/a/ - Animu & Mango

I usually vote it second or third in my surveys behind One Piece and whether or not HxH is in that weeks issue.

>>758981

I just use the app. Wake up every Monday morning and sit down and read Jump while a drink my coffee and get ready for work.

>>758977

Where are the new chapter? Niggerstream is living up to it's name and being lazy niggers.

>>759021

It literally just went up on ol' Nakanostream

>>759052

The priest family was clearly biased for magma though so it was likely an asspull. Even in a small communistic village, the leaders still fail at being fair, which is pretty ebin by itself as a statement.

>>759074

The Chief of the village and his cronies make little sense to me. They want a strong, reliable leader, but they go out of their way to tolerate Fagma and his goony little helper cheating and causing trouble all over the place, even though he shows no intelligence or capability to lead, let alone take care of the Priestess.

>>759085

It's projection from what I can see. The village thinks that magma will be the chat thundercock he was.

>>759085

>>759178

I think you're seeing this the wrong way. In a world where survival is everything, well survival is everything. Being a faggot who can win in a straight up fight but can't survive long enough to enjoy said victory isn't surviving.

>>759180

Because of all of the rules in place and the fact that they are doing the whole thing as a tournament, I don't think survivability and desperation play into this. The fact that they are disqualifying Kohaku for not being there on the exact moment and not budging on that judgement likewise shows that it's more about the rules and the ritual than any kind of total appraisal of abilities.

>>758977

I remember we had a thread about this near when it debuted, I found the Bill Nye wannabe and his fake "science" annoying enough to make me drop it, it was too bad because the setting and art looked pretty cool.

>>759230

Bill Nye wannabe is a bit harsh. Untrue too. Senkuu actually knows what he's talking about.

>>759230

It takes a little while to find it's footing, but Senku is far more of a scientist than Bill Nye will ever be. After they get the ball rolling and drop a lot of the catchphrases and some of the deadweight characters, it gets really good.

>>759230

>Bill Nye wannabe

>fake "science"

Are you retarded? I don't remember Senkuu singing about vaginas or ice cream rape, and there's no fake science in this at all.

E=mc^2 on his shirt is a bad choice but it's iconic, everything Senkuu did was %90 chemistry up until now and all of it is actual science(Except the stone hardened bodies and its cure, but that's a plot device to skip over a few thousand years). Can you give examples of the fake science you're talking about?

Looks like Colaboy is gonna save the day. Man, I really love how this series plays things.

So could we use spoilers until the official release on Mondays? I get most of you read scans but at least one of use subscribes and has to wait four days to catch up. It won't really effect anyone who is reading the scans but it will let that one asshole who pays browse the threads for more than three days a week.

>>764707

Best ending to a tournament arc right there.

>>764710

It didn't overstay its welcome, which is all you can really expect from a tournament arc.

>>764712

It only took 5 chapters, now we only need the epilogue, for Ginrou and Senku to throw their matches and we're done.

>>764713

I don't think things will go that smoothly.

At least I hope they don't.

>>764765

It went incredibly.

>>767166

Was was that txt box in the bottom right? Has that always been there?

>>767201

The little acquisition box that looked like a videogames text box on the last panel? I don't think so, but they've had the whole, "X acquired!" thing for a while.

>>764765

>Ginrou full scumbag mode

>More ball Crushing

>Senku is the new village chief in a twist

The tournament didn't really went the way anyone was expecting.

>>767241

Well, the Kingdom of Science still needs a King.

>>768402

Enjoy your ban.

>>768404

Please don't do this.

>>768402

Promised neverland isn't even in your top 3? To me it's consistently been the best thing on jump for a while now. I like Dr. Stone more but if I had to be objective about it I'd say neverland #1, Dr. Stone #2.

>>768402

>This chapter was kino.

Please return to wherever you came from.

>>772312

Senkuu is a legend. He's such a good friend. Bails on his marriage so Chrome can get Ruri. Steals all the booze and vinegar so he can make antibiotics but makes sure to make some cola during the process. Is he the #1 WSJ character of 2017? It's between him and Emma for me, personally I find him a lot more entertaining and having a surprising amount of depth too.

Someone confirm this "coriander + lime rind = cola" trick

>>772318

I immediately wanted to try that and see. Looks like there's some truth to it:

https://www.splendidtable.org/recipes/natural-cola

I know it's just a shonen manga but Senkuu's idea of making antibiotics is so weird to me. I suppose he's assuming Ruri has some chronic infection, but even chronic infections (like tuberculosis) will kill people relatively fast if untreated, and she's had her disease for years. Plus she'd have infected someone else at this point if what she does have is an infectious disease.

It makes more sense to me that she has some sort of autoimmune disease, like lupus. It would explain her being weak, coughing blood, having pains...

Senkuu should be trying to make corticosteroids to help Ruri, not antibiotics.

>>772359

I've been thinking about that while reading too, more so that he keeps saying it can cure anything as if it'll work immediately and not require readministering over a few days/weeks. Maybe there's another stage to this plan that we're unaware of.

>>772374

There are some things you treat with a single dose of antibiotics. You treat primary syphilis with a single administration of 2.4 million units of benzathine penicillin. You can treat an urinary tract infection with a single 3 gram dose of fosfomycin. But whatever Ruri has, there's no way a single dose of his prehistoric antibiotic should cure it. Senkuu's mentioned before how the stuff he makes is inferior from the stuff from our era (during the ramen chapter), I don't see why his drug should be any different.

If she does get cured I'll accept it as an RPG sort of thing. Complete the quest for the elixir to heal the princess and move to the next part of the game. Won't be too thrilled but I won't dwell on it either.

>>758977

When are they going to get out of this stupid fucking village? Can japs ever tell stories without fucking tournaments?

JFC it's been almost 50 chapters and it's already wasting tons of time.

>>772435

Nowadays treatment of TB lasts at least 6 months and uses 4 antibiotics in usual situations. Even if she has some super weak strain of prehistoric bacteria that dies even if you imply you're going to put antibiotics close to it, tuberculosis takes a long time to treat not because of the bacteria, but because it forms granuloma and it's hard for antibiotics to reach the bacteria inside those things. I hope they do show or at least talk about how they're going to give antibiotics to her for a while, but getting all the ingredients was hard and I believe they only got a small amount of several of them.

