/a/ - Animu & Mango

I think Vegeta's life risking move is going to be something like charging into and through one of Toppo's hakai attacks to land the winning blow.

That Frieza still can't sense Ki and has to operate entirely on his wits and regular senses makes me appreciate him so much more. Thankfully Toei hasn't screwed that part of him up. The smug lizard just doesn't know what he's facing so he instead decides it's gotta be worth fuck all. The only guy he recognised as beyond him was Jiren and that's because he witnessed the bullshit he was throwing around. Will Frieza actually tackle him to buy some time? Or will we get a victory by having unconscious Frieza stay in the ring until time's up?

>Goku, Vegeta and Jiren end up knocking each other out of the ring

>Everyone shits their pants because they think it's a draw and they're all in for erasure now

<OOOOOOHOHOHOHOHO

>>786538

I'll be satisfied with any conclusion other than fucking Goku winning the whole thing.

>>786540

Toppo Over Justice seems like he'll get knocked out of the ring instead of defeated straight up. It'd be nice to see Vegeta use some trickery to take him down, but I suspect he's gonna scream real loud and power up to overcome him. The trick Goku pulled on Jiren would've been a great way to end the fight and segue into something more interesting. Or surprise twist, Toppo of Destruction is the real final battle. Considering Goku and Vegeta haven't been able to defeat an official GoD yet, you'd think they'd have them take out someone close to the rank, not totally beyond it.

>>786561

Also, Toppo's GoD symbol not appearing on his back is a huge missed opportunity for a cool look AND an Akuma reference. Have him pull off a Raging Demon when he brutalised Frieza.

>>786538

>That Frieza still can't sense Ki and has to operate entirely on his wits and regular senses makes me appreciate him so much more.

I also really like this trait of Freeza. The only reason why Freeza is down, is his own arrogance.

He could have easily dodged Toppo's attack, but decided to take it head on.

There are only 6 episodes remaining, so the fight with Toppo should be wrapped up in 1-2 episodes.

>>786535

It was a great episode. It was nice to see Frieza get absolutely stomped, so maybe now he can have some character development. 17 knew right off the bat that he stood no chance at defeating him before he went god-mode. Frieza can't sense ki, so that beatdown should be a wakeup call that he really isn't shit on his own. He needed Gohan to sacrifice himself just so that he could take out that rabbit. There has to come a point where he realizes that he's going to have to work well with others to make it. It would make sense for him to try and go after gaining hakai power as well by training under Beerus. He was practically working as a god of destruction under Beerus' command anyways.

I can see Frieza shattering through his barrier after that beatdown and the humiliation that he suffered, but I don't see how 17 is going to do the same. He's far too cool and collect and it's not like he has pride that he can tap into. Goku, Vegeta and Frieza all have their own pride that they feed off of. 17 doesn't have that as far as I can tell, so I don't know how what's going to push him past his limits at this point.

>>786564

>push him past his limits at this point.

Perhaps 17 can "overclock" his reactor, his power is infinite so the only limiting factor is his power output.

So, how can a universe have two gods of destruction at the same time as with Toppo and Belmod? Further, isn't every GoD directly linked to their creator god counterpart?

>>786568

An excellent post.

>>786563

Is this finally the humbling of Frieza? The guy got bodied beyond belief this episode, can't chalk it up to stamina loss or trickery, he was overpowered and treated like a bitch. 17 even had to step in and save his unconscious ass from being knocked out of the ring. It'll be interesting to see if he develops from here, I like the sound of him training to become a GoD after witnessing the power Toppo can wield.

>>786566

I was wondering what 17 will do to break his limits. Overclocking himself sounds like it'd be pretty cool, it's a shame we're not gonna get a pure human breaking their limits though.

>>786574

Toppo is wielding hakai like a GoD, I guess hakai energy is just a type of Ki like God and regular?

>>786584

It seems that being a GoD extends your lifespan too, Beerus is in the millions already, isn't he? We know that Belmod celebrated some anniversary that meant he was in the hundreds of thousands for age so there's that for evidence too. Unless all the GoD's are long lived species.

>>786584

My problem with this is that it seems Topo came to terms with accepting the "position" of GoD, Otherwise, why would he be given full GoD powers? If he is in fact a GoD, which Kaio is he linked with? Can one Kai link with multiple GoD's? They are a bit cryptic about this. If Topo is in fact now occupying the position of GoD of U11, than there are several questions that need answers.

>>786574

Well, to be fair they just said that Toppo was a candidate for GoD, and it stands to reason that this "transformation" of his is something that's not happened before. So far as we know, Belmod is still the "official" GoD for his universe. It seems as if the ability to create and use hakai energy is someone anyone can do with sufficient training. This was teased at way back when Frieza was able to hold it back when the assassin threw a ball of hakai at him, so it's not really that surprising.

At this point, the best explanation would be that a GoD is an appointed position and nothing innate, and hakai is just another variation of ki.

The way that they're "linked" together likely isn't some automatic thing, either. Maybe the Grand Priest or whoever binds their souls together in some kind of ceremony whenever one of them gets replaced. This probably also is what enables the GoD to be immortal in the same way that the Angels and Kais are. It would be pretty stupid of Whis to suggest that Goku could be a GoD when he'd just drop dead of old age in another 50 years, and the idea that there would be so many random mortals around that can live for millions of years is absurd.

>>786598

Well, as you said, he was known to be a candidate for GoD and in the episode he states that he "made my choice" then proceeds to transform, wielding massive amounts of energy of destruction. That would seem to me that he accepted the offer to become GoD and now he is. Not that he suddenly just went "Oh hey, why don't I start using this awesome power i've been somehow not using for the entire tourney".

So if he is now the GoD of U11, what does that make Belmod? are his powers striped? Can he just go wander off now and be a carrot farmer? Bye, have fun, leave the clown nose and makeup on your way out.

>>786604

>So if he is now the GoD of U11

I don't think he is the GoD of U11 yet.

Being an actual GoD would automatically disqualify him from the ToP.

>>786606

That would be an awesome way to have him removed and I would so totally say that thats where they were going with him accepting the position, thrashing 17 and Freeza and then getting ported to the bench, disqualified but knowing how this arc is playing out, the 2 Z's are just gonna think its awesome and allow it.

>>786604

I guess that Toppo vowed to himself to not use Hakai energy unless he was 100% sure of being a GoD.

Also, didn't Goku use Hakai against Zamasu in the manga?

>>786610

Goku used the hakai in the manga, yeah. It's a skill that can be learned.

Toppo said ages back that the tournament was no longer about justice and purely about survival. Seems like he finally committed to that statement by fully embodying the GoD powers. Taking on the GoD role would be a conflicting issue for him, because he's going to have to destroy people and places that might not be evildoers. So him "accepting" the GoD powers and using them means he's pushed past that issue. It's actually not that bad in terms of writing, at least for DB.

>>786604

>Oh hey, why don't I start using this awesome power i've been somehow not using for the entire tourney

That's kinda what basically everyone has been doing, though. Might as well ask why Vegeta hadn't yet used SSB2, or why Dyspo didn't use his super-speed, or why U2 didn't fuse all their robots together immediately, or why Jiren didn't just flex his pinky finger and create such a giant explosion that everyone else went flying off the stage right away. Saving a "trump card" is a hallmark of the genre, and hardly anyone ever disobeys that unwritten rule, out of honor or whatever.

>>786658

At least for Toppo you can sort of see that he felt conflicted over unleashing/accepting this power. Dyspo has no excuse. Jiren in the manga doesn't even want to be there, so it seems that he's only fighting when really necessary.

>>786658

Quite true, however I believe you miss my point. I was pointing that out to highlight the fact that I don't believe Topo had access to those powers until he made the decision to accept the offer to become the GoD of U11, thereby, granting him the full powers of the GoD of U11, thereby making him the new GoD of U11, displacing Belmod. Even Jiren comments that he "decided", so I do not believe he was holding this back as a trump card per-se, he had nothing until he said "i do", then the powers were bestowed on him.

>>786597

He finally accepted the position to be a god of destruction, which means he can't be all about justice anymore and now needs to blow planets up as part of his job. He doesn't full control of hakai, so he isn't quiet at the level of Beerus yet. Beerus mentioned that he needs to wait before he can fire another hakai blast.

>>786604

I don't think Belmod is out of the job yet, but he's close to it. He may need to train Toppo a bit more, before he can fully take on his position. Toppo just took the final steps towards becoming a god of destruction, but it looks like he could still use a bit more training on how to properly wield hakai.

>>786660

>manga Jiren

He really wants to be back saving people in his own universe.

>>786689

There might be a ceremony before it becomes official. Toppo is definitely going to replace Belmod. I just don't think it's official yet among the kais, gods of destruction, angels, grand priest and zeno.

Mortals getting the status of gods was already present since the original DB and god ki was hinted since DBZ. However, I don't think much thought was put into these things.

1) Who has god ki?

2) How is god ki different from regular ki?

3) Does accepting a god status give someone god ki?

4) Is having god ki the only way to sense god ki?

5) Can a non-Namekian be a full fledged Kami (Guardian)?

6) Why can some mortals can get god ki without any obligations?

7) Is a god without a position physically different from a god with a position?

8) What is the purpose of the GoD?

9) Do gods like the Shinjin have regular ki too?

>>786574

>So, how can a universe have two gods of destruction at the same time as with Toppo and Belmod? Further, isn't every GoD directly linked to their creator god counterpart?

U7 had 5 Supreme Kais. The anime's explanation (which is almost worthless because they do whatever they feel like) is Toppo being a properly trained GoD apprentice.

>no one thinks to shoot at the ground beneath Toppo's feet while he's being all depressed and giganigga

C'mon now.

>>786689

This assumes that a GoD's powers are somehow "bestowed", which I believe to not be the case since their only distinctive power (hakai) is something that anyone can use, or at least control.

>>786784

Whoo, boy; where to start.

>1) Who has god ki?

Gods, for starters, and anyone else that trains in such a way as to attain it.

>2) How is god ki different from regular ki?

It's more powerful, and also "different". Think of it like light on the ultraviolet spectrum; vibrates faster and out of the range of normal vision for people.

>3) Does accepting a god status give someone god ki?

It's probably not automatic.

>4) Is having god ki the only way to sense god ki?

Seems to be the case, at least for the moment. Although 17 sensed something from Jiren, it doesn't take being able to see power levels to know a guy who just hulked out and is blowing up the ground beneath you is bad news.

>5) Can a non-Namekian be a full fledged Kami (Guardian)?

Kami offered it to Goku, so one would guess. It just wouldn't come with nifty Guardian powers like being able to heal people or create Dragonballs because that's a Namekian thing. I suspect there is something about the Lookout, itself, that enables the Guardian to watch over all of Earth or whatever. More to the point though, it was just a position invented and taken up by Kami in the first place; only Earth has a Guardian, and neither he nor Dende are "gods".

>6) Why can some mortals can god ki without any obligations?

The issue here is with the name. It's not "ki of the gods" it's "ki that's used by the gods". Anyone else can get it with the right training, but that's mostly predicated upon knowing that it exists. Thing is, the gods reasonably keep knowledge of it under wraps.

>7) Is a god without a position physically different from a god with a position?

As I said before, something has to be bestowing biological immortality onto those who presumably used to be mortals.

>8) What is the purpose of the GoD?

Acting as the primary force of entropy in a Universe, because physics is completely borked in Dragonball.

>9) Do gods like the Shinjin have regular ki too?

Probably, at least once, someone mortal was able to sense their energy back in Z. No reason they can't just switch back and forth; Goku and Vegeta do.

>>786538

>Goku, Vegeta and Jiren end up knocking each other out of the ring

>Everyone shits their pants because they think it's a draw and they're all in for erasure now

<OOOOOOHOHOHOHOHO

This is more or less what I think is coming. Makes me want them to get right through the Jiren fight.

All the same we have to see a powered up Jiren and one of the Goku/Vegeta fusions before it is all over. That will probably be how they perfect Ultra Instinct in the first place. (Goku has defensive instincts and Vegeta has attack instincts.)

