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File: cf7e4999025e637⋯.png (3.45 MB, 1392x1943, 48:67, Part_4_Final_Poster.png)

 No.748108

So I finally finished watching Diamond is Unbreakable, and I was pretty disappointed overall. I'm not saying it was shit or anything like that, but if the name of the show and characters had different designs, I wouldn't have been able to identify this as anything other than an anime knockoff of Jojo rather than it actually being a Jojo series. My main complaints for the series that it took much too long for anything plot related to happen. The plot was setup more for an excuse to have a whole bunch of Stand battles, but while that worked in Stardust Crusader because they were always moving toward a clearly defined goal, the end goal of Diamond was to find Kira. But at no point did they ever really seem to actually look for him, other than Jotaro and Rohan. They say they're "looking" for him but they never show them doing so unless it's an episode where they actually get closer to Kira, and those are pretty far and in between. Heck, in the end, they only figure out who Kira is through the efforts of another character that only got introduced near the very end of the story, and had literally no relation to any of the main characters.

The other big problem is the fact that Josuke isn't even the main character. He's a cool guy, and has a solid character, but most of the series focuses on either Koichi or Jotaro. In fact, in the first half, Koichi seems to get multiple fights where he is 1v1 against other stand users, but when Josuke gets into fights, he usually has some sort of back up, and his fights never really come off as being particularly clever. There are a few exceptions, but I can mainly think of only 4 moments that had me going "Oh SHIT!" when he revealed a plan, when previous Jojos had that happening 3-5 times in every fucking fight. Instead Josuke usually seems to be relegated to being the calvary. Someone else will pull of something incredibly dangerous and sacrifice life/limb, and their sacrifice gets him to realize there's a Stand fight happening, and then he shows up to Doradora the fuck out of them. And in the end, his final fight with Kira is basically that same principle, except done badly. Josuke only wins because everyone found the fight happening, but he wasn't even trying to get them to realize that was happening. So he survives off a healthy dose of pure luck, and then Jotaro gets to be the one to actually save everyone anyways with his Time Stop.

On top of all of that, there was this weird attempt at a theme about the town coming together, but that doesn't pan out because they never really stuck with it. In the OPs and multiple scenes they try and portray it as all the Stand users are working together to stop Kira, except none of them take part in anything that fucking matters, other than the scenes where the meet with Reimi. And even then, most of them are fucking psychopaths who were never shown to have any good qualities. So why did the story pretend they were actually supposed to be considered as some of the heroes?

Lastly, the final fight was pretty underwhelming. It had some good moments, but it wasn't any better than most of the other stand fights that happened throughout the series. And that happened right after the "Bites the Dust" episodes which were actually REALLY FUCKING GOOD. And they pretty hamfistedly kept multiple main characters out of the final fight despite them being right next to a bunch of explosions and screaming going off, even though Killer Queen had been portrayed as giving them quite a bit of trouble even before Kira got an extra two Stand Abilities for the final fight. It seemed weird to throw those characters all away and just ignore them for the final big fight.

Anyways, I just wanted to post my thoughts on it since it seems to be pretty well regarded over here, and I was curious to see what other people specifically liked about it. Once again, I'm not calling it SHIT or anything, but this really seemed like basic standard anime to me, which is a shame after seeing shit like Battle Tendencies and Stardust Crusaders.

 No.748204

> So I finally finished watching

That was your first mistake.

You're right though, the story is nowhere near tightly focussed enough. I thought Stardust Crusaders was a drag for having too many irrelevant encounters with random stand users. Even when they're finally at Dio's mansion, they take a detour to his basement to play video games. Instead of learning from that, you get characters that and go nowhere. Tonio Trussaradi was interesting, but irrelevant. The invisible baby was a complete dead end. Mikitaka was a weird distraction. That guy who lives in the power transmission tower called the fight off after realising his whole arc was pointless. For so many characters being brought in, you'd think there'd be some major payoff at the end with them all, but no. On a moment to moment basis, Diamond is Unbreakable is pretty good, but it does not come together as a whole very well.