>However I could also see her having cystic fibrosis

I thought about this one too earlier on when she was introduced but she'd be fucking dead by now if that's what her problem is.

But again, shonen manga, I bet they won't even say what disease she has.

>>774263

never has a man been so very happy to have a cold soda

>>774410

I don't think they sold is quite as well at the start of the series, but there's got to be an existential despair hanging over some of these characters. Can you even imagine being in their place? You wake up and everything you've ever known is gone. Not just gone, but seemingly lost and unattainable. Even something as simple as having a color drink on a hot day is an impossibility. Having that first drink of soda after half a year or so must be orgasmic on a spiritual level.

>>774410

I don't think it's even cold, but he looks like the happiest camper nonetheless. Actually made me crack a smile.

>those childbearing hips

Lord have mercy upon my battered loins. For I will not.

But more importantly, are sulphonamides bacteriolytic or -static? Although I guess it doesn't matter how the pathogenic strain increased in numbers so suddenly -- it's just too damn short of a time and I should just take my disbelief and suspend it from the nearest tree.

>>774820

It's never really made clear how much time paces during a chapter, I mean in the last 15 chapters or so 6 months went by or so, this chapter could have taken place over a month or two.

>Senku was the rightful chief of the village all along.

NANI?

>>774413

Lot longer than half a year. People are conscious and aware when they were stone. Trapped in that state for a millennia. Like Taiju with Yuzuriha. He managed to fight off full blown insanity and maintain his sense of self by thinking only of his waifu.

This manga suits his style a lot more than Sun-ken Rock (even if it had its moments). Origin is another stuff by him that's pretty interesting.

>>774852

>he's a gook

Didn't know that.

>>774842

I'm too lazy to look it up, but Senku was un-stone'd for quite a while before his buddy woke up, and then the two of them spent months working on the stone cure, and likely several months more. It's unclear how long Gen has been awake, but the point stands.. Thousands of years being barely conscious, and then having to struggle in a world without a sliver of technology.. and then finally, that crazy bastard makes you a soda. Good God, it must be amazing.

>>774897

Senku and Taiju forced themselves awake for the entire duration, but you can't assume it was the same for everyone else. Neither Gen nor Yuzuriha knew that time passed at all after they woke up.

>>777422

Yep, even Trump couldn't hold out for long.

>Ishigami Village is started by the astronauts in ISS at some point after the stone incident

>The symbol of the village isn't a star of david, but a bastardization of JAXA

>Senku's a long lost honoured ancestor

>>780215

So, would it be called incest if an ancestor fucks the new generations of his siblings?

>>780266

A bunch of scientist with no one who can do the practical parts of engineering, ceramics, metallurgy cannot actually establish modern civilization. Not to mention none of them would had experience hunting if they came from peaceful countries like Japan. Application of any advance knowledge they have would be lost in one generation and the advanced knowledge itself lost within 3.

>>780266

>>780278

It would made sense for that advanced knowledge to be lost if no one had any means to actually applied said knowledge, with Senku around who can build shit from scrap they might really progress.

Wasn't this manga drawn by Boichi? This looks nothing like him...

Senku's dad is gonna fuck the shit out of that idol.

Senku's dad's interview was hilarious.

>It was then I either learned swimming or get the electric nipple clamps.

>>783132

>>783142

Chapter where?

>>783143

Not on niggerstream. You nigger.

>>777430

Maybe he did

>>780237

No, they're so far along that I can say he can safely fuck them

>>783163

That village must be inbred as fuck is they are the descendants of only 6 people, maybe they more people later but damn, no wonder they never made it out of the stone age.

>Birds were turning to Stone before everything else

How curious.. The plot thickens!

>>783167

It's quite likely that they interbred with other humans who awoke over time. Although, with 6 people, they could likely plan out a breeding strategy that put a couple generations between each bloodline to reduce/negate the effects of inbreeding.

Is the spoiler fest really necessary ? It's just beginning so it's quite easy to catch up to.

I was really put off by the art initially, especially the colored promotion art, looks orders of magnitude edgier than the actual manga is. It's just a neat idea competently executed, even though I'm not really feeling the main villain. He seems bound to deviate the story from its initial premise.

>>783246

>main villain

More like first villain who'll turn into an ally after his defeat.

I bet the real main villain will be an evil scientist.

>>783248

I would definitely get behind that, but the narrative just does not seem to be propped up this way. He's raising an army, and it's all but guaranteed he'll convert Taiju and Yuzuriha to his cause. Unless Senku does some really crazy shit and defeats him in one blow, he's at the very least going to be the main villain of the first big arc, after which it might as well be a sequel, called a new arc because mangas work that way.

>>783251

>it's all but guaranteed he'll convert Taiju and Yuzuriha to his cause

I really doubt it.

And I'm not saying defeating Tsukasa will be easy. Hell, it could even take multiple arcs, but I've read enough shonen to know how these things work. He'll just be the first big bad, not THE big bad, unless this is one of those stories that's already planned to the end, and planned to be short (sorta like Ass Class was).

So, the two women at the space station became breeding cows.

This turns me on.

>>783490

There are 3.

>>774263

>This series has the weirdest sort of hype. They're just mixing chemicals and collecting resources, but it's got me all excited and tingly. It's oddly triumphant.

It's relate able. We were all hunter gatherers at one point, so it hits you on some prime level at your core. Good stuff.

>>783248

>>783251

You're both wrong, the real main villain is going to be the anti spiral.

>>784910

Why the fuck would you bring up TTGL?

>>780278

That doesn't explain why written language was gone unless passing down stories was just way to pass to down from several generations.

>>785020

No pens, no paper. Spoken traditional and verbal inheritance were used for centuries because it was so hard to pass along written language when there was no easy way to preserve writing.

>>784915

That was a joke. Please take it easy.

So, incest confirmed?

>>788906

Can't really help it when you're starting with six people.

>>788906

On the other hand Byakuya is apparently not Senkuu's biological father, even though their designs are so similar.

Probably the editor interfered later to make them not related so there's no incest when Senkuu and Kohaku get together. The entire village is inbred and relatives though, starting from 6 and they are only around 40 people 3700 years later.

>>788958

Despite the manga's focus on science, it's the kind of premise that simply can't avoid creating suspension of belief situations and this is one of them.