>>786905

This is gonna be a hell of a cliffhanger.

>>786879

My point is not much thought is being put to these things and we have resort to a lot of speculation.

>Gods, for starters, and anyone else that trains in such a way as to attain it.

I would think someone like Buu would have god ki but it is never brought up. It also brings to question on what is a god.

>It's more powerful, and also "different". Think of it like light on the ultraviolet spectrum; vibrates faster and out of the range of normal vision for people.

Other gods seems to have regular ki which Goku can sense and teleport towards. It is only brought up selectively.

>It's probably not automatic.

It seems to be the case with Toppo but Beerus picked Goku and Vegeta who can get god ki without officially accepting a position. He also picked Frieza but it didn't go anywhere.

>Seems to be the case, at least for the moment. Although 17 sensed something from Jiren, it doesn't take being able to see power levels to know a guy who just hulked out and is blowing up the ground beneath you is bad news.

That also brings into question. If the androids don't have ki, why can they donate to the spirit bomb? If they can donate to the spirit bomb, why can't they use their infinite energy?

>Kami offered it to Goku, so one would guess. It just wouldn't come with nifty Guardian powers like being able to heal people or create Dragonballs because that's a Namekian thing. I suspect there is something about the Lookout, itself, that enables the Guardian to watch over all of Earth or whatever. More to the point though, it was just a position invented and taken up by Kami in the first place; only Earth has a Guardian, and neither he nor Dende are "gods".

That is what I assumed but it was never really explained. Clearly taking a position gives you special powers but Dende is shown to have proficiency for the job prior to taking it. Kami did casually went into Other World but so did Fortune Teller Baba. Future Trunks used his healing powers granted by the supreme kai's apprentice ritual but he doesn't seem to have god ki or be able to sense it.

>The issue here is with the name. It's not "ki of the gods" it's "ki that's used by the gods". Anyone else can get it with the right training, but that's mostly predicated upon knowing that it exists. Thing is, the gods reasonably keep knowledge of it under wraps.

I'm shitting on how "special" saiyans are. They literally can get the power of the gods by holding hands and the requirements for the regular SSJ form keeps weakening. At this point, saiyans could turn SSJ from back tingles yet only two saiyan in canon figure out how do it themselves in the entirety of both U7 and U6.

>As I said before, something has to be bestowing biological immortality onto those who presumably used to be mortals.

I'm saying that because the anime and the manga can't decide how they wanted to fuck up the Potara earrings.

>Acting as the primary force of entropy in a Universe, because physics is completely borked in Dragonball.

I would like to see how a competent supreme kai and a competent GoD are suppose to operate because clearly Beerus is shit at his job. Still, I hate the idea that of the mortal level being the sole measure of worth of a universe.

>Probably, at least once, someone mortal was able to sense their energy back in Z. No reason they can't just switch back and forth; Goku and Vegeta do.

Why would they? Also, mortals having god ki is an anomaly.

I honestly don't care much about the anime's explanations due to the whole "three punches colliding is enough to destroy the universe" bullshit but no one care because no one watched the BotG arc because it is just a longer shittier version of the movie.

>>786812

<no one thinks to shoot at the ground beneath Toppo's feet while he's being all depressed and giganigga

Maybe because he can jump off or block it.

>>787042

The whole "infinite energy" thing from the Androids has irked me from as soon as 17 fought Goku. Unlike everyone else, with them it seemed to be a constant-but-stable sort of thing. As in, they can always generate a fixed amount of energy, and it will never stop. This is key, because while it means that they don't lose stamina, it also means their top output cannot be increased. That's how Trunks was able to get strong enough to kill them in his own timeline, and they couldn't do a damn thing about it. In the Buu saga, 18 clearly wasn't any stronger than she had been, despite everyone else leveling up around her; to point, she was barely about to hold back a couple of chibi Super Saiyans in a costume.

This is all fine and good until 17 suddenly has a power level to match motherfucking Super Saiyan Blue Goku, when he should still be far weaker than even a SSJ2. He still has infinite energy, but now his max output is ten times higher for... no reason at all. If you ask me, this is the BIGGEST ASS PULL in Super so far, because the Androids have never gotten stronger before now, and there is ZERO precedent for it to even be possible.

>>787156

17 training by hunting poachers is like you training by, once or twice per day, stepping on an ant.

>>787155

< Do modified-human types like Artificial Humans No. 17 and No. 18 get stronger if they train?

>There are physical limits to the strength of the body itself, so in order to overcome that barrier, it’s necessary to increase your “ki”. Normally, the more you increase your ki, the harder it is to control, so ki control is also important.

It was stated quite a while ago in an interview that 17 and 18 can get stronger by training.

Also their real names are Lapis(17) and Lazuli(18).

Their's also the fact that 17 was described as power hungry in the original manga, that was his original design flaw. So it's not surprising that 17 trained to get stronger.

>>787164

*Fuck, I quoted 2 different interviews.

< Do modified-human types like Artificial Humans No. 17 and No. 18 get stronger if they train?

>In the case of modified-human types like No. 17 and No. 18, since they’re human-based they can become stronger if they train. By the way, though they don’t need to eat, they do need to hydrate. Also, their cells deteriorate slowly, so they age slowly too.

Source: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/db-full-color-artificial-humans-cell-arc-06/

>>787155

To play devils advocate.

Android 17 is implied to have a finity with wild animals. It is never implied that these animals were land based only. Android 17 could of easily trained by following deep sea poachers and releasing the trapoed sea animals. So 17, shown to live on an island in the middle of the ocean, get stronger the way Vegeta does from gravity increase kind of excersice. In the case of 17, would be constant deep sea water pressure.

>>787177

There's also the constant solitude, ceaseless patrolling, battling shitloads of scrubs with huge fire-power that you have to tank or dodge, avoding killing said scrubs when you counter-attack while also preventing their attacks and your response from damaging the animals or environment. 17 isn't sitting in the gravity chamber grinding for exp, hell, it's pretty blatant that Vegeta's training methods can't really take him anywhere fast. Goku spends his time sparring and doing drills and he's always keeping ahead as a result. It's consistently shown that you need actual sparring or combat to improve, Vegeta levelled up into a new form from forty eight minutes of combat with people mostly weaker than him. They unlocked SSB by training alongside Whis which involved extreme exercise as well as just trying to hit the guy. Vegeta went nowhere for seven years post-Cell and had to use magic steroids to catch up to Goku who was training and sparring in Otherworld.

>>787165

>>787164

"Word of God" means less than a dog's fart to me. If it's not stated or implied in the actual work, it doesn't fucking exist. Dumbledore isn't gay just because you say he is, years after he's dead, goddamnit.

>>787191

>battling shitloads of scrubs with huge fire-power that you have to tank or dodge

He can shrug off ki blasts that would turn entire planets into an asteroid belt. So long as he doesn't "drop his guard" or whatever the hell Goku keeps doing, it can't be any threat to him. Whatever 17 was doing, it couldn't possibly have held a candle to sparring with the most powerful being in the Universe, which was what Goku and Vegeta were doing.

>>787203

>. If it's not stated or implied in the actual work, it doesn't fucking exist

Then why do you make a big deal about 17 getting stronger?

It was never stated or implied that the Androids can't get stronger from training.

And DBS clearly shows that they can get stronger through training.

>>787205

DBS shows that power levels have no logic or meaning behind them at all anymore, and anyone can be however powerful the writer feels like at any point in time.

>>787208

The powerlevels stopped making sense after DB ended.

Goku's boosts in the Saiyan&Namek saga were utterly absurd, and even more ridiculous then what 17 did in DBS.

It just gets waived away with Zenkai Boosts, which also never were consistent.

I have no issue with 17 getting a large power boost over a 10 year period, when Goku showed similar power increases in mere weeks.

>>786535

>It doesn't matter how much you think this series sucks, that was awesome

You need abetter taste.

>>787209

Well Goku supposedly got a Zenkai Boost in DB when he drank the Ultra Divine Water and survived.

Why isn't toppo the end protagonist instead of Jiren? He's actually an interesting character with his own motivations instead of a literal Grey on steroids who fights for no real reason.

>>787249

Toppo is now the strongest god of destruction and only he can do it.

>>787191

Vegeta's training methods are actually pretty meta if you think about it. Actually sparring and traveling about like Goku and 17 would increase stamina, technique, and speed, but weight training would focus on increasing his strength instead of those. Most of the fights in the series besides a few one-shot in the ToP stopped revolving around actual technique and instead shifted towards just overpowering your opponent, so Vegeta's just prioritizing. He doesn't catch up to some of the others, but on the other hand he has a personal life as well while most of the others are spending almost all of their time training.

>>787219

The fight was somewhat good. However it isn't enough for me to consider the "muh kool fights" argument considering it didn't made up for all of the shitty fights in the series. The fights didn't even started to look good until near the end of this arc. I don't usually watch the series but I saw the episode where Toppo uses GoD powers. I also saw parts from the one with the robot trying to eat 18. I hate how the characters are still animated like they are still flying. Their jumping has too much midair mobility. There is also Kale ramming Goku looked more like flying.

>>787156

In the manga, it is stated that 17 protected the Earth from big threats when the main cast is away.

I guess the reason why 18 and 17 were weaker in Future Trunks timeline is either gradual weakening from having no real threat or Dr. Gero amp up the weakening because Goku was already dead and to make them more subservient.

>>787337

Yeah but he's not the #1 fighter in the universe.

>>787343

fuck, can't edit.

if vegeta downs toppo that means it won't be Vegito downing Jiren.

The most likely scenario is 17 sacrificing himself to down Toppo, then Vegito downs Jiren, and Frieza team KO's a tired Vegito down with a surprised attack so he wins the dragon balls

>>787364

I'd be satisfied with that ending.

>>787364

Goku beats Jiren after doing a asspull power again and 17+Vegeta knock out Toppo by sacrificing their limbs or some shit.

Frieza one shots goku with a surprise attack or feeds him a apple with a razorblade in it.

>>787376

>by sacrificing their limbs or some shit

>he thinks anyone is ever going to get injured in this series, ever again, after shit like Black running Vegeta through the heart with a ki sword and it doing no more than slightly inconveniencing him

>>787400

I miss one armed Gohan.

>>787415

YOU MEAN TWO ARMED GOHAN.

NOW LET US NEVER SPEAK OF AMPUTEES AGAIN.

>>787415

He should have lost an eye, too. Not only would he look pretty fucking badass with an eye-patch, but then we could refer to him as the One-Armed, One-Eyed, Flying Golden Android-Fighter.

>>787723

are there any cool one-eyed characters besides Kakashi?

>>787796

Hopefully they don't fuck it up by doing that and instead either have a victory through trickery or at least a sacrifice.

Freeza & 17 are the best thing that happened to DB in a long time.

They might actually be able to stop the Saiyan wank that started with DBZ.

A final with 17&Freeza would be much more entertaining than Goku or Vegeta vs Jiren.

>>787868

A tricky, proud prodigy and a no-nonsense park ranger team up to tackle the multiverses' strongest. I'd watch an entire arc of that.

>>786879

>The issue here is with the name. It's not "ki of the gods" it's "ki that's used by the gods". Anyone else can get it with the right training, but that's mostly predicated upon knowing that it exists. Thing is, the gods reasonably keep knowledge of it under wraps.

This is never implied to be the case and it makes as much sense as a Saiyan training to have Namekian regeneration. The simple answer is "Saiyans are special shut up".

>>787868

>>787882

It is not happening. DBS is just taking the most superficial aspects of DBZ and changing hair color to pretend that they didn't just use the same power up 5 to 6 times.

I really wish that they would address why nobody else bothered to learn the Kaio-Ken, the Spirit Bomb, or the Instant Transmission (besides the badguys that learn it instantly). Also, did Zamasu magically learn to use Instant Transmission or did he just use the Supreme Kai variation?

The Zamasu arc didn't needed to have Goku Black if it isn't trying to appeal to people that genuinely think Evil Goku is a cool villain idea.

