>>792436

I fucking love Dawn.


 No.792496

The show should have allowed Ash to grow and eventually achieve some specific goal rather than have him wander the earth aimlessly for all eternity. When Ash was done, they could introduce a new MC with different goals and use them to show off different regions/pokemon. This could be repeated as many times as necessary, perhaps with old characters making appearances every once in a while to provide a sense of continuity. And the MCs don’t always have to have the same goal of “beat all the gyms and then win the regional championship”. There are so many things you could do with a setting like Pokemon, and yet they would never even try because they cant bring themselves to deviate from their formula.


 No.792501

I really think they should have just removed Satoshi as the protagonist after the Jotho season. But nope, gotta keep that stupid cutesy mascot Pikachu around, even if that means that you are forcing your maincharacter into never reaching his goal


 No.792503

Don't want to sound like a nostalgiafag but the Kanto series is probably as close to the ideal formula as the anime ever got. There should always a goal but it should never be the focus of the show, just something to frame the protagonist's adventure. The focus should always be showcasing how fucking weird the pokemon world is and individual character stories so ideally the league plot should fill as little time as possible but the protagonist should still win the league because fuck it's painful when ash gets bullshitted out of a win


 No.792528

It was never going to be good because it was always made to shill for the games, that's why the anime exists in the first place.

That said, if you want to make it good, just do what the manga does. Have a different character for each region, and have old characters return down the line having grown up. That way the little kids have an MC they can identify with but you don't have to keep retreading the same lines and make you main character out to be a useless tard that can't win shit.


 No.792536

>>792503

>Just about every time Ash gets close to winning a big tournament, some bullshit comes up to stop him

Charizard being an asshole in Kanto was one, but can anything top Diamond/Pearl's Tobias having both a Darkrai and Latios, plus four other pokemon we never actually saw that were probably just as retarded? He probably had mewtwo, just because.

Now that I'm raging, I can't help but think of the episode where Ash gets turned into a pikachu himself. As it only happened at the very end, I started to think the idea had some real potential, like the next episode would have team rocket trying to kidnap him by mistake. Instead, he just poofs back to normal at the very start. I don't think I've ever been so disappointmad


 No.792608

>>792437

>most of it was just filler to showcase different pokemon

Except the porygon line because they needed a scapegoat for that one episode.


 No.792620

File: 73c974ab92758f3⋯.png (200.85 KB, 700x989, 700:989, __hikari_pokemon_and_pokem….png)

File: 9cb5a6a5abb2d47⋯.png (303.34 KB, 700x979, 700:979, __hikari_pokemon_and_pokem….png)

File: 65fe965c721b7b8⋯.png (216 KB, 700x979, 700:979, __hikari_pokemon_and_pokem….png)

File: 1c71a2e244d2470⋯.png (354.95 KB, 700x1561, 100:223, __hikari_pokemon_and_pokem….png)

File: 7e2787ab93bcbf8⋯.png (217.53 KB, 700x979, 700:979, __hikari_pokemon_and_pokem….png)

>>792436

>>792474

Why is Dawn so sexual?


 No.792631

Pretty much what everyone else has said – unless Ash is clinically incompetent, they would quickly have hit a power cap. They could have swapped protagonists to keep things interesting, but I have a feeling that they didn't do that for the sake of brand recognition.

>>792447

I think so too. Given its popularity, the series is more or less guaranteed to sell for the next ~15 years, but I'm genuinely doubtful they can top Go (which they royally fucked up with the absolute lack of content). Catch em' all is now all but impossible when roughly 800 exist and dozens are locked behind special events, so the appeal of the series has been reduced to 'fun adventure.' For the past several games they've basically given you the legendaries as part of an in-game event; the Pokemon are almost becoming window dressing. They tried for the first time to make a coherent story-driven game in SM so that they can push away from the collecting.

Outside of remakes, I have a sense that they're going to bring back the sequel formula they established with BW2 in the future to appeal to nostalgia. I guarantee they're going to use plotlines like SM – we already got a little bit of that in the end of ORAS.