Golden Wind is much better structured in this regard. It keeps its cast tight and the story on target, with enough progression happening that it doesn't feel slowed down by irrelevant battles.


 No.748221

The anime version of part 1 & 2 are much better than part 3 & 4.


 No.748237

I think Araki was just going for something different. I found the episodic almost slice of life nature of it pretty enjoyable as its own thing. It's a pretty shaky attempt at what it tries to be, granted. If it was just a series of loosely connected episodic stories that take place in a town of stand users, that would've been a solid premise. The overarching plot about trying to stop a serial killer could've also been worked into that if it was introduced from the start and slowly built up into a climax over the course of the story, instead of being introduced about halfway through and then only being half of what was going on at any given time. Having two minor arcs being developed almost at random between lots of unrelated episodic encounters didn't work at all.

I agree the characters and the focus on them needed to be more consistent. If Araki figured out what the relationships between them should be and who servers what purpose in the story it would've worked better. I would be okay with not having a real protagonist, instead having a group of people serving a main characters, but that doesn't work when they don't really interact much and are generally going off on their own adventures away from everyone else. It feels like they're jockeying for the protagonist role.

Part 4 feels like an attempt at a story more ambitious than Araki could pull off. The individual elements of it are good but the bigger picture has a few holes in it, and that's always been the case with Jojo, I think, but when you're constantly funneling the story towards a clear goal those little cracks are harder to notice.


 No.748242

File: 2a1826b16e60e3d⋯.png (564.23 KB, 728x1166, 364:583, such lust.png)

The big problem is that the intent and goal for the story changed numerous times along the way.

>First act is basically just securing the bow and arrow, with the overhanging threat of a serial killer being established

>Second act is searching for the mysterious killer

>Third act is suddenly the antagonist is treated as a protagonist while the supposed protagonists just faff about

>Conclusion is oops, maybe we should bring the killer to justice, almost forgot about that

Disjointed plots are nothing unique to JoJo sadly, but the reason most people forgive Part IV for that is that the whole thing just werks as a saturday morning cartoon kind of thing. It's pretty shaky as one coherent narrative, but it doesn't really rely on it, it's just "Yeah so I just thought of some neat encounter, let's throw that in there, it'll be fun". It's relaxed.

Meanwhile parts 5, 6 and 8 (and even part 7 to a lesser extent, the focus is tighter but the part kind of reinvents itself halfway) all suffer from things getting changed along the way while still trying to coherently go to a single goal, which just highlights the meandering aspect.


 No.748247

>>748242

With part V the goal is always "find Bossu, kill Bossu", but Giorno just does whatever the hell Araki wants, whereas the rest of the cast stay focused on one thing or another. In the PS2 game they even eliminated the unnecessary beginning chapter where Jotaro investigates his whereabouts using Koichi and then HUH OH HE SAVED THE KID BETTER NOT THINK OF HIM ANYMORE FALL BACK EVERYONE NOTHING TO SEE HERE

In 6 the goal is also set in stone, it's just that now the villain gets the Giorno treatment so Araki can reset the universe and be done with it

8 is the odd one out because I just can't place what the hell is Araki doing with his medium. It looks as if he just got bored halfway through or his editors told him he can't do some things or forced him to make at least a chapter per month and now he's just winging it. Josuke wins fights because he has to, not because he could.


 No.748253

File: d6e60bec416510c⋯.jpg (137.35 KB, 308x495, 28:45, annasui girl.jpg)

>>748247

>With part V the goal is always "find Bossu, kill Bossu"

Overall yes, but while Gold Experience's abilities are the elephant in the room in regards to disjointed shit, Vento Aureo has plenty of reinventions.