>>787973

>Didn't need Goku Black

If Goku Black had been Goten instead, it would have been a lot more interesting. Would have made the Trunks and Goten dynamic more interesting. Would have had a better father son dynamic with Vegeta and Goku having daddy conflicts. Would have made Goten fucking useful or atleast doing something. I would say it writes itself, but time traveling story lines man...

>>788357

>I think they touched up on why during the Hit-Goku fight, since it drains a huge amount of stamina to use.

It more like using it with SSJ is suicide and using it with SSJB is fucking with his body.

>The Spirit Bomb has a niche usage, requiring a fuckload of energy from one multiple sources to be channeled by one guy that can't afford to be knocked out during the huge charge time, so putting it on someone who can fall in, like, two hits like Krillin is a waste of time.

Do you know what is the point of the Spirit Bomb?

a) An attack that forces Goku's friends to defend his helpless ass when fighting an enemy that is too strong even for Goku?

b) An attack used by a weaker member of the team to compensate for lack of strength and used when stronger teammates are busy holding off the baddies.

>Really the only one they don't have an excuse for is Instant Transmission, which you would have thought Goku could have taught to Gohan while they were in the Time Chamber.

It took a long time for Goku to learn how do it and Goku isn't a very good teacher. Still they could have tried.

>>788369

>A long time to learn

If only they had a room that distorted space and time to make a year happen in the course of a day

>>788374

I know that that is why I said DBS didn't address why nobody else bothered to learn those things. I call DBS DBSimpsons; because instead of being a sequel to DBZ in the same way that DBZ was a sequel to DB, it was the second season of DBS in the wrong time slot and completely ignoring the original ending.

>>787155

And honestly, there is zero problem with 17 and 18 being massively weaker than SSJ Blue but about equalish with SSJ2. And that could easily still keep them competitve against most of the field, because think about it.

Frieza along was retard strength, that took insane amounts of effort and miracles for Goku to stand a chance against, even a little bit, and training from Kai, and even then it took another miracle to beat him.

Most of Frieza's name minions, from Vegeta to Ginyu, were over 1000x as strong as the entirety of Earth's warriors when Raditz made landfall. And at that scale, even minor percentile differences are large enough to be immediately and overwhelmingly lethal.

So even Frieza level villains and heroes would be rare, even on the galactic scale, for all universes. Outside of divine intervention and training programs and guidance to farm up strength rather than spend it, it would have been perfectly justifiable for the plurality, say slightly less than half, of the field to have *only* as much raw power as Freiza did when Goku defeated him the first time, in their base resting form.

It would have still warranted the Androids, Krillin and Tien being brought along, because even as distractions, a dozen Frieza's could prove deadly and dangerous, while providing a challenging and meaningful fight to them.

>>788172

>>788357

I've created a meme.

>>788397

This is why an ACTUAL TOURNAMENT, instead of this battle royale bullshit, would have been a lot better.

>>788398

10v10 matches with a loser's bracket, same time constraint, same battlefield and no repairs between matches.

Plenty of time to develop the newly introduced cast over multiple battles and commentary, create emotional connections and impact when erasure kicks in further into the arc.

>>788398

Yeah, but the Battle Royale could have still worked, by splitting focus and having their be two teams essentially. Goku, Gohan, Vegeta and Frieza in one team, and the other in the other team. Team 1 focuses on heavy hitters and protecting their own team 2, team 2 finds the scrubs and eliminates them as fast as possible, using a combination of numbers and dirty tactics and sheer power to overwhelm the weaker parts of other universes. And show a few other universes with a simiar strategy, other universes keeping everyone together and hoping to wipe out any opposing team as quickly as possible, and have two universes splitting up and just going HAM on everyone and hoping for the best. One universe being Cabba's and Hit's, the other being Toppo, Jiren and the strongest members of their club, plus some of their villains.

And show these two teams wrecking havoc on other universes' strategies one way or another. Show Hit and Kale(who should have Caulifla and have no Kale, just Caulifla the girl Broly, she can have Cabba as a sibling but whatever) individually shrecking an entire team, Kale wrecking the Furry team and Hit wrecking a serious face team. Show Frost fighting his way through some weakish opponents before being forced to run off in search of friends, show Cabba and Caulifla wrecking whoever they can and then running off when things get hard.

And show Jiren's team being quickly responsible for two universal knockouts of the next strongest teams, with Goku and company feeling the power from those fights and being no kidding scared...and never not being scared about ths, not to the end of the arc. Just genuinely terrfified when he realizes that 6 fighters who could have all handed him a defeat were eliminated by a single team. Have Frieza outright contemplate an attempt at surrender, and Team 2 to have Piccolo point out that they would be useless against that kind of power, as fighters with that strength could eliminate them with a backhand, so they should focus on eliminating weaker members and then just run for it.

And have it shown that through it all, to the closing of the first, completely chaotic half, Jiren's team only loses a single member. While Hit's team is reduced to himself and TittyBroly, having eliminated one full team, eliminated a teams worth of fighters, wrecked the strategy of everyone remaining becaus now every remaining universe is gathering up their strongest fighters instead of splitting them up.

And then its a fight between Jiren's team and literally everyone else as everyone realizes it just isn't happening as long as Jiren's team is still around. With the 3 weakest of Jiren's team assigned to essentially clean up duty, while the remaining six fight battles ranging from four v one (Jiren) to two on one.

Include Ultra Instinct, but then show Jiren, in slow motion, boosting himself up and catching Goku's arm and then punching Goku in the side of the ribcage hard enough to break a hole in it, knocking eliminating him.

Then Goku throws his remaining energy at Vegeta, not Gohan because Gohan is using Super Mystic Saiyan because he figured out how to bring out the power of the oozaru without the transformation, and Vegeta using the distraction to blast Jiren in the chest with the mother of all chi attacks, burning through his clothes and singeing Jiren and knocking him into the knock out barrier while showing that with more space, Jiren would have been able to halt the blast and then deflect it, oh well, eliminated anyways.

Then move on to now with Jiren eliminated, but only like 7 fighters total. Vegeta and Frieza for team Goku, Gohan engaging in a mutual elimination with two other fighters, Toppo for Jiren's team, Cabba's team out, 1 fighter from another verse and two fighters from another universe but the same one.

But this? nah, wasn't chaotic enough.

>>788409

Oh and Frieza makes a point to Vegeta that they are the same height, and addresses him with a respectful honorific....calling him King Vegeta.

Bam, hilariously disgusting abomination fusion. And victory.

>>788411

Before they fuse, Vegeta lets out some smartass remark, that Frieza "won't like it" joining minds. Then after the fusion ends, it turns out that all the decades of repressed rage Vegeta had spilled over into Frieza's mind and rendered him brainwiped and catatonic.

>>788442

What the fuck? Cease this.

>>788450

Masterful contribution you've made to this thread.

>>788409

It being chaotic was precisely the reason why it couldn't be done. They level of writing to actually make such a thing flow smoothly instead of just being a disjointed, meaningless clusterfuck is beyond Toei, especially because they're probably making shit up as they go rather than having any sort of precise "plan" for the rest of the arc. That's why a bracketed tournament would have been both entertaining, and practical to write because it's so simple. It's a formula that has essentially defined the genre, and then all of a sudden they think they can buck it this hard? Idiocy.

>>788461

Wouldn't have taken much, just some willingness to give someone other than Goku some meaningful screen time, and some willingness to acknowledge logic in relation to power levels. Like at all. Like, why the fuck was Goku going Blue every time?

>>788390

>DBSimpsons;

That's never going to catch on any more than something like DBSalmon.

>>788369

>

b) An attack used by a weaker member of the team to compensate for lack of strength and used when stronger teammates are busy holding off the baddies.

All a baddie needs to do in this case is spare an AoE attack then and take out the guy charging.

The build-up makes the technique too un-viable to use. The only reason that Goku learned it was because they couldn't figure out a way to do anything else to the Saiyans, before they had access to three+ Super Saiyan at any given moment.

>>788649

Best boy going all out!

>>788649

Vegeta is not getting eliminated? Awesome, my boy isn't going to job like a little bitch.

>>788679

If Toei and Toritoyo want to commit to giving Vegeta more love, which is something Toriyama said he wanted to do, then they've gotta keep him in until the end. Frieza is gonna be the victory bringer because he's still in the ring, so we don't need Goku to solo Jiren to win. I'm hoping for Gogeta to show up because it'd be a good way to give Goku his mandatory dicksucking and give Vegeta involvement in the huge final battle we're approaching.

>>788592

>That's never going to catch on

I'm not the one who started that and not the only who noticed that no one besides Gohan and Videl (so that they can have Pan) aged.

>>788592

>The build-up makes the technique too un-viable to use.

So why do they keep using it? Honestly, it isn't consistent why your previous argument. Besides, what is stop someone charging it while behind something? If a bunch of weaklings can protect Goku long enough to charge the attack, why can't Goku protect someone else who is charging because he is the main character.

>>788649

No.

>>788398

>This is why an ACTUAL TOURNAMENT, instead of this battle royale bullshit, would have been a lot better.

>>788461

>It's a formula that has essentially defined the genre, and then all of a sudden they think they can buck it this hard? Idiocy.

Tournament arcs stop becoming interesting after Goku won the World Martial Arts Tournament. DBZ didn't have a true tournament arc because Goku is too far ahead. Yet DBS had TWO tournament arcs.

God damn it! Why couldn't the manga just completely diverge from the anime? People are already used to that stuff already. Did anyone have that Tweet saying that the Zamasu arc was ending differently in the manga?

>>788165

>If Goku Black had been Goten instead, it would have been a lot more interesting.

And Goten became evil because?

>>788711

Well that's good, makes DBS more interesting.

>>786861

He-Man and Skeletor.jpg

>>788760

>at some point he gets a girl friend, and catches the not gays

Well, they retconned GT out of existence. Now they've both caught a terminal case of Peter Pan Disease but they still might be gay, dunno.

>>787340

He's banging and making babies with one of the smartest women in the universe. I think Vegeta's good.

>>788786

If she's so smart, why doesn't SHE make killer androids that are as strong as Saiyans?

It's been a full week and I can't shake the memory of Frieza yelling 'BUT CAN YOU TAKE A BLAST THAT CAN DESTROY A PLANET' at Jiren.

>>789169

I doubt Frieza was expecting to get overwhelmed by the hakai attack so easily. Toppo was in enough control of it that it wouldn't have killed him. It just shows that Frieza really can't stand up to hakai that's meant to erase him. His attack in his base form was just him losing his shit. It was a serious humiliation and he had to be saved by 17 too. I'm really curious if they'll build on this at all, because it does have a lot of potential.

>>788957

Are there more of these Toppo edits? I really like them.

>>789169

>>789178

Frieza could really develop from that, yeah. He got the smug humbled right out of him.

>>789218

>>789239

Cheers anons, I'll do some work with this.

>>788957

>Artificial plot tension, and that's it.

Now you are changing it from how it should have worked to how it does work. Not only that, it contradicts your previous argument.

>I'm not the one who started that

<Caring what people think of you

>Reddit confirmed.

All that I said was I didn't started that. It isn't a unique observation that nobody ages and DBS is just a shittier version if DBZ. It is DBSimpsons because it is just DBZ season 2.

By the way, Goten being Goku Black is still retarded. Honestly, you really think that an evil version of adult Goten going to a timeline where he wasn't born makes any sense? You might as well say that the RR Army decided to make an android clone of Goku (I could make up a reason but whatever).

>>789268

I'm glad Ultra Instinct Shaggy is still getting some love.

>>789527

>Now you are changing it from how it should have worked to how it does work

<Stop dismantling my headcanon with canon.

The discussion was why they didn't just learn those abilities not why the writers want to keep those abilities exclusive to Goku.

Maybe learn to read faggot.

Toppo is gone and he got overwhelmed by Vegeta. It was an ok end, but it really needed more build up. The conclusion came way too fast, but there aren't that many episodes left either. I have a feeling Jiren is going to get wrapped up pretty quickly as well.

I'm hoping that the Super manga keeps going after this, so that it isn't held back by the show. Let the manga continue on for like a year and then bring the show back. Then again, the manga does have the benefit of improving on what the show fails at.