People have been saying for a decade or more that they're going to make some kind of massive 3D game for the home console, but with the news that they're making a game for the Switch I believe that there's a slim chance it could actually happen. All the interviews where they talk about the franchise as essentially portable don't matter for shit with the Switch.


 No.792714

File: f713fd6db6f960b⋯.jpg (229.51 KB, 645x910, 129:182, 74294b0106ea11dffa27f872f5….jpg)

File: 2ddf48be884560d⋯.jpg (270.45 KB, 1329x2214, 443:738, b8ce928398cec79364fde04a03….jpg)

File: bf4f1f1766e481a⋯.jpg (313.85 KB, 857x1196, 857:1196, bf4f1f1766e481ad4c935918b4….jpg)

File: caac156241ac937⋯.jpg (130.38 KB, 949x1371, 949:1371, d212cfc0d822a6fef62f71ce57….jpg)

File: c381e36ee1aa207⋯.jpg (290.91 KB, 826x1168, 413:584, ee54c8b456e6059e1ddb31b92c….jpg)

>>792436

>post your poke-waifus

Lusamine is pure sex.


 No.793172

File: adcb8eda5e84373⋯.jpeg (91.94 KB, 740x888, 5:6, serveimage.jpeg)

So whatever happened to this gook?


 No.793258

>>793172

He got drafted, he said he'll be back at it after the army.


 No.793270


 No.793351

>>792435

>Ash gets BTFO'd as soon as he gets out of the kiddie leagues and has to compete with actual well-adjusted and professional adults.

>Has to mature and learn to battle in a sensible manner, culminating in finally finding his niche in double battles around the time Advanced would have aired.

>Grows older, steadily climbing the league, maybe with some spinoffs describing his quest from different angles and in different styles.

>By the current year, Ash has turned from a worthless adventuring ten-year-old to a college-age, glasses-wearing, constantly minmaxing son of a bitch.

If only. Alternatively, if the people behind Special got a grip on the Anime, things would have went much better. That shit's gold.


 No.793424

>>793351

>If only. Alternatively, if the people behind Special got a grip on the Anime, things would have went much better. That shit's gold.

Even Electric Tales of Pikachu was better than the anime.


 No.793593

Just give Pokemon Mystery Dungeon a proper anime.

There are some promotional episodes and they are hella cool.

I don't care about trainers, I want to see Pokemon go on adventures


 No.793636

File: fa8c7e368876d97⋯.png (430.34 KB, 640x480, 4:3, ClipboardImage.png)

>>792435

I liked that Ash's eventual arrival at the first Pokemon League was contrasted with another character who was effectively paralel Ash from a good timeline. He actually kept and trained all of his pokemon instead of letting all of them run off. He gave them all names and had a more overt bond with them instead of it just being the typical implied protag bullshit bond that Ash has with all of his pokemon.

This was the character we should have been following. Instead we got a retard who has been stumbling his way through this pokemon trainer thing for decades.


 No.793664

File: b8b073de0fa92bb⋯.png (33.58 KB, 474x426, 79:71, Kris1.png)

I feel like the series hit its downward spiral when it hit Hoenn.

Which bear with me for a moment, isn't to say it wasn't purely for marketing, because it was.

The people who watched pokemon were still kids by the time Hoenn came around and probably still had interest in the adventures of Ash Misty and Brock. They're kids and kids will watch whatever for whatever kid reason they have.

But when they hit Gen 3 of the games they did something wrong.

Kids hate unnecessary change and Gen 3 was full of those.

>May? Who is this brown haired skank I WANT MISTY BACK!!!

>Where are my pikachu and totadile. I WANT MY CHARMANDER!

Gen 3 pissed off a lot of the long runners for the series.

As for a fix to the show I really wish they continued on with Chronicles and did like Star Trek and pushed it on the side and let it overtake the original.

It lets the original cast have their place and lets you keep a cleaner story.

>>792466

The games have no genuine direction anymore. Sun/Moon's story, the hand holding, and lack of genuine improvements X/Y brought, made meta dead until pokebank.

As for improving the games from whatever Sun/Moon are; a less locked in version of the console games would probably be a healthier lifecycle for the games than they're locked into right now. But at least there's mystery dungeon.