>Sets itself up as being cool mafia shenanigans in Naples, Giorno is established as a mix between DIO's arrogance and Joestar virtue

>Nah fuck that, let's go on a trip throughout Italy and make Giorno lose all outstanding character traits while Bruno becomes the one that drives the plot along while GioGio is just not-Josuke with weetabix personality right up until Green Day

Bruno is really the only part of VA I consider completely on point by the way, his power is really cool and he has charisma

>Needs to drop a main companion halfway, kills off Leone without Moody Blues ever getting to interact with King Crimson, missed opportunity right there

>After Diavolo is unveiled it tries to go for the Kira angle again, except instead of a pseudo-redemption arc he just has an innocent identity

>Even as an Italy tourism tour it screws the pooch by teasing Firenze and just saying "nah fuck it, I'm more in a Venezia mood". Venezia is cool but you don't fucking bait and switch Firenze, goddamn.

It just can't fucking settle on one trick.

Stone Ocean's problem is more straightforward. Sets itself up as a prison break story, doesn't really act on it all that much and completely abandons it halfway. Of course Pucci being obscenely overpowered is the greater issue. Annasui not being a girl being the greatest.

Completely with you on JoJolion.


 No.748267

File: 8c3e9cdfb6e1fe6⋯.png (3.43 MB, 1560x1200, 13:10, tipica scena di vita a Nap….png)

>>748253

>Nah fuck that, let's go on a trip throughout Italy and make Giorno lose all outstanding character traits while Bruno becomes the one that drives the plot along while GioGio is just not-Josuke with weetabix personality right up until Green Day

Overall, the worst aspect of the part. They could have made it so Giorno was a remorseless killer with a code of honor, but no, obviously he only gets like two scenes in his own part where he does that. The fights are fine though.

>Venezia is cool but you don't fucking bait and switch Firenze

To be honest as a bona fide pastafag, it captured the spirit of the country on almost all parts, except for the "Naples High School" since no way in hell would a public school be that neat and colleges are extremely rare.

>Annasui got sex changed and now wants Jolyne's masculine vagoo, instead of being a lesbo as it's a goddamn female only prison

Really tickles my angry bone


 No.748582

>The other big problem is the fact that Josuke isn't even the main character. He's a cool guy, and has a solid character, but most of the series focuses on either Koichi or Jotaro.

Well, the former is because Koichi was supposed to be the viewpoint character, the "everyman" that the reader/viewer feels the most akin to; he's the normal guy around all this crazy, noisy, bizarre supernatural shit. Because of this, I feel it was a big mistake to give him a Stand. It caused him to be distanced from that position of being "normal", and the only way Araki could attempt to reign that in was by making him SUCK and generally be a whiny panicking loser. It got better toward the end with the introduction of Hayato to that position, but there was still that awkward middle portion of the arc.

As for Josuke, it's because his ability is more defensive than offensive. He's the team's designated White Mage, so of course he's often in the back of the action. It's just not a very good ability for a main protagonist to have.


 No.748596

>>748237

>I found the episodic almost slice of life nature of it pretty enjoyable as its own thing.

That was basically my problme throughout. He clearly wanted to do a sort of SoL monster of the week show, but he had no idea how to tie it into the larger narrative at the same time. So instead we got....A lot of nothing with random moments that were SUPER SERIOUS

>>748582

>As for Josuke, it's because his ability is more defensive than offensive.

I highly disagree. It seemed to me that Crazy Diamond was supposed to be exactly the same as Star Platinum, except they had a different "specialty." Star Platinum could stop time, Crazy Diamond could fix anything. I never got the feeling that Diamond was supposed to be weak by ANY stretch of the imagination. I agree with Koichi though. It might have actually been good if his stand was specifically able to heal shit and make him just patch up everyone after a fight.


 No.748749

>>748108

>The other big problem is the fact that Josuke isn't even the main character.

Polnareff feels like the main character of Part 3 more than Jotaro does. But I don't care because Polnareff is a better character anyway.


 No.748752

>>748596

Nah, his stand should have been echoes act 1 and only act 1.