>>788958

>For this to work out, they would have to rely on their selection as astronauts (you basically need to have perfect genetics, health-wise) for the bad effects to not manifest, and this could be the only explanation for that.

Even then, they'd have no way of knowing if they have recessive genes for some fucked up diseases and stuff like that.

Suspension of disbelief is the only way to go.

>>788958

What if they practiced eugenics and killed all the children born with defects and undesirable traits.

Would this suppress some of the negative impact of hundreds of generations of inbreeding?

But I find the idea that after almost 4000 years these people still haven't advanced past the stone age far more unbelievable.

>>788979

>But I find the idea that after almost 4000 years these people still haven't advanced past the stone age far more unbelievable.

Could be explained later than Byakuya, who clearly designed the cultural model with stories passed down generations, wanted to make sure it didn't advance into a second, separate civilization. So that Senkuu wouldn't feel bad about rebuilding the old one and destroying the growing form of the new one or something.

Or perhaps he feared a big civilization would inevitably end up using the statues for raw material before Senkuu woke up and found the cure.

STONE WARS

T

O

N

E

W

A

R

S

I was thinking about the inbred thing too, there has to have been others that survived or awakened or something. Either that or this village is but one of many spread across the country/world.

>>792185

I think this is the point where we'll know if the manga really does have long-term potential. The application of warfare technology should be enough to steer clear of typical WSJ fighting fare, but we'll see.

>>792185

>not stick and stone wars

Wasted opportunity.

>>792275

>that image

For fuck sake do not shit up this thread like you did the OPM threads.

>>792185

>They literally just glossed over the inbreeding part

Well, that's concerning.

>>792295

Exactly, apart from chemistry, this manga has been full-bullshit on "science".

>>792275

Yes, they're starting to laze around devices such as the father-son thing. I doubt this was thought thoroughly and they just threw it because the editor said something on the lines that incest wouldn't be allowed.

They're reaching that stage when their ideas are running out. Like, they came with a concept and a main story, but after that they would create the story on demand (filler arcs all over the place).

I guess they still have some fat to burn, specially with Senku's friends (that couple, which I forgot the name) and with that Delinquent (which I also forgot the name), but after that I bet there's nothing.

>>792299

I liked it but I also thought It was a little too convenient that senku's father was an astronaut just so the author could pull an emotional string. Kind of a useless story just to hammering in "follow muh dreams".

Also how come they really specified that he wasn't biologcial just to avoid incest? Dude does not care for any pussy and it's kinda the apocalypse for senku so I doubt he would be having such a moral conundrum if he ever did get the feeling to stone any of them.

>>792292

Hopefully no one has an opinion so shit like the OPM thread

>>792334

They needed an origin for the village, and it being the life's work of Senku's father is cooler than "some people just got destonified early lol". It was clearly shoehorned and introduced Byakuya specifically for it. Anons just make a big deal of how little sense it makes because that's what happened for stories centered around science - suddenly everything has to be exactly right. An understandable sentiment, but a futile one. Suspension of disbelief still applies.

>>792334

The mystery of the village was set up pretty early. Initially I figured some of the girls or maybe the ruling family were modern people who had awoken and started the village, but over the years their stories got distorted. Or maybe the older sister remembered the modern world but everyone else forgot.

Having them be a tiny tribe of humans who have existed and procreated for nearly 4000 years without increasing to any significant number and actually downgrading to stoneage thinking just makes it more confusing, especially when no one else has woken up from the stone naturally besides Senku and that other retard that disappeared from the story.

>>792338

>Suspension of disbelief

Also known as "cheap writing".

If you're taking yourself seriously but is delivering lazy, then you're just selling lies.

That's why I prefer comedies, they don't take themselves seriously.

>>792350

>Suspension of disbelief is cheap writing

Alright, come back when you're actually familiar with the rules of fiction.

>>792374

What a sad excuse. I wouldn't bother suspending my disbelief if it was a gag manga, but as you said, it's a fucking SCIENCE IS AWESOME! manga.

>>792377

And you didn't drop it after the first chapter? You know, with all those people turning to stone.

>>792377

>Endless stamina dude

>Super smart kid, able to count for nearly 4 millennium without losing it

>Super edgy strong dude that can kill lions bare handed

Why didn't you quit at any of these points?

>>792387

I have nothing better to do, so I naively kept my disbelief in suspension. But it now accumulated too much bullshit for what it proposed and the only thing holding me in the past chapters was the delicious girls.

But I wasn't even complaining that much, you know, I kept seeing the bullshit but kept reading as well.

What made me mad was you telling others to actively disregard plot holes and cheap and lazy writing, of the kind that insults the reader's intelligence.

>Oh, these Anons here don't even know my favourite word, let me shove it into them, let me make them act as they were supposed to

And yeah, people would separate Fiction from Fantasy in the past - things that aren't real but are based in reality from things that aren't real and aren't based in reality.

The next "war" arc will be Senku making a fortress, traps, things like crossbows, gunpowder and guns, by the way.

>>792393

I didn't tell anyone anything, though. You sound supremely shitter shattered, by the way.

>>792395

>I didn't tell anyone anything, though.

You did, more than once.

>You sound supremely shitter shattered, by the way.

Text is bad in conveying emotions. If I have to describe my tone, it would be "tired" or "fed up".

>>792399

Is it you, brazilian shitposter? Out of /a/!

>>792400

The crazy suiryu poster and the crazy motherfucker calling people samefags in the maid drive thread are the same person?

>>792402

I don't even know what a suryu is.

Now, you're clearly that self-assumed and identified shitposter.

Really, leave this board.

>>792399

Didn't the picture tip you off? By the way this is the same guy that spergs out about mongostream and dogtooths in the wan pisu threads too

>>792405

I'm not the guy, I don't even post in the One Piece threads (I don't read it).

Try again.

>>792405

>Niggastream

>Dogtooth

Don't bring that shit up here. Why do this to a solid thread.

>>792398

>You did, more than once.

Oh, now I get it. You are unable to fathom that there could be more than one person calling you a faggot, you faggot.

>>792411

No, that's you, actually. And hey, you say things to the air, you never quoted me.

>>792392

The gimmick, as we were shown, was that all of the characters who got revived from the Stone were min-maxed in different ways. Senku's whole deal is that he's absurdly smart, but he's got very little empathy, shit social skills, he's weak as hell. Taiju has near endless stamina/toughness, but he's dumb as shit. Tsukasa is insanely strong, but he's an amoral psychopath who can't be reasoned with.