Frieza is currently mia, so I'm sure he's going to pop up at the last moment and get the wish somehow. It's the only logical way to start the cliffhanger other than Jiren winning.

>>789833

I was hoping Vegeta was going to do something new with his self-destruction attack. Like take all that energy and harness it into a beam or something. Not a bad callback though, and we got more development of Toppo and Vegeta.

If you pause the preview when Jiren grabs 17, you can see his uniform has a hole on the back. Curious to know who put that there seeing as Frieza didn't make an appearance after getting blown up. It was surprising that he showed up again this episode instead of remaining knocked out, he's at such a high level of stealth that he's managed to avoid appearing in the previews.

Not a terrible episode, it's great seeing 17 is still hanging in there, Vegeta's power is sourced from being a family man and Goku called out Jiren for being rude to Toppo before getting kicked out of SSBK.

I hope the manga keeps running too. With it being a monthly and still catching up on the tournament though, it might not get enough time to overtake the anime. Then again, we don't have a time-frame for the hiatus so maybe it will get there. We've got the movies coming out, so I reckon Super will pick up again sometime after mid-2019.

>>789779

>The discussion was why they didn't just learn those abilities not why the writers want to keep those abilities exclusive to Goku.

I explained why that didn't make sense in-universe, and you ignored it. I gave you a reason why it isn't just go-to, and you ignored it.

I honestly don't know what to tell you except to go back to Reddit.

>>789838

Every other character besides Tien had their own little happily-ever-after in DBZ except 17, so it seems like they're trying to make up for lost time.

So I guess we're going to see shirtless Vegito.

>>789842

>I explained why that didn't make sense in-universe

>>788957

>Artificial plot tension, and that's it.

Great fucking explanation there faggot. The other things that you mention are also shit. The Spirit Bomb is still a powerful attack and Goku learned to make it stronger everytime he use it in DBZ. The villains that were hit by it were severely injured by it. Why did you bring up shit arguments like >>788357

>The Spirit Bomb has a niche usage, requiring a fuckload of energy from one multiple sources to be channeled by one guy that can't afford to be knocked out during the huge charge time, so putting it on someone who can fall in, like, two hits like Krillin is a waste of time.

when Goku has to be always protected when he uses it except with Jiren who just let him do it?

You claim to know a little too much about Reddit.

Who is ready for Gogeta to enter canon?

>>789875

>It's disappointing that GoD Toppo didn't stick around for longer, but that's to be expected with the limited number of episodes left.

Would have been simple to make him go GoD earlier in the arc, did not need an entire episode or 3 dedicated to team lesbian furry/beachball/handjob.

So as quick as he arrived, GoD Toppo is out. Pretty lame really. I liked the callabck attack jeetz did but was more interested in his buildup attacks, basically covering his hand with "expendable" SSJB energy, which would get nullified by the Hakai energy but act as a blocker to let his physical punch go through. That was clever.

Jiren max power looks, underwhelming as well, even though it's still early. The preview basically showed him just with a bigger glow. Boring.

>>789916

I am

>>789880

>Great fucking explanation there faggot.

<Blatantly ignoring everything else that follows just to have an excuse to complain

Pathetic. You're acting just like how Redditors think chan posters act.

>The Spirit Bomb is still a powerful attack and Goku learned to make it stronger everytime he use it in DBZ

Name two villains killed by the Spirit Bomb.

Name two villains that were killed by a Kamehameha wave.

Which list is quicker to construct, and which of the two attacks is widespread among members of the Z Fighters?

>when Goku has to be always protected when he uses it except with Jiren who just let him do it?

If you're so butthurt that you can't even type in English, then don't don't bother typing at all.

As for your actual "protection" bullshit, I already dismantled it... >>788957

>If Goku can hold off whatever threat is needing a bomb, then why not just train Goku in that timeframe to be more powerful or learn something that doesn't require him to stand still? Hell, the entire thing is a niche attack that requires that somehow you're fighting only a single target while on a team, so for battle royals like this it's all but useless

...Which you blatantly ignored since you don't have an answer to it, because you're retarded. Stop posting.

>You claim to know a little too much about Reddit.

Yeah, because of shitty cross-posters like you.

>>789917

>The preview basically showed him just with a bigger glow. Boring.

Can't really say that's surprising, since we have nothing to compare the power up to besides him opening his eyes slightly wider and having stuff explode in response. Toppo works as a better end-game than Jiran because at least we have something to reference his power to instead of just being told that he's super-powerful and only demonstrating it in small increments.

I sometimes really don't understand the characters.

Why did they think burying Giga Nigga Toppo under some rocks would be effective?

>>789940

>Reddit

You sure love talking about that shithole.

>Which list is quicker to construct, and which of the two attacks is widespread among members of the Z Fighters?

I guess that the Instant Transmission is shit too by that logic. Next you are going to tell me that Goku is the strongest Z Fighter.

>I already dismantled it

You didn't. I'm not going to keep greentext your post to poke holes into retarded reasoning if you are going to be a giant faggot about it.

>>789916

They didn't train the dance.

>>789992

It probably works on big animals. Really he should've used that opportunity to get some damn distance.

>>789995

>They didn't train the dance

Please. You think that'll stop them? It'll have Whis shit bricks because they'll move in synch without thinking about it.

>>790006

Hopefully that Nappa gag won't get me banned.

That's a good point, but just you watch as Gogeta emerges from bullshit. Or maybe they're gonna surprise us and have an actually decent ending where they don't just scream a bunch and overwhelm Jiren.

>>790014

I think 17 is using his barrier to hold back some attack Jiren unleashed to wipe the arena. Curious to see how Goku and Vegeta get their shit slapped again.

>>790020

>Curious to see how Goku and Vegeta get their shit slapped again.

Vegeta is likely too tired from fighting Toppo Morado.

Goku won't be able to fight against serious Jiren alone so he gets his shit slapped. 17 is just trying to stall until the time limit is up. He'll probably fall out next episode, but it'll be enough that Jiren won't be able to throw the others out before the times up so U7 technically wins but Jiren is still stronger than everyone so Goku has someone to surpass.

>>790031

>but it'll be enough that Jiren won't be able to throw the others out before the times up so U7 technically wins

This is the likely conclusion, as long as there isn't a fusion/new form there will be no one able to beat Jiren.

My prediction is that Vegeta and 17 will be eliminated in the next 2 episodes.

And we will get the Freeza & Goku vs Jiren fight, which was already foreshadowed months ago with the DB Heroes trailer.

>>790014

>Honestly, it doesn't look that good for U7, Vegeta can barely stand, Goku is tired and 17 is wounded.

Goku got his shit slapped halfway through the tournament and fought Caulifla to STOP being tired. They had just said Vegeta lost ALL of his energy using that blast and yet in the preview we still see him go SSB+ fighting yet again.

Stop being delusional and pretending there is any logic or consistency to these sorts of things. It means nothing, and the writers can take it anywhere they want.

>>790116

/ourprince/ actually digging deep and getting a win. I really enjoy Vegeta's whole character arc, much more interesting than Goku's.

I'm rewatching DBZ right now and I gotta say that the filler content is more fun that the main episodes.

Is super similiar?

>>790144

>Filler episodes

I miss those.

>>790147

Aw fuck.

>>790144

There are a few episodes like that in Super, like the one with Yamcha playing baseball against Universe 6, and they are generally more enjoyable than some of the main episodes. And i'm not the kind that enjoyed the filler in DBZ too much

>>789995

Just shut up already.

>>790117

>I really enjoy Vegeta's whole character arc, much more interesting than Goku's.

The best thing about that is you don't even need to be talking about the ToP for that to be true.

>>790447

That's true.

>>790116

I enjoyed this more than Goku going Ultra-Instinct for in-universe about 10 seconds. I can imagine this vindicated a lot of Vegeta fans feeling left out.

Also what's with Vegeta's eyes?

>>790515

>Also what's with Vegeta's eyes?

They're different because he's Super Saiyan Blue 2. It's the only possibly way he'd be able to have the same power level as Goku SSB+Kaioken.

>>790525

Is Kawaii Vegeta more powerful than UI Goku?

>>790536

Ultra Instinct Goku has the advantage because he can just out manoeuvre everyone. Whether or not he can actually hit harder remains to be seen, given that Kefla said his punches weren't shit.

>>790536

Based on how they had set up the fight with Jiren earlier, it looks like the form is comparable to x20 Kaio-ken SSB Goku while they were fighting him alongside one another. So in one sense, Vegeta finally found a solution for Kaio-ken SSB he'd been looking for since the first multiverse tournament.

But it is also a mostly unexplored form that could have some unique abilities. The dark blue aura he can selectively use is particularly of note there.

It's unclear if Vegeta neutralized the Hakai energy by putting energy around his fist that got destroyed without touching his actual body, or if the blue aura around is fist was able to negate the Hakai though special qualities. If the later, it may have some other uses/qualities as well. But that's all speculation.

>>790536

>>790556

I'd say the tldr is Vegeta is Kawaii Blue is weaker than UI Goku, but probably not outclasses entirely. Which is basically always Vegeta's permanent state of being, so that checks out.

>>790556

I sepeculate that the dark blue energy is highly concentrated god ki.

That's also the reason it can withstand GoD ki.

>I'm pretty sure that this was the first glimpse of Vegita's future as a God of Destruction.

I don't think Vegeta will turn into a GoD, such a role would likely turn him into a side character.

And with Freeza we already have a character who's better fit for the GoD role.

>>790591

Frieza enjoys it too much. Then again, Beerus didn't really give a fuck about things so.

>>790597

>Then again, Beerus didn't really give a fuck about things so.

And he controls the Universe with the second lowest mortal level. Not to mention how he nearly destroys the universe in fight with Goku.

>>790144

>I'm rewatching DBZ right now and I gotta say that the filler content is more fun that the main episodes.

I don't feel the same way.

>Is super similiar?

The Yamcha episode was the only good episode in DBS but DBS also gave us Jello Vegetawhich no one liked.

>>790581

>I'm pretty sure that this was the first glimpse of Vegita's future as a God of Destruction.

It is hinted that he doesn't want to be one either. Whis offered training if he promise to be one.

>>790600

I think that was mostly about assuming the mantle and responsibilities, though. I don't think he'd have a problem with obtaining the power without the extra baggage of a mandatory job.

Just realised Vegeta does a Ki infused punch in his first fight with Goku.

It's around the one minute mark.

>>790581

That would be interesting, but I can't see it realistically happening. Vegeta won't go gallivanting about the galaxy blowing up shit, when he has a family on Earth to go back to. If offered the post of GoD, he would flatly refuse it. Anyone's going to do that, it's going to be Frieza.

I could see them all splitting off in one way or another, though. Goku goes with finesse through UI, Vegeta goes with ki control through increasing SSB levels, and Frieza goes with raw power through hakai. Put them together and you've got a pretty good three-man band. They can then re-do GT, going across the Universes searching for the Black St— I mean the Super Dragonballs. Would be pretty entertaining, and would actually give a decent reason for them to be getting into fights with all sorts of people everywhere.

>>791476

So will it just be a "Goku wins and wishes everyone back" sort of deal? Or will we get what >>786538 suggested?

>>791528

It'd be better but dragonball stopped caring about taking dangerous ventures ever since they got pressured into having Goku revived and Gohan shuffled to the back again after the Cell saga

>>791528

Well no traces of Frieza in the spoilers, so yeah that could happen. Still, I was hoping to see Ultra Blue Mastered UI Vegito and still not be enough to beat Jiren, just to show how colossal of a threat he is. Wait that does beg the question, how the fuck did Zamasu beat Jiren? I mean he must've beaten Jiren if he killed all the gods, I doubt Toppo would've let that slide.

>>791591

I don't think Zamasu killed Jiren or Toppo.

Zamasu likely just killed the gods, and then moved to U7 to start the extermination of all mortals.

We don't even know if it's possible to move between the universes without specific tools or techniques, so the Pride Troppers might have been stuck in U11 while Zamasu was in U7.

>>791476

Post the spoilers, please.