 No.748754

File: 164d21ae456de45⋯.jpg (449.04 KB, 600x650, 12:13, dfa1585e84f17ad25ac7cbaba5….jpg)

>>748253

Bruno was the true Protag of Part V anyways. Cooler stand. Good power curve. Better motivation. GioGio is pretty much just a mirror of him, right down to the motivations.. except Gio has the Joestar/Dio connection that doesn't really go anywhere.


 No.748763

>>748752

Act 1 and 2 were very interesting and creative. Act 3 was just... it only had literally one ability, and was useless for anything else. Extremely contrived shit had to happen in order for it to be useful. Felt more like the kind of one-off Stand a villain would have had, rather than the vague and versatile Stands of the other protagonists.


 No.748765

What I want to know is in part 6 what exactly happened to the "female" prisoner who was on hormone treatments or whatever they said it was.

I want a chapter about that person's shenanigans.


 No.748771

>>748253

>>748267

>Annasui not being a girl being the greatest.

This. I wish the part could have just gone full /u/ as Araki intended.


 No.748951

File: 45039155f09ccc0⋯.jpg (353.8 KB, 600x1573, 600:1573, pid_21895224.jpg)

>>748763

>versatile Stands of the other protagonists

As established Gold Experience was only versatile because it couldn't fucking settle on one ability. Basically every new thing it could do was pulled straight out of Araki's ass.

Same with Tusk only the new abilities were more properly framed as evolutions. Infinite rotation is pure GER-tier bullshit though.

Crazy Diamond, true enough. Really simple ability on paper, but inventive uses for it. Kind of still relies on ORAORA though.

The only Protagonist Stands that are truly versatile are Stone Free and Soft&Wet, but Stone Free has the bonus of being a simple, concrete concept with kind of an appropriate feminine streak to it, as well as bizarre-looking applications such as sewing words into Jolyne's own flesh as reminders. S&W is so fucking abstract it kind of has to be versatile by default. It still is, but it seems less creative for it.


 No.748954

>>748771

>This. I wish the part could have just gone full /u/ as Araki intended.

Has that ever been proven? We've all seen FemAnnasui but I've never seen proof that Jolyne was going to be a lesbian with her.


 No.748957

>>748108

Jotaro was too busy fucking dolphins to go around looking for Kira or starting fights.


 No.748961

>>748267

>genuine pastafag

Are the mafiosi a bunch of quirky weirdos who run everything as well?


 No.751240

>>748957

What the hell? Dolphins?


 No.751245

>>751240

He's supposed to be an oceanologist. It isn't really shown anywhere in the three goddamn parts he appears in so you're free to make up whatever shit you want about that "character trait".


 No.755960

>>748961

No, I wish the mafia was as eclectic as Passione. The only time they ever do anything overt is when they assassinate politicians.


 No.756110

>>751245

I think me mentioned is once at the beginning of part four and then it never comes up again.


 No.756268

>>748108

>So I finally finished watching Diamond is Unbreakable, and I was pretty disappointed overall. I'm not saying it was shit or anything like that, but if the name of the show and characters had different designs, I wouldn't have been able to identify this as anything other than an anime knockoff of Jojo rather than it actually being a Jojo series.

This is how I felt about everything in the manga post-Battle Tendency. Except not the designs part as much, because the art style actually did change there.

>My main complaints for the series that it took much too long for anything plot related to happen.

This was one of my major problems starting with Stardust Crusaders onward. Lots of filler stand battles, very little plot. Compare to the first two parts which were much more dynamic, most conflicts actually advancing the story in some way.

>The other big problem is the fact that Josuke isn't even the main character.

Jotaro wasn't the main character of Stardust Crusaders until the end, really. At least SC had a really awesome finale that almost made up for the clusterfest I had to read through to get to it.


 No.756283

>>756110

Its mentioned again in part 6


 No.756851

>>756110

>>756283

Yeah it's mentioned in both part 4 and 6, it's just never really exploited. He's mentioned at the very end of 4 that, hey, by the way, he's written an entire thesis about some morioh fish. That's pretty much it.




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