>>793636

Agreed, they would write one character a season who might've been worth following only to never hear from them again.

pic related is best pokegirl

Genuine question anons, are the new ones Ultra Sun/Moon worth it or are they worthless. Because half hour tutorial island with unskippable cutscenes really pissed me off.


 No.793669

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

I kind of like the direction the series went in in terms of Ash. The problem with adhering to the game's logic of leveling is that once you get something to level 100, which is piss easy after one or two regions, even the Pokemon existing as the closest thing to canonical gods aren't much of a challenge to face down.

By keeping everything power-capped, they effectively have more believable power levels per creature, and like the games expanding on what's built from the existing species list beforehand, should ideally make it more about what each member is doing as opposed to just overpowering everything with the species you already used. This is why moments like Ash losing to a Snivy at the start of the B/W era are great, even though at first glance they make no sense.

Keyword is "should," since Pikachu at the end of the day will just Thunder/Volt Tackle/Gigavolt/whatever since it has an extra high power cap due to being a protagonist.

There are three steps to fixing the Pokemon anime:

>Have Ash keep some of his old Pokemon.

Not necessarily all of them, but some of them that didn't get their own character arcs. Granted, they did this partially correct with some of his Pokemon like Bulbasaur lasting until the end of the 3rd gen, but having a consistent hallmark besides Pikachu both lets the audience evaluate new threats with something they can compare their level to, and benchmark how far Ash has traveled. The Pokemon, when they're written well, have a chance to be great characters since their emotions and personalities are almost completely done through their actions. From a storytelling perspective, that's difficult to pull off, but if they actually put in an effort to capitalize on this, would make for one of the best anime out there (but that's a HUGE 'if').

>Focus on side characters

This both distracts from Ash remaining relatively static and mirrors the games in the story being driven by characters other than the main protagonist. There are only two games where the hero really has any character in Gen II, where as you progress you actively go out to face all of the challenges you physically can up until you travel to a remote mountain to go fight the previous champion, and Colosseum, which, really, should have had its own arc.

>Increase Ash's, and the villains' competence.

Jessie and James are fine as they stand, but as the main series games get more story-driven, the villains get increasingly more complex. Lysandre, Ghetsis, and Cyrus could easily go on par with some other looming threats overseeing some grand scheme on levels we've seen in other anime. The problem is that they're never used as a means to showcase how far the protagonists have progressed, or their plans just get a dedicated few episodes. Let's go back to the first season. How did Ash beat Giovanni? What were Giovanni's plans? I don't like when people just say "just make it like Adventures," but at least in having everyone team up to go face the Elite Four they did something right for getting on a good climax for that saga of the manga.

Just the same, tying back to my opening here, the series could utilize its best strength without increasing the power cap while allowing its protagonist to think a little bit, which, I do admire in some parts where they at least try, even if it doesn't make sense.

Ash fighting Misty again in the S/M arc is a great example of this (if you can get passed the art style change) - Misty mega-evolves her Gyarados to demonstrate how far she's progressed in becoming a threat after parting with Ash, and in turn it forces Ash to think strategically by using three-dimensional space to his advantage (something the games could never demonstrate because of the battle system), eventually landing a good Iron Tail on Gyarados without necessarily overpowering it, but because Pikachu is a faster species. Misty retaliates by using Hurricane after rain has been set up, which follows the mechanics of the game well because of the accuracy boost that's given. Granted, the fight gets stupid afterwards and devolves into some other problems with the series (climbing on a hurricane? Really? Why couldn't the victims of Hurricane Sandy by as resourceful as Ash Ketchum?), but this demonstrates some of the good the series can pull off if they get their tools aligned.

>>792466

>Pokemon

>normalfag crowd

Pick two


 No.793673

>>793664

>are the new ones Ultra Sun/Moon worth it or are they worthless

Worthless. They're just incredibly half-assed third version releases, but split into two versions. No real new content, still no fucking Battle Frontier or anything. And the plot gets even more retarded with Rainbow Rocket and Necrozma's Kingdom Hearts backstory.