>>791601

Zamasu exterminated the Kais to kill all the GoDs. Presumably the Grand Priest didn't notice or didn't have anyone worthy of replacing them. What the fuck was Zamasu's plan for fighting Jiren? Surely he'd be aware of him to some degree.

>>791601

Well it's obvious the gods of universe 11 are homies with Toppo and Jiren, so I'd imagine that at the very least Toppo would've noticed.

>>791660

I hope this is the case of, oh the spoilers are fake, and Vegito is a thing. Just like OHOHOHO lizard supposedly being a turncoat really early in the tournament.

>>791667

>Well it's obvious the gods of universe 11 are homies with Toppo and Jiren, so I'd imagine that at the very least Toppo would've noticed.

The show didn't bother to even explain how he collected the planet sized Dragon Balls.

>>791668

Well the show didn't need to explain it, it really doesn't matter to the story. Neither does the point I'm bringing up either, just one of those things they and almost everyone else overlooked because who cares, look how super stronk Jiren is, wow.

>>791667

>Toppo would've noticed.

I agree that Toppo would have noticed it, but that doesn't mean that Toppo knows who killed his Kai or where the person is.

Zamasu has instant transmision and the kai teleportation technique.

> the spoilers are fake

Almost impossible, the Jump spoiler for 128 is 100% confirmed, and it fits all the other spoilers.

The fake Freeza spoiler was a guy at 2chan and people took his word, but for the current spoilers we already have the Jump scans.

>>791671

The manga had Zamasu intentional go to a timeline when Beerus is gone. I think it has more to do with Beerus noticing Goku's death than how strong Beerus is. However Zamasu can literally wish for anything.

>>791660

So 17 goes out in 127, Vegeta goes out in 128, and Goku masters Ultra Instinct in 129 and presumably beats Jiren in 130. God, how predictably boring.

Except they're deliberately omitting Frieza, to the point of saying only Goku and Jiren are left in 128. Either he goes out like a bitch in 127, in such a way that it doesn't even need to be mentioned in the summary, or they're holding onto him until the end for some twist finish. One can hope it's something like that, if nothing else than to deny that faggot Goku the satisfaction of winning.

>All this mention of Zamasu going to other universes

Was this something that happened in the manga, that I missed? So far as I remember it, he didn't need to go to other universes because the Super Dragonballs were all conveniently in U6 and U7. What's this about him killing all the other GoD, too??

>>791705

>What's this about him killing all the other GoD, too??

The anime made it pretty clear that Zamasu killed all the Kaioshin, which would automatically kill all the GoDs.

But there has been no mention of Zamasu killing all the mortals in the other universes.

So he might just have teleported to the Kaioshin, killed them and then moved to U7 to start his Zero Mortal Plan.

>>792664

Looks like his eyes are escaping his head.

>>792664

Where's that image from, anyway? Episode leak?

>>792825

Yeah, DBS's twitter puts out some screen caps on the day the episode is releasing.

Press F to pay respects.

Here's to you, Frieza's pride.

The episode was good, and 17 showed that he truely is the MVP.

It's interesting that they didn't show the "evil" which beat young Jiren.

This makes it likely that said evil is still alive, but inactive or perhaps in another universe.

Nest episode is base Vegeta against Jiren who probably has forgotten that there's a timelimit.

This was a pretty damn good episode. Android 17, the TRUE MVP of this arc.

>>793235

>17 is the real MVP

He really was amazing this arc. It is interesting that the evil is alive. I wonder if that will segue into a demon world arc?

>>793310

What if it is El Grande Padre?

>>793318

It isn't happening. It is more likely that it is Belmod if we were to guess from the manga. The manga didn't deviate too far the anime even when it should.

>>793310

Jiren is Superman and Belmod is the Joker after he gained 5th dimensional powers so of course the evil is Belmod .

>>793331

It's probably Belmod.

So, if 17 was willing to sacrifice himself to help the others, why didn't he let himself get killed with jiren's attack and actually win the tournament?

>>793392

I assume it would have counted as suicide.

High level Dragon Ball fighters are able to feel the intent of attacks/moves.

The Grand Priest would have been aware that 17 was trying to disqualify Jiren.

Especially with the Zeno's being whimsical with the rules, it wouldn't be smart to rely on a technicality.

>>793392

>So, if 17 was willing to sacrifice himself to help the others, why didn't he let himself get killed with jiren's attack and actually win the tournament?

Nothing indicates any of them would have been killed by the attack any more than any other full power blast during this entire tournament by any other person. They just would have been blown off the stage if he hadn't done that. He opted to save them instead of survive himself, because they're stronger than he is.

It's a complete joke that Vegeta was able to go back into his Kawaii Vegeta form almost immediately after using all his energy + life energy to throw out Toppo.

>>793441

>this

17 saved Frieza in order to give u7 a chance. He knew while fighting Toppo that he didn’t stand a chance. Frieza can’t sense energy, but 17 can. 17 knew from the get go that he would have to rely on the others to save u7.

>>793546

It’s near the end of the arc and Toei is rushing like crazy.

>>793410

>The great evil was time travelling Goku Black

Really though, that's it? Jiren is just some asshole who stopped caring about anything but strength because his friends were a bunch of pussies? That's why he's so powerful? That's why he's above the GoD? I don't like it. All the ideas that were more interesting like, he was a survivor of the destroyed universes and harbouring a major grudge against Zeno so he was trying to become strong enough to get vengeance. Or, Jiren was close to mastering Ultra Instinct and that's what put him over Belmod. Or, Jiren was some sort of creation by Belmod, like a blackhole made into a mortal form or something. Just gone. It's entirely because Jiren got salty that some random evil guy kept coming back and beating him and his friends up. Unless there's more to it, it's a bit disappointing.

>>793549

>17 saved Frieza in order to give u7 a chance

Which is hilarious to think about in Freiza not taking advantage of 17 stalling with barriers to get a cheap shot at Jiren, especially to attempt a lethal hit, all for the sake of dramatic tension.

>>793667

>It's entirely because Jiren got salty that some random evil guy kept coming back and beating him and his friends up

Anon, I'm not going to disagree, but your wording is hilarious. It's like some dude just saw Jiren leave the village for five minutes, then told him "it's just a prank, bro" while standing over his family's corpses, fucked off for a decade, then did the exact same thing again except with a few of Jiren's friends.

>>793410

>>793667

If it was Goku Black, Jiren would've flipped his shit upon seeing Goku and trying to get answers. It's got to be something else and they're just re-using the silhouette. It's a fucking silhouette with red eyes, basically nothing more than a bad guy icon that can apply to every villain ever.

>>793672

>It's like some dude just saw Jiren leave the village for five minutes, then told him "it's just a prank, bro" while standing over his family's corpses, fucked off for a decade, then did the exact same thing again except with a few of Jiren's friends.

I'm fucking dying here.

>>793672

Yeah, the Goku Black idea doesn't work from the outset. It'd be funny if Zamasu had gone to those lengths to shit up the universe though.

What I don't understand is why the evil kept letting Jiren live.

>All those people who argued Jiren was the real beacon of morality and Goku was the villain

>This episode comes out

>Jiren is a selfish asshole who leads people to their deaths for his own revenge, then endangers his entire universe and uses his friends as meat shields and patsies for that same revenge

Really makes you think about what he meant by this.

>>793693

It's weird. In the manga it seems like Jiren is a, "Get the job done" kind of guy, not really caring for the morality of things and just wanting to maintain peace. He wasn't going to join the tournament until he got told he could have his wish granted, because he wanted to stay in his universe and keep an eye on things.

Is his wish to get revenge? Or does he want his family back? He said he was seeking what lies beyond strength. I don't understand where his character is going.

>>793687

>What I don't understand is why the evil kept letting Jiren live.

I think it's going to be similar to Hirudegarn from Wrath of the Dragon. The great evil is within Jiren and pops up every so often.

Of course, Goku Black being responsible would have been a nice twist. It would give us a reason to revisit him and show that his extinction plan extended to Zeno himself or something that wasn't really stupid.

>>793693

To be fair, Jiren's personality wasn't really built upon in the anime at all until like the last episode or so. The heel shift just feels like Toei is rushing like mad (which they are). Toppo should have lasted longer. 17 was handled very well. Frieza is a wildcard right now. He has potential, but I'm not expecting too much out of Toei. Vegeta getting knocked out is going to be disappointing unless it's handled well. I can't help but feel that Frieza is going to end up taking Vegeta's place in the final fight against Jiren. The series has to end on a cliffhanger, so having Goku and Frieza left is the only real way to do it. Frieza betrays Goku (if he doesn't sacrifice himself to Jiren) and then we end Super on his wish.

>>793695

Manga Jiren and anime Jiren are two totally different characters atm. There is little really going on between them. I'm just hoping manga Jiren doesn't become as dumb as anime Jiren and with Super ending soon, the manga can go on its own for a while.

>>793696

>goku and frieza beat Jiren

>frieza betrays goku

>wins the super giant ultra world dragon balls

>stares straight at the screen

>wishes for super not to be canon

>the world is saved

>>793696

>>793698

More likely...

>goku and frieza beat Jiren

>frieza betrays goku

>wins the super giant ultra world dragon balls

>wishes to be higher than the zenos

>Starts new god-Frieza arc

>>793698

>>793701

If they wanted to really fuck with the audience, he'd accidentally wish that Beerus never woke up to fight Goku and effectively erase the timeline.

>>793667

Seriously now. There's been BILLIONS of people who have the excuse of "their entire family was murdered by some evil fucker, so they trained really hard and sought revenge". Hell, you could count Vegeta in there, and he got over it enough to accept the evil fucker who did it, on his team. This kind of "tragic backstory" just isn't impressive in anime anymore. It's boring. It's overdone. It has zero emotional impact, especially if you cram it entirely into thirty fucking seconds. It especially doesn't explain why this one particular guy is so stupidly powerful compared to the billions of others who had the exact same thing happen to them. Expecting us to believe this is appropriate in a franchise where evil tyrants genocide entire species and planets get blown up on the routine is simply INSULTING.

Whatever kind of backstory they could have come up with for Jiren, it couldn't have been worse than this.

>>793698

>Frieza erases Super from existence

>Toei retcons up a new series that is EVEN WORSE

Nice job.

>>793708

After Jiren's backstory reveal, I was waiting for Vegeta to tell him to get over it already.

>So what? Frieza erased the entire Saiyan race, but you don't see me crying about it...anymore

> 17, thanks to you I get it now. I know the secret to defeating the super duper unbeatable Jiren.

> We have to hit him really, really hard.

there goes that theory that you get stronger by training less

>>793546

Exactly what I was coming here to post. The writing is abysmal.

>>793729

I'm still disappointed they haven't done anything interesting with infinite energy, other than a big surprise energy ball (it worked because Jiren is big and it was a big attack) and a shield

>>793667

Yep, total waste of all that buildup. So many other more interesting ideas but this is Toei and we can't have that.

and did they ever explain that shield?

>>793726

I think they should've made it more about Jiren never having his guard up because he thinks he's untouchable. Instead of, "HIT HIM REALLY HARD."

Vegeta got a punch on him that did solid damage because he broke through Jiren's flurry and he didn't expect it. Jiren's weakness should've been that he's so strong he doesn't think to use Ki as a defensive measure, so trickery and surprise will work on him. The fight then becoming one part breaking through his attacks through teamwork and trickery and one part making sure the hit you land matters. No breaking through to land a simple punch to the gut, every attack should be with killing/knock-out intent.

It could be a nice callback and lesson learned moment for Goku who constantly drops his guard and fucking died for it.

I would like to also add that a very damaged, base Freeza kicking a powered up Jiren through several floating rocks is hilariously stupid.

>>793734

He should just sit in the back and shoot his heart-seeking lasers. I'd imagine after 50 of those Jiren would either be really dead or really pissed.

>>793730

What, bringing 17 up to God ki level by being alone on an island playing PETA enforcer against "man with shotgun" power levels wasn't enough? I like 17 but Super is so trash with its justifications my desk has several new head dents.