While it's not realistic for anyone to have qualities dialed up to such absurd levels, it's not shown to be entirely abnormal or beyond suspension of disbelief for characters to be that way. When it comes to the hard science and implementing it, Senku still had to put in the work and re-invent numerous things to get to the level where certain minor scientific and technological achievements were possible. We were shown that people in this world can be amazing, but that science still works in a realistic way... So for them to just complete gloss over a MAJOR scientific aspect of the setting and world and then just ignore it, the audience's suspension of disbelief is shaken.

Maybe they'll address it later. Maybe they'll explain that some weird, as of yet unexplained phenomenon has been culling their tribe for centuries, or that some members of the village have parentage that traces outside of the original founders. Thousands of years of inbreeding would not fly otherwise. And we're not even talking about something silly like they'd all be retarded mutants. Repeatedly inbreeding eventually creates sterility and skyrockets the likelihood of stillbirth and miscarriage. They'd be extinct within a couple generations of inbreeding. Lasting 100 years that way is unthinkable. Lasting 3000+ years is unthinkable.

>>792439

I've never seen the Japanese take a saying about inbreeding, this considering how much incestuous media they make.

If anything, it seems they have a latent desire to inbreed but can't.

I don't doubt that if Japan got a hold of itself and the NEET generation actually manages to get jobs and become politicians, laws such as "The daughters are property (including sexual) of the father primarily and the brothers secondarily - her duties are to take care of them and procreate. If a sister/daughter marries, the males of the family will be giving their ownership of her to her husband."

The guys are just lusting for it and I know, because they made me lust too.

God damn. These guys don't get a break.

Katanas do not beat spears.

>>798063

That's why some samurai used to tie their glorious nipponsteel to long sticks, thus giving birth to the naginata.

Checkmate, autist.

>>798063

Katanas are really overrated.

>>798075

Depends on what you're up against.

They are excellent at cutting down peasants.

>>798075

>posting Lindybeige's garbage video on it

This whole discussion around katanas is retarded.

Yes, katanas are trash compared to western swords of the same time periods. But they weren't used against the kind of thing western swords were used anyway, so the comparison is completely pointless. They were good for what they did, which was be really pretty and menacing and show that you're a badass samurai. Most of the fighting in Japan was between Japanese people and other Japanese people, all wearing leather or crappy metal for armor and mostly using polearms, bows and later guns.

And this is all a real, military context. If you're talking about fiction where one guy has his one amazing sword that can cut through anything then yes, congratulations, you spotted that a work of fiction contains something that probably isn't realistic.

>>798078

>SOME OF THE FINEST BLADES IN THE WORLD

Clearly those eastern barbarians think that their swords are good or anything.

>>798063

>Katanas do not beat spears.

But almost all of the primitives are using stone cubs, knives and axes.

From the group attacking the village, the only one we have seen using a spear was Hyougo.

But I do agree that Katanas are a bad choice. If I was Senkuu I would have ordered naginatas/halberds and some bows or crossbows.

>>798075

It's true that European swords of that time were better than katanas, but katanas were never intended to be used as war weapons.

Swords as a whole are massively overrated and should only be used as side weapons.

>>798091

>when you make a weapon focused entirely on slashing and it can't cut one of the simplest types of armors even peasants could afford

What about a Guntō?

>>798100

>Swords as a whole are massively overrated and should only be used as side weapons.

Well, now you said some crap. Swords are eternal because they're by far the most versatile weapons there are.

>Muh lance

Lances are good in defensive formations of war - in everyday scenarios, they're crap - and are incredibly prone to be defeated by flanking.

In the 18th and 19th century, the lance completely disappeared from war scenarios in favour of sword welding cavalries and foot soldiers.

>>798100

>Swords as a whole are massively overrated

I disagree. They are incorrectly rated, because

>and should only be used as side weapons.

They are not rated highly enough as side arms. People only ever measure stuff by their destructive/lethal potential on the battlefield. But swords can easily be added to just about anything. It's like black, a sword goes with everything. Try carrying a spear around all day.

And then, when you leave it at home, try defending yourself when Tim is getting uppity again.

Swords are great. They are just not good main weapons.

>>798107

Guess which is the superior weapon to fight on A FUCKING BRIDGE?

Hint: it's not the slashing weapon

>>798112

I think he meant the same thing. People just have the notion that swords are considered to be the thing you fight with when they're really not.

>>798107

>In the 18th and 19th century, the lance completely disappeared from war scenarios in favour of sword welding cavalries and foot soldiers.

You mean when people had fucking guns? Gee, I wonder why that happened.

>>798119

Great swords are slashing pole arms, and they are excellent for holding of large numbers of opponents on a bridge.

>>798119

It's the trusting sword of course. Lances wouldn't have space to maneuver and could get grabbed by the opponents hand.

>>798121

What? Why they started using Swords when they had Guns? Why wouldn't they use Spears? Axes? Halberds? Maces?

Tell me, enlighten me.

>>798122

In fact, the great sword is probably superior to a spear for the job precisely because it is a slashing weapon. When fighting multiple opponents, you are supposed to avoid thrusting attacks, because of the difficulty of retrieving your weapon from the opponents' innards while their allies are attacking you.

>>798125

They did use spears though. That's what bayonets are, essentially.

>>798126

Bayonets were only used when they phased out Swords completely.

Actually, even after the making of Guns, Swords were still king in war and in civilian usage because Guns had several limitations.

The American Civil War was fought primarily with Sabers, with Guns being limited to guerrilla fights and defense formations.

You couldn't charge with a gun, a bayonet, a lance or anything - but you could with a horse and a sword.

>>798127

No, before bayonets, they had mixed units, combining pike formations with gunmen.

At that time the sword had a very different role on the battlefield.

As soon as I read the "finest blades" line, I knew this series had opened the floodgates for weaponry arguments.