 No.793676

>>793593

Don't remind me. I enjoyed the first 2 specials and would have been happy with a movie or short OVA series to follow up within the respective games, but instead we got nothing.

>the official Pokemon channel has all the specials uploaded

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAOmQ-foqeg&list=PLQWzKIaERirxxkkyHChUluIKspYOhIuyh playlists don't work properly with embed

Well that's nice. if you don't mind the dub

>Gates to Infinity specials only total about 6 minutes

No wonder I forgot that game had a special. (Figures the lack of effort in making its specials is representative of the lack of effort in making that game.)


 No.793712

The creators apparently said it wouldn't be the same series if he left, but that's easily solved. Literally all they had to do was have him win one of the tournaments, then have the new series start with him a few years older in the new series and make him the older brother/mentor type character to the game's PC instead of adding a new Brock. If that fails they just need to push him back into the spotlight, if it works they can eventually retire him and recycle the process for the new characters.


 No.793713

File: 63f4da3c585eb1f⋯.jpg (142.13 KB, 900x1100, 9:11, 63f4da3c585eb1f73326e704db….jpg)

File: 33205a5f8c9082e⋯.jpg (126.9 KB, 850x886, 425:443, 33205a5f8c9082eae908e3a9df….jpg)

>>792466

MoonxLillie is adorable. Why is there no option to kiss her?


 No.793720

>>793712

>The creators apparently said it wouldn't be the same series if he left

What kind of dumb logic is that?

Of course it wouldn't be the same series, and that would be a good thing because currently the series is shit on all levels.


 No.794043

File: db3d68f4dc48139⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 717.74 KB, 1500x859, 1500:859, __hikari_and_satoshi_pokem….jpg)

>>792436

Good taste


 No.794070

File: e71500d45849493⋯.gif (Spoiler Image, 1.49 MB, 518x418, 259:209, dawn.gif)


 No.795013

>>793720

They want the same series for easy marketing. People still watch the show regardless of its quality.


 No.795030

>>793720

Food for thought but given that they named him as a tribute to the guy who created Pokemon in Japan I can understand their reluctance.... That said there's really no excusing their incompetence in crafting a compelling story.


 No.795048

File: 045b32fda05a5e2⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 715.69 KB, 900x636, 75:53, 761110 - Ash_Ketchum Chris….jpg)


 No.795056

HookTube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.

>>792536

>but can anything top Diamond/Pearl's Tobias having both a Darkrai and Latios, plus four other pokemon we never actually saw that were probably just as retarded?

XY ended a million times worse. At least in DP it made sense that Ash lost because he was way over his head, but in XY some edgy fuck's Charizard - a normal fucking Charizard - tanks half of Ash's team including one that not only has an anime original bullshit transformation but also has the type advantage. Here's a video, skip to 3:05 if you want to see the funniest part. You can almost feel the panic from the writers when they realize that there's no feasible way to make the loss look convincing.


 No.795059

>>792536

I always liked to imagine that, somewhere in the Pokemon universe, there's the equivalent of the irl competitive community we have, like Smogon or whatever. Legendaries actually aren't that rare for those in the know and everyone breeds and battles the best in the meta. They don't even compare to most people you see in the series.

Tobias was That Guy, that one cosplaying chuuni faggot who liked to imagine himself as the strongest around just because he uses legendaries in every battle and, being an edgy little fucker, Darkrai was his favorite. After getting laughed at and ground into paste multiple times because he has no idea what the fuck he's doing, he picks up a few tips (like teaching Darkrai Ice Beam) but ultimately doesn't accept his faggotry or any real criticism about how shitty his team/movesets/EV spreads/fashion choices are. Tobias leaves the competitive scene to go and LARP as some kind of battling god in the normalfag leagues: the only place where people know even less than him and where he'll be worshipped as some kind of legendary-Pokemon-training god by the people. And so we get Tobias's Sinnoh League entry.


 No.795068

>>795059

That would be the most depressing outcome as that means Ash is pretty much below even most normalfag tamers, the autists that run the competitive meta probably think he's retarded.