>>793733

Jirens entire buildup was of epic proportions. He should have been a force outside of training, something like the Super dragon ball dragon made into mortal form. Something no amount of regular training or coordination could overcome. Thats where I thought they were going with his story and why It would make sense only a power such as UI could overcome it, but here we are.

>>793722

Yeah, Jiren is actively fighting a team that has a genocide record and his excuse for being the be all end all of strength is that his family got killed. Gokus entire race was killed by the time he even started episode 1.

>>793549

>17 can

I thought the androids couldn't sense energy ?

>>793730

They did do something interesting, 17 never had to be knocked out like a bitch to recover and got to babysit Goku and Vegeta while they bitched out to recover.

>>793759

that "knocking out" mechanic is so goddamn pathetic

>a god candidate falls off a rock

>gets teleported to some bleachers

>sits there and watches the rest of the deatmatch

Maybe they're sending deleted universes to undergo a training regime in the training universe.

>>793762

Its going to be one big trick. They never wanted to erase everyone, they just wanted them to fight harder or some other bullshit.

>>793758

As far as I remember, he’s still organic and able to sense ki. Back near the end of Z, he could sense Goku and gave him his energy. I think he was training by that point and gained the ability to sense ki if he didn’t have it during the android arc.

Frieza could probably do the same thing and he may do so if the stomping that Jiren has been giving him finally knocks sense into him. His golden form isn’t shit against Jiren and he has to realize his place in the heirarchy eventually.

>>793766

I don’t know. Zeno is very non-challant about erasing people and things. He was destroying actual planets like they were toys right before Goku reminded him of the tournament. He erased several universes before we met him for the first time too.

>>793410

>>793667

>>793675

I didn't say it was Goku Black, I was using Goku Black as an example of them using the same imagery to conceal a

>character we have never met before

>>793803

>>793667

>It's entirely because Jiren got salty that some random evil guy kept coming back and beating him and his friends up.

And this part is canon, regardless of who it is.

Kind of late to bring Jiren a backstory, especially a generic one like that. Kind of wrote themselves into a corner if the only way they could hit Jiren was to hit harder or when he's unguarded. 17 had a good moment. The way it was animated, I didn't think he self destructed. It can't have been the bomb implanted by Dr. Gero because I'm pretty sure Krillin wished those away.

Funny they brought up the rules at this point so that Jiren doesn't get eliminated for killing. I was pretty sure at points they were flying and not just going real fast that it looks like it. Especially while they were on the side of the destroyed ground. Zeno could have easily ignored that for fun's sake or it was as fast as dyspo since it was shown that Zeno can't see anything that is faster than the speed of light.

They are really rushing towards the end after dragging it out for so long that I'm expecting a real trollish cliffhanger. I know they've hinted at something bigger with the angels but I'm not even sure that is even intentional at this point. If they are planning to do something, I think the best opportunity to do it would be sooner than waiting for the tournament to end when everyone is at their weakest and actually use the Super Dragon Balls for something really sinister.

>>793812

>I was pretty sure at points they were flying and not just going real fast that it looks like it.

The arena disrupts the flying technique, they can't fly even if they wanted to.

It's funny how literally nobody is discussing the fact that 17 is dead, because of how cheap and meaningless death is in this series. I'm surprised he didn't show up on the bleachers with a halo, because that's pretty much all the fuck that happens when you die in Dragonball. The only thing that's surprising is that he's literally the ONLY PERSON in this entire tournament who has died instead of being erased. Because of this, he won't be revived by the Super Dragonballs if the wish is to bring back everyone and everything that was erased. They'll have to go to back to Earth and ask Shenron. How inconvenient! Goten and Trunks get to babysit the island for a few more hours.

>>793946

Androids can't be wished back, he's gone for good.

>>793957

Anon, please reread Dragon Ball.

17 has already been revived once with the Dragon Balls.

>>793958

You can only be revived once with the dragon balls

>>793957

>cell saga after cell exploded

>majin buu saga after buu destroyed earth

>>793960

The New Namek dragon balls don't have this limitation.

>>793961

Once by the new Earth Dragon Balls and another with the new Namekian Dragon Balls.

>>793844

I could actually watch the fights now that I speed it x2 but they definitely didn't unlearn animating flight. The fighters use to have really fast leg work in the original DB. Now, it is just a long frictionless dash forward.

>>793410

>DBS fans really are retarded.

DBS is retarded.

>>793960

I thought Dende's version of Shenron changed that rule, but it doesn't really matter either way. 17 will get revived pretty damn quickly. In fact, it'll probably happen when they wish back everyone who was erased with the Super Dragonballs, because Toei is just THAT fucking incompetent.

>>793978

GT was better than Super. SSJ4 was an asspull, sure, but at least it wasn't a rainbow of different hair colors.

>>793960

Strictly speaking, he's a cybernetically-enhanced human, not a pure android. Hence why 17 can have a child. He was also revived after he died inside Cell.

>>793957

Dende's dragon balls, new rules.

>>794018

>GT was better than Super. SSJ4 was an asspull, sure, but at least it wasn't a rainbow of different hair colors.

< a fucking monkey form is better than different ki colors

A+ shitposting

>>794926

>SSJ4 takes advantage of a forgotten aspect Saiyan biology and incorporates the SSJ form into it

>SSJG just requires 6 non-asshole saiyans to hold hands

>SSJB is just fucking blue hair from training ignoring the ritual requirement from the previous considering Vegeta skips SSJG

>Toriyama is saving SSJ White for later.

No.

They shouldn't have said anything about Jiren's backstory. Now I can't imagine he's going to win, he's living his life incorrectly, and Goku has to fix that because power of friendship and trust and love and all these other things that aren't believing in absolute strength.

>>794946

>power of friendship and trust and love

Judging from how Goku acts in DBS, he isn't right person to teach that.

>>794944

I forgot SSJ Rosé which is functionally similar to SSJB but with the drawback making you look like a homo.

>>794944

> incorporates SSJ form into it

> looks nothing like SSJ form

> Just looks like monkeyfuck form with a human face

> doesn't even realize SSJB is SSJ for SSJG

> Forgot the part where Goku internalized the strength from SSJG during his fight with Beers

All fanbanter aside, you just have shit taste. GT is bad and you should feel bad.

>>794961

Super Saiyan Rose is what happens when you mix Super Saiyan with God Ki and PURE EVIL!

Or something.

>>794993

>I wasn't alive when GT aired, therefore it is automatically inferior because all new things are better

Sure thing, kid.

>>794993

<doesn't even realize SSJB is SSJ for SSJG

Remember when Vegeta jump directly to SSJ2 before getting SSJ1?

<Forgot the part where Goku internalized the strength from SSJG during his fight with Beers

That was just in the movie. That also doesn't explain why Vegeta being able to do it either.

Did you forgot that the Saiyans were monkey people? DBS is just a shitty rethread of DBZ with multicolored saiyans.

>>795025

Pretty sure Vegeta did the ritual at some point and we just never saw it. Not like that's important to see, really.

>>795033

So Vegeta who rejected Goku offer to let him be the center of the ritual preformed the ritual anyway with others before Pan was born then desperately ask Whis train him?

>>795022

I was alive when Dragonball, Dragon Ball Z, GT, and now Super aired, and only one of them was fucking unwatchable. GT is complete shit, and you are a retard.

>>795041

Its almost like Vegeta likes getting stronger or something.

>>795285

Pretty sure everyone is going to disagree with you, but go on thinking you're right. It'll only make me laugh at you harder.

>>795285

>Its almost like Vegeta likes getting stronger or something.

<I don't need help to get stronger, Kakarot!

<a few weeks later

<Hey, bring your sons and your daughter in law here. I'm going to turn SSJG to fight literally nobody.

You are thinking of the movie, again. It makes sense. Nobody would really defend DBS if they actually saw the BotG arc.

>>795296

t. monkeyfuck furfag autist

>>795319

It made sense for Vegeta to refuse a lame powerup, but after the fact it wouldn't make a ton of sense for him to ascend to the next level of his training.

>>795389

>It made sense for Vegeta to refuse a lame powerup, but after the fact it wouldn't make a ton of sense for him to ascend to the next level of his training.

Are you saying that he did the ritual or not? Because if you are saying that he did, you are wrong. Yes, SSJB is actually SSJGSSJ but there is no indication that Vegeta performed the ritual. For all we know, the ritual might not be the only method to get god ki. SSJB was just a lazy way phase out SSJG by having SSJG without the need of a ritual, the only thing that made it "special". Only later did they decided to let Goku use SSJG without the ritual.

Most people don't really like GT but you are faggot if you think DBS any better.

>ToP magically restricts non-wing based flying

>expects the show go back to having fast foot work

>everyone still moves around midair as if they could fly

Toei doesn't give a shit.

>>795398

>Most people don't really like GT but you are faggot if you think DBS any better.

DBS is actually way better, fag.

>>795389

>t. monkeyfuck furfag autist

It was at this point that you conceded the argument entirely by screaming like a toddler.

>>795560

nobody screamed at you. did those words reverberate in your head as though someone were screaming at you?

Not surprised. It isn't cool to be a monkeyfuck furfag autist.

>>795706

Are you that faggot that keep calling people redditors for thinking that the only reason why only Goku uses the Spirit Bomb is because its the Goku show and tried give a retarded excuse to why the Spirit Bomb isn't powerful enough to worth learning? Makes sense that you love Super Saiyan Red, Super Saiyan Blue, Super Saiyan Pink, Super Saiyan Green, and coming soon Super Saiyan White.

>>795502

The characters stay in the air too long for that to be the case and that doesn't explain the mid air dodges and air drives.

Goku Blanco is real.

100 por ciento ultra instinct.

>>795706

>ANIME SMUGPOSTING IS THE HIGHEST FORM OF ARGUMENT!

Do us all a favor and go bobbing for apples in a bucket of lye.

GOKU BLANCO CONFIRMED!!!

The episode was good.

Vegeta had a worthy end, he even helped Goku regain his stamina.

I found it funny that it looked like Goku is seeing Freeza as an actual friend or at least a person he trusts.

Next week there's no episode, some type of marathon is airing instead of DBS.

>>796208

>Next week there's no episode, some type of marathon is airing instead of DBS.

More time for the animation when it actually matters now?

>>796209

Zeno-oh has been a useless piece of shit that's done nothing but say the obvious and eliminate the losers since this thing began.

Man, is Jiren ever a retard. Keeps on punching and punching even though it doesn't do a damn thing. He must be aware of how kiddified Dragonball has become, or else he'd just shatter Goku's arms and legs, shoot him full of holes, and toss him over the side shortly before he dies.

Oh, wait, I forgot. He's doing it all on purpose! In the very end, it'll be revealed that he just wanted to test his own strength against a worthy opponent, and so had to push Goku to the limit so he'd activate Ultra Instinct. Of course.

Next episode: Goku The Grey transforms into Goku The White. Original character, donut steel.

Goku Blanco is a reality now.

Goku went Silver or White. I'm really expecting a double elimination with Frieza's corpse being the sole survivor. We can then end with his wish once he gets revived in a day or two and then Super can end on its cliffhanger.

Vegeta got a good ending. He knew that he didn't stand a real chance against Jiren, which is why he decided to do a 17 and buy more time to hopefully either cripple Jiren in some way or run out the clock. Technically, U7 can still win even if Goku doesn't knock Jiren out as long as Goku doesn't get himself knocked out as it's currently 2v1 in U7's favor. As long as Frieza stays unconscious/hidden, they'll be fine. Then again, Frieza really wanted to defeat Jiren, so he might pop up again and maybe take a knockout blow for Goku or pull a Vegeta and attack Jiren while he's engaged with Goku. It ends in two more episodes and other anons are saying there isn't going to be an episode next week. That makes me believe that we'll get a one-hour special send-off for Super in a few weeks instead.

>>796210

This weeks episode was fucking great. Vegeta's last stand and Goku's power up was so well done. Its probably going to go down among my all-time favorite Dragon Ball episodes.

>>796208

I think Zeno is just a gag character. Basically the most powerful character to Dragon Ball are the kids who watch it. Its not really a deep joke, but it has made me chuckle a few times.

>>796320

DBS ends in 3 episodes.