>>798123

>thrusting sword

So not the katana? Because I guarantee you these pig iron swords would outright snap when pushed against bone or just bend to shit after getting stuck in flesh

>grabbing a spear barehanded

Fantastic way to lose your fingers

>>798091

Armored samurai combat with katanas (when they lost their orimary polearm) was nothing like the first webm though. The essentially blunt force the other guy down and then half sword into exposed bits like neck and armpits. The katana, despite its awkward angle can be used to thrust relatively well. Also trying to slash at loose chainmail with anything is pretty much a fool's undertaking

>>798125

The introduction of guns capable of shooting at an acceptable rate meant that the old school doctrine of line formations and open field battle became obsolete and warfare shifted entirely to a more mobile outlook. However cavalry didn't get phased out until much later due to line infantry not being able to damage charging cavalry with just guns until the bayonet was introduced (indirectly adding back the option to have spears). However the melee component of near-modern combat became minimized over time to the point where the mace became the blackjack (never used again after ww1), the spear became the bayonet, the sword became the combat knife and the axe became the combat shovel (The fan favourite of trench warfare of ww1 and some parts of ww2). All because modern combat stresses on mobility, staying lightweight and at the same time combat distances have increases far beyond or forefathers could even imagine. So if we use a lineage tree for weapon evolution, only the sword, the axe and the spear survived after all these time (and that three are also what we started with).

>>798122

>with the Iron Age came the Horses, Chariots, Bows and Swords for good

Genghis Khan must have been an idiot, because the primary weapons of the Mongols were bows and lances/spears/halberds.

Swords like usual are only used as side arms.

>>>798167

>So if we use a lineage tree for weapon evolution, only the sword, the axe and the spear survived after all these time (and that three are also what we started with).

One could argue that the gun is just an evolution of the bow/crossbow.

>>798152

>In the 18th and 19th century all melee weapons became useless because guns and canons were introduced. Swords were still used because of they make a versatile and lightweight sidearm.

Guns weren't even used that much at the time. They were slow and unreliable.

>Nigger are you retarded. The main purpose of a lance is to charge your enemy with it. That's pretty much the only thing you can do with a lance.

No, that's you. Lance-horse charging was an one time event, as the lance got stuck in the target, after that, all subsequent attacks were with swords.

>That's the dumbest fucking argument I've ever seen anyone use on the internet.

Nice "argument", Lances were impractical in most situations, not in a few.

>How useful is any weapon against being outflanked by an enemy?

Swordsman can't be flanked.

>How good are bows in the rain?

Still good.

>Except that spears (and javelins) stayed the main weapon of choice well into the middle ages

They didn't.

>and were replaced by lances and other larger polearms in the later middle ages

Only in heavy-armour combat in castle sieges, do you know anything about the matter?

>because a sword can't do shit against armor but a halberd can.

Yep, you're an idiot. Thrusting swords can penetrate armour, they're made of the same material.

>>798155

Yes, not the Katana.

>Pig iron

European swords were lighter and less prone to break than Katanas. And they weren't made of pig iron.

>Grabbing a spear in the blade, not the handle

You're a genius.

>>798168

>Genghis Khan must have been an idiot, because the primary weapons of the Mongols were bows and lances/spears/halberds.

The Mongol warfare technology was a mere mimicry of the ancient Central Asian tribes. Also, Genghis Khan is overrated, most of his empire was a huge desert inhabited by almost no one. But kudos to him, he managed a feat nonetheless.

>Swords like usual are only used as side arms.

Swords were that thing that you must always carry with yourself.

>>798168

>One could argue that the gun is just an evolution of the bow/crossbow.

One could but that'd be a retarded argument.

There's a gigantic difference between bows and crossbows in terms of what they're used for so they're not even remotely comparable in the first place. The same applies to guns. The only similarity is that they all propel projectiles at people, and you might as well consider a wooden club and a dagger to be "evolutions" of eachother in that case.

>>798169

>And they weren't made of pig iron.

But katanas are, SPECIALLY THE ONES IN THIS SERIES, and guess what's the fucking sword being discussed here as being shit against spears?

>Grabbing a spear in the blade, not the handle

>grab handle >spearman pulls back, half your hand is gone

This autistic "maneuver" only works if you are wearing steel gauntlets, you idiot.

>>798175

>wooden club and a dagger to be "evolutions" of eachother in that case.

Anon, one is a blunt weapon and the other is a cutting one, they're a different.

Don't forget about the Blunt/Pierce/Slash triangle.

>>798177

Yes, and my fucking point was that they're different.

>Don't forget about the Blunt/Pierce/Slash triangle.

That's videogame logic. The real world is described by physics, not arbitrary concepts about what shape your pointy stick is.

>>798176

>But katanas are, SPECIALLY THE ONES IN THIS SERIES, and guess what's the fucking sword being discussed here as being shit against spears?

We're talking about swords in general now, not Katanas. A Thrusting sword is specifically not a Katana, and the Katana was never suggested to be used in the bridge scenario.

This is you willingly dodging the question by misinterpreting it.

>grab handle >spearman pulls back, half your hand is gone

You're retarded, you could do the same and pull the lance from the wearer's hand too, right?

No, mostly, both you and him wouldn't be able to do shit and thus neutralising the lance.

>>798180

>That's videogame logic.

It isn't. That's physics.

>The real world is described by physics

Yes.

>not arbitrary concepts

They're not arbitrary.

>about what shape your pointy stick is.

This is called Impact Surface, something taken into account is Tank armours, bullets, industrial presses, etc.

>>798181

The entire argument at hand is "katanas do not beat spears". Thrusting swords have no place in this because there is none in the series, only shitty katanas.

Will people die in this fight, or will the villains make a miraculous escape?

>>798186

There are no nodachis in this series.

>>798188

And there are no video games either.

>798169

>Guns weren't even used that much at the time. They were slow and unreliable.

That's not true at all. Rifling became a norm at 1540. A good 60 or so years before Japan would even learn about gunpowder weapons. The firearm in old combat doctrine is a force multiplier. Just like how the same number of men out in the open with halberds would beat the same number of men in the open with swords. The problem older firearm had was that they were massively sensitive to weather and were logistically difficult to support in a skirmish. That made it a purely battlefield weapon like the cannon until both these problems were solved and people started carrying it around even on scouting missions.

>No, that's you. Lance-horse charging was an one time event, as the lance got stuck in the target, after that, all subsequent attacks were with swords.