 No.795118

>>795056

Nah, Tobias is worse. At least Alain was an established character from a spinoff series of him trying to fight all the mega-evolutions whereas Tobias popped up during the tournament meaning he was only written in for the purpose of defeating Ash.

>type advantages mattering in Pokeanime

But then again Mega Charizard X being fire/dragon means it's not weak to water.


 No.795517

>>795068

Shit how cool would be to be able to see that side of the pokeworld. Imagine Ash encountering one of those autist and getting his ass wrecket in such a legendary way he actually gets mindbroken. Imagine his pikachu being the last pokemon, Ash trying to hype its attack only to be one-shot or even worse, be fucked by terrain hazard and then get its shit slapped around


 No.795573

I've been thinking, if the anime wants to convince us that the power of friendship is the strongest shit in the world, wouldn't people who specialize in fighting types be the strongest?

After all they are notorious for being the kind of person who will perform physical training together with their pokemon, getting super buff in the process.

What could possibly create a stronger bond?

Pokemon should be more fitness centric and trainers need to learn to move their lazy asses from the backline.

How about a spinoff about trainers doing tag battles together with their pokemon?


 No.795583

>>795573

You should check out the pokemon adventure manga. Trainers fight with their pokemon, villains constantly try to bypass a trainer's pokemon to attack the trainer, things like how fast they can make a pokemon retreat and throw the next pokeball come into play.


 No.795664

File: 9aa353a0d4372c7⋯.png (15.58 KB, 150x144, 25:24, Chargodon.PNG)

>Ash has to deal with suicide leads shitting all over his side of the field with stealth cocks and spikes

>Lando fucking everywhere

>Ash spends 6 episodes fighting stall, questioning his opponent the entire time how he finds this fun

>Ash runs into a group of memers and has to watch resttalk drapion accupressure for an entire season arc until it final forms like Frieza


 No.795669

>>795664

I'd watch all of that. Also

>ash joins fullderp

>metagame destroys his innocent friendship power mentality, ditches his pikachu and replaces it with a rotom wash

>he proceeds to win every tournament he has lost over the years using volt switch


 No.795670

>>795664

Don't forget the ever original mega-evolved Lopunny with a focus sash.


 No.795834

>>795664

>oh hey this tournaments seems fun

>and then ash fought only primal groudon, talonflame, smeargle and xerneas because those were the only pokemon other trainers kept using


 No.795843

>>795834

>talonflame

Come on, anon, this is current year + 3. Everyone is using tapus and hawlucha.


 No.795844

>>795843

I was talking about vgc 2016.


 No.799070

I remember a few years back Suede did a review of the Pokémon movies along with JewWario. Did he ever continue them, or did that die? along with JewWario


 No.799346

>>792435

>Could Pokemon have potentially been good had Ash/Satoshi actually kept improving or progressing

Of course. A better thing to have done was to allow him to win the Leagues but have that follow up to him and other league winners attending the Champion League to face the Elite Four. Have Ash face off against a few every season, lose to strive further, but while still allowing him at least the humble chance of winning a league tournament. Also fuck Gen 5.


 No.799748

>>799346

>fuck Gen 5

That whole series was a mess. Wasn't it supposed to have some big Team Rocket arc that got canned because of the earthquake? at least the games were good despite some of the bad designs Galvantula best Unova bro


 No.799886

>>799346

>>799748

What did gen 5 do so poorly compared to other gens anime-wise? The games were at least good. I'm still pissed online got cut short for gen 5 while gen 4 lasted 7 years


 No.804117

>>793636

At least he was able to return for a few episodes and Chronicles.


 No.804298

If any anons are interested in it I could upload a version of Liquid Crystal with the moemon sprites installed.


 No.804363

>>792435

>was there anything redeeming about the first season

Misty


 No.805501

>>792435

20 Years and still a Loser.


 No.808687

File: 9fa9bd736e293af⋯.jpg (377.14 KB, 2228x1996, 557:499, old man shuckle views.jpg)

File: a068e323fb071c3⋯.png (1.07 MB, 1034x799, 22:17, OMS feeding.png)

File: 82df5d1c11d38ff⋯.png (4.94 KB, 492x448, 123:112, OMS.png)

It needed more of this guy




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