The broadcasting plan is:

25 February no episode

4 March episode 129

11 March no episode

18 March episode 130

25 March episode 131 end of DBS

>>796324

> Ending a successful anime at 131 episodes

> Company tries to calm angry crowds with assurance the series will continue

> with very successful accompanying game released recently

> Team Fag Star has recently said that they will not finish the buu saga due to changing circumstances

> noticing all these things happening at once

Are they preparing to sell Dragon Ball to someone we all hate?

>>796347

Maybe the voice actors are calling it quits. They're all old as fuck and one of their long term friends just died (not to mention they haven't had king kai in the series because his VA is also dying), they can't keep a show going when any of of them could drop dead at any moment. It wouldn't surprise me if they ended DBS and started spin off series without the main cast or they're biding time to look for copy-cat voice actors.

>>796377

It is for the stupid movie.

>>796245

Jiren is Batman. Goku is Superman.

>>796320

>We can then end with his wish once he gets revived in a day or two and then Super can end on its cliffhanger.

Why do you think that is a good idea or possible?

>>795457

>DBS is actually way better, fag.

Funny joke. Next you'll tell me that Jiren is cool and Hit has an interesting personality.

This writing is so horrible. Vegeta had a great moment, he gave his all and I really felt for him. He selfishly gave to Goku and trusted him, showing he cares for everyone more than his pride about beating Goku. We even get the last lines we will ever hear from the series by Hiromi Tsuru. Then all of a sudden everyone is patting him on the back like a puppy that didn't shit on the floor and they move on, completely ruining the moment. I wish GT was canon at this point.

>>795872

>>796199

I can't believe it. Every 14 year old's first fanfiction picture from the 90s became real. Copyright lawsuits when?

>>796324

>>796347

Grandma Goku said there were going to be a total of 700 Dragonball/Z/S episodes when they were done. As it stands right now: 153 (DB) + 291 (DBZ) + 131 (DBS) = 575

Why are people saying it's ending if they're just going on hiatus?

I wonder if we'll ever get a compilation of Krillin screeching everyone's name or an hour straight of zeno being an annoying shit

>>796323

>Annoying piece of shit

>It's just a gag bro chill out

Looking at Goku blanco, it seems it still uses his base hair and not his super saiyan hair, wonder if there's still a super ultra instinct complete Goku to get, and then Super ultra instinct complete Kaioken x20 Goku after that.

>>796245

To Jiren it's all trivial, to him neither Goku nor Vegeta could ever possibly defeat him, and he put Frieza on the floor in less than a second, so as long as he eliminates them all before the clock runs out he can approach it however he wants, there's probably a lesson about arrogance in here somewhere that we'll get at the end.

>>796731

>more dragonball coming down the pipe

What more can they possibly do, what story is there left to tell? I don't doubt it either, but I don't see where they can possibly go with the series next.

>>796377

Fifty bucks says that, when Dragonball resumes in another year or so, they'll pull a Boruto. All new characters so the current voice cast will get at best cameos until they die, a couple generations of Saiyans (and Saiyan hybrids) into the future. They'll basically try to completely rebrand the entire franchise for kids nowadays, instead of trying to cram the old characters into roles that they really don't fit in.

>>796852

>what story is there left to tell?

Since the end of Dragonball proper, there has NEVER been any more story to tell. Goku's narrative had basically run its course. Everything since they has just been "other shit that happened to Earth's greatest hero". The rest of the series has been, in order "ass-pull aliens attack for no reason", "ass-pull galactic warlord wants the dragonballs so he can warlord even harder", "ass-pull androids attack for no reason", "ass-pull bio-android from the future attacks for no reason", "ass-pull magical bubblegum demon attacks for no reason," "ass-pull new level of God attacks for no reason", "the same galactic warlord is ass-pulled into resurrection and attacks", "ass-pull alternate universe attacks for no reason," "ass-pull genocidal maniac from another timeline attacks for no reason", "ass-pull new NEW level of God declares a huge tournament for no reason."

See a pattern? None of this is a story. It's just a series of random events happening to the same characters.

>>796958

>There's already a new Dragon Ball movie being produced

The hell is it about?

>>796984

It will be about the origin of the Saiyans.

And is planned for December 2018.

>>796448

>everyone is patting him on the back like a puppy that didn't shit on the floor and they move on

He did one thing right after twenty solid years of fucking things up and making the villains stronger. How do you think they're gonna react?

>>796958

>April's Fools Jokes aren't announced in mid-January

Now that's what I call humour

>>797045

>and making the villains stronger

Everyone always fucking harps on Vegeta for this, as if so many other characters haven't done that exact same thing multiple times. Hell, Goku's done it MORE OFTEN.

>>797047

Japanese don't do april fool's day.

>>797235

>That's non sequitur, since it only confirms what we already know, not anything for the definite end of the series

From the rest of the context, it's obvious. I don't know what it is about the Japanese and not ever stating the obvious (especially when it's "bad news"), but you have to expect that sort of thing with them. You just DON'T hear about series cancellations like you do in the USA; they don't want to talk about it. Basically, if a teenager walks in and says "your car has just finished the current drive to the supermarket... but you said you were buying a new car later this year, and you still have your motorcycle. Your driving will live on!" you know goddamn well he's beating around the bush that he crashed the thing.

The fact remains, its timeslot is being taken up by another anime, and no other timeslots are opening up for DBS to slip into. An anime that is not based on a manga does not go on "hiatus"; it just ends. There are no plans to bring it back at this time, for at least a couple years in the future.

Really, it's pointless to debate on the semantics of what's happening. Most likely the Dragonball franchise will come back, in one form or another, some years down the line; you can't get rid of a cash-cow like that so easily, even if they have to completely clean house of the seiyuu and directors and completely rebrand it. Just like Star Wars. But whether it comes back as Dragonball Super (continued) or Dragonball Ultramegasupreme, it'll still be in 2020 or 2021; it's just a name!

The point is, it's going to be a long time. They're going to have to do something different when it returns. Maybe the DBS manga will continue on after it reaches the end of the ToP arc, but I doubt it. Despite often being objectively worse, popularity of the anime has been propping up popularity of the manga, and I don't really see Toriyama giving much of a fuck. Manga as a whole is following the trend of print media in a precipitous freefall. Seeing how Toriyama went AWOL on the Dragonball franchise for like 15 years after Buu, it seems pretty obvious that he doesn't care for the franchise that much.

Like it or not, it looks like Toei is holding the reigns from now on. And from this perspective, it seems clear that they aren't satisfied with how Super has been doing this last arc. Maybe the ratings aren't as good, maybe the criticism is too much, maybe they want to transition into doing only movies and maybe short OVA specials instead of a weekly serial. I don't know; but I am almost positive that it's not going to be business as usual with Dragonball from now on.

>>797284

>Basically, if a teenager walks in and says "your car has just finished the current drive to the supermarket... but you said you were buying a new car later this year, and you still have your motorcycle. Your driving will live on!" you know goddamn well he's beating around the bush that he crashed the thing.

And then the teenager says "it's not like it was in an accident" after only saying that he won't be driving for a bit.

If you need to invent so much specification for the comparison to work that Toei didn't say anything remotely similar to, then the comparison just doesn't exist.

Pics or it didn't happen.

>>797323

Just because you're incapable of reading between the lines, doesn't mean everyone else is. For me, it's as clear as if they had spelled it out. But for an era of retard children living in a "if it didn't happen to me, personally, it's fake news" world, I can certainly understand why you fail at it.

Why do you even care? What's your stake in this besides disagreeing with me and wanting to "win" the argument? DBS is objectively the worst the franchise has ever been, when you consider both plot and animation quality, and probably the worst if you just consider the writing. It's become the low bar by which an entire generation of people watching anime will compare others. At best, it's become a parody of itself and a constant punchline. Basically, it's the Donald Trump of anime.

Its timeslot is filled. It's not going to be airing anymore; it CAN'T be airing anymore unless Japan can figure out how to add another half-hour to the Earth's day. Is that simple enough for you to understand? I really hope so.

>>797619

>Trying to attack me personally doesn't prove anything

>So let me attack you personally

>Your arguments are bullshit

>So let me try to use them against you

Children, everyone.

You can't even spell "hiatus" correctly, and you still haven't addressed either of the following:

1) Shows that aren't based on a manga cannot go on hiatus, because there is nothing for them to adapt later on. There is no precedent for a scheduled multi-year break in an anime; they typically last for only a week or two because of holiday or some special, and their timeslots are not filled.

2) Whether it's a "hiatus" or it's been cancelled makes no fucking difference. It's going to be years before it comes back, and whatever name the next installment of Dragonball has (if there is one), also makes no difference.

I'm really sorry that you're an idiot and can't face reality, but Super isn't coming back for a very long time. Might not even be until after you graduate middle school! If there is no plan for a return, it's not a hiatus, it's a cancellation. There; I've managed to make it EVEN MORE SIMPLE for you. Bet you'll still refuse to get it.

>>797772

Dragon Ball isn't just another Anime. If they are cancelling the shit for good they would say something about it. There are plenty of good reasons for the cast to take a break right now. Everything you are saying is just dipshit speculation based on the idea that the biggest fucking thing out of Japan right now is being handled as something less than that.

>>797823

>the biggest fucking thing out of Japan right now

Is that why it has some of the worst writing and animation quality of anything coming out of Japan right now? Face reality; it's a dying franchise and they're doing only the minimum required to keep the cash flowing in.

>>797924

Just so you know, when you post a smug reaction image, it automatically means you concede every argument. You're basically announcing: "I can't debate worth shit, so I'm just going to call the other guy a faggot and hope this somehow scores me points".

As for you, there's nothing to debate. You've said literally nothing except "there is no proof that I am wrong therefore I am right," where here "proof" is "everyone working on Super telling me right to my face that it's definitely cancelled". You'll accept nothing else, or so you might claim; in reality, I come get God himself to say it and you'd still claim it's not good enough, because you're a childish obstinate bitch. You're the kind of person who will claim that the blur that is speeding toward you can't possibly be a car, if someone suggests it is, up to the point when it runs you over. Context of you standing on the road, application of Occam's Razor, the sound of an oncoming vehicle... nope! None of that is concrete proof enough for you.

Time will bear out the truth. Long after it buries this thread, long past when there aren't even any Dragonball threads ON THIS FUCKING BOARD, (because almost nothing is ever discussed unless it's currently airing or being published), long after your tiny shriveled brain forgets everything that happened, all will be revealed. That's really the saddest part about all this. When 2018 turns to 2019 and that shitty little movie they're working on comes and goes with the excitement of a wet fart, and when 2019 winds down to 2020, and Super still has not come back, nobody will ever be there to shove it in your retard face how you were wrong. It takes failure for children to learn from their mistakes, but unfortunately you'll be shielded from that. You're like a puppy that keeps shitting his bed, but nobody is ever there to punish him, so he can't ever get better.

>>797829

let me let you in on a secret

people on imageboards hate popular things

The animation is decent and the writing is on par with Z, which was never a great artistic achievement. Z is thriving, and for you to even begin to claim otherwise indicates you are just trolling.

>>798023

>You've said literally nothing except "there is no proof that I am wrong therefore I am right,

That is literally your entire argument.

>>798024

And before the retarded "gotcha," I meant Super is thriving, not just Z which is currently thriving through FighterZ alongside Super.

>>798025

>Super is thriving

I don't doubt it. For the anons above that questioned where the story can go now, the only place I can really see it going is either more diving stuff with Zeno and the angels or we could go to Demon world where Dabura and Janemba came from. The mmo covered a lot of that already, but it's yet to be done in the manga or anime. Piccolo could be the catalyst for it as well, considering he isn't really a Namekian per the manga.

>>798320

>Also, what in the world is with how they drew this shit.

Because apparently

>>798024

>The animation is decent and the writing is on par with Z,

This is the fanbase that thinks different hair color constitutes cool transformations.