If we're talking about ancient warfare, horse lancing attacks were done to break infantry lines with dense packs of horsemen. The vanguard would charge against the braced infantry with a lance because it was what worked but the lines behind him would typically have slashing polearms like glaives from ancient china, broad bladed, multiprong spears from japan and the spears of europe. Later armor development and doctrine change meant cavalry charges became less commonplace and more situational and eventually around the 14th century, it was more common for cavalry to dismount and fight rather than charge in. Hence the development of specialist polearms like the pollaxe. Subsequent attacks were definitely not done with swords unless they lost their primary as unhorsing was still a thing and most armies by the 10th century had access to bills or glaives that are designed to unhorse someone by hooking onto their armor.

Nice "argument", Lances were impractical in most situations, not in a few.

If it's a tounament lance, sure. But a war lance is a completely different beast. It's not even that much longer than a war spear since before the development of the stirrup, people needed to wield it with both hands. After armor development got better, cavalry spears got shorter, not longer.

>Swordsman can't be flanked.

This has to be the most stupid argument of all time.

>Bows are still good in the rain

Not good enough to stifle a line charge in the rain. Wet fletchings are a massive problem for anything but shooting down from walls.

>Spears didn't stay.

They did. Spears only got phased out when guns became the primary and then got phased back in again in the form of bayonets when they realized phasing out spears entirely made infantry too vulnerable to cav action.

>Only in heavy-armour combat in castle sieges, do you know anything about the matter?

Pollaxes and halberds were the mainstay of the open battlefield until guns made the pike formations popular again actually.

>Yep, you're an idiot. Thrusting swords can penetrate armour, they're made of the same material.

But you'll be hard pressed to present enough force to actually force the material to fail. Deform? Sure. Failure to the point of puncturing? Pretty hard to do. Remember that armor development benchmarks was first measured with armors being SWORD PROOF. Then shot proof as the 16th century rolled around. Thrusting swords were used to penetrate weak joints of worn armor aka the part that didn't have metal protecting it.

>>798171

>The Mongol warfare technology was a mere mimicry of the ancient Central Asian tribes.

You mean the same technology that took all the advanced by the Song Dynasty in siegecraft and metallurgy advances from Joson?

>Also, Genghis Khan is overrated, most of his empire was a huge desert inhabited by almost no one.

If that statement were true, he wouldn't have the logistics needed to reach Europe. Him reaching europe and actually being a threat to europe seem to suggest otherwise.

>Swords were that thing that you must always carry with yourself.

Convenience doesn't always mean the best tool for the job. For example the everyday carry pistol versus the venerable shotgun for example.

>This autistic "maneuver" only works if you are wearing steel gauntlets, you idiot.

The first thing they teach you in spear techniques in european (though that's more theory crafting), chink, gook and nip schools is what to do when some autist tries to reach for your spear and it doesn't include cutting their fingers. Spear shafts are still perfectly capable of delivering enough blunt force to deter someone from pretending this is a martial arts manga. The rest of asia gets a pass because they prefer short spears due to the lack of organized cavalry ever evolving there.

>>798190

Whoops I misread the date. Nips definitely knew guns existed by 1540. My bad.

>>798196

Do you even know when your paintings are depicting? That's long after guns made armor obsolete. Are you being disingenuous on purpose?

>>798199

>Are you being disingenuous on purpose?

He cites crashing a fully-laden plane into a building at high speed as proof that a man can easily penetrate armor with a swordthrust. Take a guess.

>>798137

>Also, tell me how useful is this against horse flanking

Late medieval pike formations are not the same as bronze age spear formations. The assertion that they are the same is stupid.

Flanking a pike formation would first require you to sacrifice a unit of your own troops to give the pikemen something to skewer while you send the rest of your soldiers to attack them from the side.

>The age of the Lances [and] Spears [] ended with the Bronze Age

No.

>with the Iron Age came the [] Chariots,

Are you joking?

>>798199

They were using armour. The fact that you don't know that is proof enough that you don't know shit about history.

>>798202

You're retarded. There must be a comparison of materials - if the planes were made of wood, they would shatter and leave the building unscratched (maybe the glassed would disappear).

You cannot penetrate a material that is harder than the projectile, instead, the projectile would disintegrate.

Fucking uneducated moron.

>>798203

There's the same problem - Lance formations navigate like cars, they can't turn on their own, the whole body must move in unison and this is horrible, this was defeated so many times it got abandoned forever.

>No.

Yes.

>Are you joking?

Chariots were much older than in the Bronze Age - but not their widespread use.

Man, the most important thing is that the villagers showing up with katanas was cool and impactful. I'm happy you military history enthusiasts got another excuse to discuss which weapon would fare better in a real scenario, but at the end of the day, swords and sword variations will usually be the coolest.

>>798196

>In Europe, Swords were always Thrusting oriented

No. The gladius was supposed to be used for thrusting, but it was a good slasher too.

During the "dark" ages, swords were very slash-focused with fat and heavy blades. Then they slowly turned more and more thrust-centric until the 20th century.

>>798211

Thrusting swords are double edged and straight.

Slashing swords are often single edged and curved.

Again, the only Slashing sword native to Europe was the Grosse Messer and the later imported Sabers (sabers got straighter with time as well, maybe a sign that Europeans really did prefer thrusting).

You had some slashing seafaring swords as well, all imports.

The real question that should be asked here is how the fuck are they using katanas reliably when all weapons they ever knew before were rock spears and clubs?

>>798206

>There's the same problem

Not really. The former are much better armored than the latter, and their weaponry is also much more deadly.

>Yes.

A simple google search will tell you that pikes were popular after the bronze age.

A google search will also tell you that chariots were not very popular with the Roman or later armies.

>>798204

>You're retarded. There must be a comparison of materials - if the planes were made of wood, they would shatter and leave the building unscratched (maybe the glassed would disappear). You cannot penetrate a material that is harder than the projectile, instead, the projectile would disintegrate. Fucking uneducated moron.

I see you need this to be more carefully laid out for you, since you have trouble understanding.

He said that it is difficult "to present enough force to actually force the material to fail". You presented an extreme case where ludicrously large forces caused a material to fail, and claim that that disproves his statement that you need very large forces to cause the material to fail.

Can you figure out where you went wrong?

>>798212

>Thrusting swords are double edged and straight.

That's not all there is to thrusting you moron. When the point of balance is 9 inches away from the guard, it's a shit thruster.

>Slashing swords are often single edged and curved.