>>798320

I finished reading the DB Super manga and it really is much better than the anime. It more than likely helps that fan reaction to the anime can be used to make changes in the manga. This means that stupid stuff gets cut out like Trunks one-shotting a fully powered Zumasa and Zumasa cloud. Instead we had Trunks splitting them apart and healing Goku and Zumasa created clones, which tried running away in fear once Zeno showed up. Having said that, the top arc is moving very quickly. I'm curious what changes will be made to Jiren's character? His background leaves a lot to be desired in the anime, so I'm curious how he'll get fleshed out in the manga?

>>798346

>I finished reading the DB Super manga and it really is much better than the anime.

And it is apparently non-canon because Toriyama's involvement was only used to prevent another GT.

>It more than likely helps that fan reaction to the anime can be used to make changes in the manga.

They also have to stick to the retarded decision as well. Toriyama didn't plan for Goku and Vegeta to fuse but ‎Toyotarō insisted to "meet fan expectations." While Frost isn't a nice guy even in the manga, it is looking like they going with the Freiza-lite route.

>>798974

>Being able to find frames of 'quality' doesn't make the animation terrible.

People only do that because it is easier to show. That scene also looked stupid animated. They still animated the characters as if they were still flying. Worse of all, this is their A-game.

>>798724

In the manga, Frost just didn't care about the u6 and u7 tournament. He also didn't want to get killed either, so he used the darts to end the matches quickly. His major crime in the manga is being a lazy cunt. In the anime, he's a deceiver and a manipulator. Once he gets found out in the manga, he doesn't even try to hide it. He just accepts the loss and moves on before Vegeta takes him on and beats him to near-death.

He could still be written differently than in the anime.

>fusion

I was okay with Vegito showing up again. Since Zumasu was immortal, their goal was really to outlast his fusion. Of course, Vegito went blue and burnt the shit out of his remaining time. Trunk's contribution made a lot more sense as well. He used his remaining ki to heal up Goku and even managed to force Zumasu to separate. Of course, it was funny to see Zumasu's reaction in the manga when Zeno shows up. He immediately knows that he's fucked and it becomes every Zumasu for himself. In the anime, he was some giant cloud monster and didn't even react.

>>799240

>nothing for slapping Bulma or blowing up planets for shits and gigs.

His job is to blow up planets. That's what he's expected to do. Vegito had enough power to overpower Beerus in blue form, but that lasted for like 15 minutes before the potara earrings were drained.

>>799077

That's unfortunate. I was hoping they would do something different with him like they kinda are starting to do with Jiren in the manga. I would assume that Frost is going to be written out just as quickly in the manga as he was in the anime.

As much as the manga is better than the anime. There were a lot of gems in the anime that aren't being shown in the manga due to how fast it's going. Yoshi dying, Piccolo and Gohan defeating U6 and U2's desperate final love attack against Goku, and many more probably won't get shown. I'm curious if we'll get any of 17's moments like when he interrupted Ribriane or took out their team flier or when he stood up to Jiren and Toppo to delay them. I want to see how Vegeta's final atonement is handled. I want to see if any of the humans will get more of the spotlight. I want to see if Gohan does more. I want to see if Frieza gets developed more after being beat down so badly and so often. I really want to see how they'll handle UI.

>>799140

Zumasu was just too strong for them. When he gained the ability to multiply, it was metal cooler all over again and they were just fucked. That's why Goku and Vegeta told Trunks to make a break for the past and hope that a miracle occured. The Zeno ending was foreshadowed when Zumasu was talking about abandoning Earth in fear of Zeno spotting them. As soon as he showed up, Zumasu knew he was utterly fucked and then they all tried to run away as fast as they could. The whole mortal extinction plan went out the window at that point.

Manga Zeno is also far more intelligent than his anime counterpart as well. In the anime, he's a dumb toddler with infinite power. In the manga, he acts like he knows what he's doing, but he's just super bored by it a lot of the time. Of course, I've yet to read the latest chapter, so that could all change in the following issues as well.

>>799140

>The entire arc was pointless anyway.

>They went through all the trouble to save the universe in that timeline only to "save" everyone by letting Zeno erase it.

The manga tried to fix this by saying that Zamasu found the time machine in universe 12 was going to fuck with the past, present, and future. Introducing Zeno was a mistake. How they introduced the concept of a multiverse is stupid. Having tournament arc to setup another tournament arc is stupid. The Super Dragon Balls are stupid. The U6 arc is the worst arc in the series for all the cancer that it introduced.

>>799240

>Did Beerus ever get his comeuppance for being a jerkass?

Never. In context of the series especially the anime, he was consistently terrible in his job. It is constantly hammered into the audience's heads that he is not evil but he isn't bounded by anything; morality, rules, or any strictly defined responsibilities. In the anime, he was one punch away from destroying the universe (twice). The first time was only prevented by Goku matching his punches' force and angle perfectly.

>>799370

The part where each timeline had its own multiverse, instead of the multiverse having multiple timelines, was the stupidest part. There should never have been more than one Zeno. How does that make sense? If they use the time machine a thousand times, and in doing so "create" a thousand new timelines, they created a thousand additional Zenos?

The time machine, a simple hunk of machinery created by a human, can CLONE GOD HIMSELF?! Are you fucking kidding me?? And people rail on Dr. Gero for being able to build androids stronger than Frieza. What is that, next to Bulma who built a machine that creates copies of the Creator? Bulma is literally more powerful than The Almighty in the Dragonball verse because of this bullshit.

>>799604

would you be satisfied if they kill off bumla for time travel fuckery?

>>799011

It was a frame from the preview of next episode trying to show insane speed. Looked better than that in action.

>>799694

>Looked better than that in action.

It looked like shit.

>>799604

Complain about time travel itself, not Dragon Ball

That trime travel creates another timeline is a very plausible theory even if it basically clones an entire universe.

>each timeline had its own multiverse, instead of the multiverse having multiple timelines

Isn't that pretty much the same thing?

>>799796

>Isn't that pretty much the same thing?

No. The difference is each timeline would be self contained inside each universe. You could have fifty timelines inside U7 because of the use of the time machine, and it wouldn't affect the other timelines at all. More importantly, it wouldn't fucking create multiverse-encompassing Gods out of thin fucking air, along with everyone else.

Think about it. When Zeno borked a timeline, he killed a version of literally everyone. The grand priest, his personal guards, all the angels, all the Gods of Destruction that Zamasu hadn't yet killed, every single character we've come to know during this tournament: Hit, Frost, Cabba, the girls, Jiren, Toppo, those love-freaks, the robots and their totally-not-Dr.-Myuu creator, the U6 namekians, and everyone else, too.

It's fucking stupid, is what it is. I understand they wrote themselves into a corner with this by having Zamasu come from another universe, and needing more than one Zamasu, but that was a bad decision. They could have just had timelines be self-contained, and had Zamasu be a Kaioshin apprentice from U7 and it would have worked out fine. As a bonus we wouldn't have to deal with having two goddamned Zenos saying the same shit over and over again.

>>799838

I'm sorry but I really don't get it.

Are you saying that Zeno (and the angels) should be beings that exist outside the timelines? Because in every other scenario you could have multiple Zenos by going to a different timeline.

>>799925

>The story isn't some updated real-time event, you'd have to be retarded to believe otherwise with how many episodes they have that took place in "two minutes.

Anon, have you never seen a shonen before? They all have time dilation. you retard

>>799925

It's not outside our realm of comprehension. In the REAL WORLD, it's assumed that any alternate universe outside our own would have it's own timeline and be unaffected by whatever the fuck happens here. Even if you could somehow travel between them, they're independent universes that might even have differing rules of physics from this one.

What it's like in Dragonball, it's actually wrong to call them "universes", because they function more like separate galaxies in the same universe. They're isolated by huge distances so you need to use godlike teleportation powers to get there, and they can be "erased" separately. But if you alter the timeline in one, you do so for all the others as well (and immediately, because fuck the speed of light I guess).

Really, the issue is that Toriyama has always totally lacked perspective on things like this. The way his cosmology worked before Super retconned everything, the ENTIRETY of U7 really was just one single galaxy. The only mention of another one was in the Brolly movie, and that was Toei fucking up. Each Kaio or Kaioshin was said to be a lord over one QUADRANT of the galaxy; there was never mention of anywhere else in canon. Also, Frieza notwithstanding, the idea that there's only a tiny handful of inhabited planets in an entire galaxy is laughably absurd, much less in an entire universe.

This has been mentioned before, but the fact that U7 gathered fighters from literally only one planet is completely ridiculous.

>>800236

>but the fact that U7 gathered fighters from literally only one planet is completely ridiculous.

3 (or 4) planets

Earth, planet Vegeta, (kind of Namek), and whatever Frieza's home planet is.

The Saiyans and Piccolo just happened to be on earth and Frieza is in space most of the time.

>>800236

>>800451

You're a fucking retard, you know that? You're saying they didn't gather Vegeta on earth, but instead from a planet that doesn't exist.

>>800500

Earth just seems to be a popular place in U7 where a lot of people are going to end up on.

Yes, they gathered all the fighters while they were on earth but that doesn't change the fact, that the fighters for U7 are originally from 4 different planets.

Vegeta, Piccolo and Frieza can spend as many years on earth as they want, but they will never be earthlings.

Everyone always makes it sounds like all the U7 fighters originated on earth, but that's just bullshit. They just happened to end up there.

Or are you one of those people that believe if a Mexican moves to China he will suddenly be 100% Chinese?

>>800506

>Earth just seems to be a popular place in U7 where a lot of people are going to end up on.

Ah, you're one of those people who can't recognize shitty writing when it's staring them in the face.

>Or are you one of those people that believe if a Mexican moves to China he will suddenly be 100% Chinese?

No one said they were "Earthlings" other than you, dipshit. We said "Gathered fighters from one planet". Try actually reading what you're responding to.

>>800511

>Ah, you're one of those people who can't recognize shitty writing when it's staring them in the face.

Yes, it is shitty writing. Making the universes basically nothing more than really small galaxies was fucking retarded, but considering how small the universes are makes it even more likely that there aren't any stronger species in U7 than the ones we already know of.

Also, U7 is the universe with the second lowest average power level, that even backs up that there aren't any stronger guys out there.

And even them ending all up on earth makes sense.

Goku is on earth because he was sent there to destroy it as a kid. that's just what the Saiyans did.

Vegeta is on earth because his planet got destroyed and he had no other place to be after defecting from Frieza's army

Frieza was on earth because he wanted to take revenge on the Saiyans and got killed while on earth, thus ending up in earth's hell.

I don't really remember why Piccolo is on earth exactly, just that he arrived there on this ship.

In short: they're all on earth because they have reasons to be there and U7 is very weak making it likely that there aren't any stronger people around.

And I bet suddenly introducing another strong species inside U7 would've been bad writing too.

>>800511

>No one said they were "Earthlings" other than you, dipshit.

Alright. It's just that every time I hear that argument it sounds like that is the implication.

>>800236

>In the REAL WORLD, it's assumed that any alternate universe outside our own would have it's own timeline and be unaffected by whatever the fuck happens here

String theory dictates that extra dimensions must exist even though we can't detect them.

It's the exact same shit, and beyond that, you can't depict the transcendence necessary in anime since we can't physically observe it.

>They're isolated by huge distances so you need to use godlike teleportation powers to get there, and they can be "erased" separately.

That's non-sequitur. If they were "galaxies," then they could be travelled instead of warped within.

>But if you alter the timeline in one, you do so for all the others as well (and immediately, because fuck the speed of light I guess).

Unless time was treated as a property of outside the multiverse in-canon, hence my point about Xenoverse.

Besides that, your gripe about the speed of light doesn't make sense since you're complaining about speed, which needs time in order to be calculated.

>This has been mentioned before, but the fact that U7 gathered fighters from literally only one planet is completely ridiculous.

Blame the fucking cat that blows up planets just for the local diner leaving him with a fishy after-taste.

Beerus could have been a stronger character if the ToP made him feel any real consequences for being a jerkass.

>Goku and Jiren are preparing for an epic showdown while it's been "one minute remaining" for like the last three episodes in a row

>Still no word from Frieza

It's going to come down to a stalemate or they're going to knock each other off, I just fucking know it.