More importantly, the point of balance is far out and the blade has enough mass to provide a good slash.

>Again, the only Slashing sword native to Europe was the Grosse Messer

Just TRY to claim that a falchion is not a cutting sword.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78exRZ88cFA

And dark age swords, while not that extreme, were multipurpose, but mainly slashing swords.

>>798215

>Guns

You retarded keep saying what I'm saying, you're not contradicting my point: they were used for defensive tactics.

Not offensive ones.

Guns were only heavily used for offensive tactics by the times of the First World War, when the Saber Cavalries went extinct for good and forever (except in Eastern Europe).

Also, the first Assault Rifles were made by the end of WWII - normal, good, Rifles were only a thing by the end of the 19th century and, again, were mainly defensive before.

>Machine Gun

Defensive.

>Pistol, Revolver

Not for war, little reach.

>Everyone can be flanked

Yes, but swordsmen can just turn formation, you don't have that with spears.

>Wet bowstring.

I happen to have one myself. This was only true before they coated the strings, millennia ago.

>85% spears

Double Axes, Spears and Shields were honorary symbols.

>English law

Of course, from whence Freelance came, the Free Lance. This was a generic term - just like in Germany it didn't have anything to do with Lances, they were "Sell Swords".

>More than you

Not at all, tryhard.

>They can't

Thrusting swords can penetrate armour

Also, I'm a Civil Engineer and I can see if you know shit or not (actually, I know by a fact that you didn't t study about materials when you didn't get the plane reference, the most used one in the world):

Say to me why a Diamond armor would be shit.

This will also answer to you why Armour could be penetrated.

>No, just no.

You're so triggered it's funny.

Of course a Straight, Double Edged and Trusting Sword can also Slash. The same can be said about Slashing Swords thrusting.

Go be autistic elsewhere.

>>798219

>Not really. The former are much better armored than the latter, and their weaponry is also much more deadly.

It's too much specific to be used, hence phased out. Spears and Lances had their niche, but outside of it they were useless.

Swords weren't like that.

That's the whole point people here aren't getting.

>A simple google search will tell you that pikes were popular after the bronze age.

They weren't.

>A google search will also tell you that chariots were not very popular with the Roman or later armies.

In Europe.

>>798220

Think about this:

If you shoot a rubber bullet at lightning speed at a steel wall, which one will break?

It's a question about materials.

In the case of the Armour and the Sword, the armour would even be at disadvantage.

>>798222

>POB

Are we gonna talk about this now? Thrusting Swords must have its POB close to the handle for better maneuver and Slash Swords close to their tips for torque power.

This is well known, but not always done like that due to reasons of weight, reliability, etc.

The Falchion is just a big knife.

>>798225

>That's the whole point people here aren't getting.

I think your problem is that you are very bad at language.

>phased out

Means, not used any more. I assume that's not what you mean because in the next sentence you say:

>had their niche

Which means, that they were not phased out.

>>798228

>Slash Swords close to their tips

No. Still closer to the guard than to the tip. These are swords, not axes.

>Are we gonna talk about this now?

I would really prefer if you didn't try to evade having to admit that you were simply wrong.

>>798227

Think about this:

if you push a piece of metal against another piece of metal with very little force, what's going to happen?

>>798231

>No. Still closer to the guard than to the tip. These are swords, not axes.

Do you want to strike like a lady or like a man? Close to the tip generates the maximum torque and power, hence the axes.

And of course, this wasn't done because it got shitty handling and wrist breaking.

>I would really prefer if you didn't try to evade having to admit that you were simply wrong.

I know about sword construction, that's why I asked you.

But I'm not wrong about anything here, you're the tryhard saying shit about Swords.

>>798234

>But I'm not wrong about anything here,

You claimed the Messer was the only European cutting sword. Then you were presented with proof the contrary and pretended it never happened.

Here, have another one.

>I know about sword construction

Given the bullshit you are spouting, I doubt it.

>>798233

First, the Swords were Thrusting oriented, which means that the Pressure their tips made on the Plate was huge.

Second, Swords were bulkier than the Plates, which were very Thin or they would be unusable otherwise.

Third, no such thing as small speed - at the height of the Heavy Armour usage, Two-Handed swords were in vogue and you could do some severe Thrusting with them.

Don't you guys have swords yourselves? You talk like a bunch of Youtube-watchers.

>>798235

>You claimed the Messer was the only European cutting sword.

It is. The Falchion was based on the Chinese Dadao.

Learn your history. Most of European Slash swords were imported designs.

>Given the bullshit you are spouting, I doubt it.

You're the bullshitter here, Youtube faggot.

Here, an Youtube video for you, from a real smith.

>>798236

>First, the Swords were Thrusting oriented,

Some were, yes, especially in the later medieval periods the cutting power had been reduced to very little.

>which means that the Pressure their tips made on the Plate was huge.

No, the power of the thrust does not depend on how thrust oriented the sword is but on the weight of the blade and the speed at which your arm is moving. If the point is properly aligned, the shape of the blade is largely irrelevant.

>which were very Thin

And double layered and supported by cloth armor and possibly also mail armor.

>Third, no such thing as small speed

It's the speed of your arm. Thrusting cannot rely on a swing because if it did, it wouldn't be a thrust.

>Don't you guys have swords yourselves?

I do, actually.

>>798240

>The Falchion was based on the Chinese Dadao.

More moving of goalposts.

I'll assume you are trolling. This is my last reply.

>>798243

Good, you ran out of bullshit to talk about.

>>798242

Do you know the Physical formula for Pressure?

There's an old video that don't even deny that they could be pierced, just that it was impractical (you would have to be alone against your enemy, and you would have to disarm him, otherwise the movement to do that would expose you too much).

>Senkuu introduces katanas

>Wins the war by inducing a medieval weaponry argument within the ranks of the enemy army

Fucking genius

>>798269

>Tsukasa, they got metal swords!

>That's perfect, we'll make spears and defeat them easily.

>UM, ACTUALLY!

No shit a town armed with spears has a better chance of winning vs a small group of katana wielding edge lords.

>>798278

>the kingdom of science actually made guns, now their spears and swords are obsolete

>ackchyually

>>798282

Actually if we use historical examples, water killed more people in sieges than disease did.

>>798278

>Tsukasa starts awakening historians to try and get a decisive answer

>This only makes things worse

Wait, thanks to all this "which weapon is more effective" bullshit you guys are ignoring something that is actually relevant to the story that makes no sense.

Tsukasa wanted to create a world without adults to avoid all the shitty stuff they brought with them, people with "rotten hearts who profit from the weak" (his own words from chapter 4). That's why he wanted to revive just the young, to start things fresh and teach (or control) people to behave themselves. Despite that, Tsukasa is waking up a bunch anime style delinquents that actually look like dudes in their 20s who did some time in jail. Either he completely gave up on his original plan or the writer forgot about it.

>>798293

Or maybe he was full of shit from the start and all he wanted was to be a dictator in a brand new world.

>>798293

that's because his talking points literally belong in a delinquent drama. Like pick up delinquent related works like great teacher onizuka and see what the usual rhetoric of young people in those are.

>>798295

I suppose you're right. Everything he said was really close to standard delinquent fare, but applied to the stone world. Maybe we'll see him talk more about it in later chapters too.

>>798294

Maybe. Maybe he'll admit to that after they defeat him.

>>798301

>>798295

Maybe he's going to kill them off once he attains his perfect world.

>>758977

>I demand that everyone on /a/ support this manga and engage in weekly discussions of how great it is.

No.

>New chapter

>JAPANESE BLADES THE STRONGEST IN THE WORLD

>MUH I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE MANGA

>>800518

Well, they are the strongest blades in the world. By merit of the absence of competition.

Checkmate, atheists.

>>800521

>By merit of the absence of competition.

But there isn't such absence. There are modern European swordsmiths that make fully fledged swords, not cheap display replicas. Nordcrown, Szabla Polska and Albion Swords are top tier.

By the way, wasn't this chapter very weirdly paced? Like, rushed and disconnected?

>>800528

Talking about the manga, numbnuts.

>>800528

There's no other blades in the stone world (as far as we know). They're literally the strongest in the world.

Will they find a way to recruit the spearman? Or are we going to witness a slaughter?

>>801732

I really would have preferred if they went through some copper age weaponry first, instead of the omnipresent katana folded over a hundred times

>>801732

Tsukasa will most likely become an ally at some point, so I don't think Hyouga will be recruited now, he'll come in a package with Tsukasa.

The reason why katanas are a spectacularly strong weapon in this scenario is solely due to the fact that THERE IS NO ADVANCED SMITING METHODS AVAILABLE IN THE WORLD AT ALL.

The ENTIRE point of the metal folding is to remove impurities that are inevitable when working with this awful pig iron, and it's this reason alone what makes the katana the strongest blade available since THERE IS NO PROPER STEEL ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD ANYMORE. IT'S NOT THE KATANA IT'S THE UPGRADED PIG IRON WHEN COMPARED TO PLAIN PIGGU AND FUCKING STONES.

FUCKING RETARDS

>>801908

What a quality sperg. Not.

>>801909

Feel free to disprove it faggot.

>>801757

We didn't get stuck with copper for a while because no one knew how to work iron. Small iron crafts existed around when bronze and copper was still the arms material of choice. We just didn't have the tech and knowhows to forge large amounts of iron at once while bronze could be casted, hammer forged and cold tempered

>>801911

Why should I give you attention? "Disprove"? Do you think I would engage in pitiful retardation like your sperg?

>>801908

You are partly correct. While the "folded 1000 times" thing was mostly to get impurities out of shit-tier steel, the katana's durability and effectiveness was due to the construction of the sword featuring layers of more flexible steel surrounding a hard center. If metal is too hard, it becomes brittle and breaks upon impact with another hard thing. If it's too soft, it flexes too much and flops around when you swing it fast and won't hold an edge. Real katanas are a combination of different types layered on each other, giving it rigid strength AND the flexibility to not break in half when striking another weapon. Depending on the smith, there were all kinds of different ways to arrange the different types of steel within the sword. Some were stupid simple and some were mind-blowingly complex.

>>801928

>Why should I give you attention?

You call replying to people 'not giving attention'?

>>801928

>replies twice, no argument either time

>W-WHY SHOULD I GIVE YOU ATTENTION?

You must be the retard that sperged out for 40 posts pretending to know anything about medieval history.

>>801981

>>801967

Holy crap, you are needy.

>>804890

It's gonna end with Metal Gears deep-striking from orbit, calling it right now.

>>804890

I hope they just go with walkie talkies, actual cellphone seem like too much.

>>804898

When you have Japanese katana, smartphones are easy.

>>804906

>build huge computer

>apply nippon steel

>???

>sumafo acquired

>>804917

>>804906

>fold computer 1000 times until it turns into a smartphone

Genius.

>another chapter

>another priapism

On behalf of my dick I demand that the absolute madman known as Boichi be stopped, his mango license revoked and that he stands trial before the Court of Cocks.

I do dig the idea Senku's going to use the most benign applications of science and the mentalist's skills to slowly bring people to his side. The ape's speeches seem cool at surface level, but they're no match for the realities of actual comfort.

People who grew up in the modern world will always direly miss something about it, no matter what amount of old men running the world is pushed down their throats.

>>811501

Heh, I saved that pic with the exact same cropping.

Anyway, the manga really went back on track those two last chapters. Chrome is really coming into his own as a better actual inventor than Senku the human encyclopedia.

>>811519

>>811509

The last page in chapter 52 got me really excited. And page 9 in chapter 53, with the gear powered forge. I love this shit.

Incredible how many pitfalls of shit this manga evaded, it has been great since the first page except for the SUPERIOR JAPANESE KATANAS BEST BLADES IN THE WORLD

>>811611

There are no other blades, numbnuts. If we'd dump your ass in the Sahara you'd be the smartest nigger on the continent. Probably. Maybe.

What the fuck would the MC have done if he didn't find the worlds most autistic old man?

>>811623

Wait a couple years and do it himself.

>>774852

Yea he gets to flex his engineering degree in this one.

>>811611

Probably one of the few time katanas make sense, since the technique of folding it over itself was done because they had shit tier metal, which Senku probably has too.

New chapters out, not much happened though.

>>811611

The tubes aren't open on the inside of the bulb.

Magma confirmed for decent guy. Maybe.

Gen confirmed for backstabbing cunt. Probably.

Dunno what to make of this.