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/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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1077fe No.856434

Hello, I just left a church service of a church I was very enthusiastic to try because the led prayer that I was engaged in went from being merely overly political to overtly blasphemous, and I could not stay in good conscience. I feel very rude for leaving of course, and did not want to be contentious, but my heart wouldn't let me stay.

Could more seasoned Christians than me please provide relevant Bible passages related to:

- Wishing for certain worldly/political outcomes in a church prayer

- Participating in a (group) prayer when one actually disagrees with what is being said

- Obeying or disobeying worldly governments, especially when one's bodily integrity/health is at stake?

____________________________
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e4e638 No.856439

>>856434

>- Obeying or disobeying worldly governments, especially when one's bodily integrity/health is at stake?

>Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God:

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37bd24 No.856440

>>856434

>- Wishing for certain worldly/political outcomes in a church prayer

If those outcomes lead to something of significance like saving lives from destruction, I don't see why not. I can see situations where this is a perfectly reasonable thing to pray for.

>- Participating in a (group) prayer when one actually disagrees with what is being said

God knows what you personally are praying for. He knows whether or not you agree with something, and prayer is addressed directly to God. So that should eliminate any problems. However, I will also say if someone said something that you disagreed with for personal reasons, it may or may not be appropriate to bring that up to them, depends on what it is. If someone said something doctrinally incorrect, then you will probably want to have a conversation about it afterward to see whether they have a scriptural basis for what they said, if it seems like it contradicts something in Scripture. If someone said something extremely ridiculous, which is incredibly unlikely, we can first pray for God to enlighten that person and forgive them, while also being bold to assert the truth of God's word that anyone might be denying or to rebuke the untruth that anyone might be bringing up.

>- Obeying or disobeying worldly governments, especially when one's bodily integrity/health is at stake?

Well, Romans 13 tells us that the "higher powers" are put in place for God's reasons, which we as sinful men may not understand at times. Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, once had a conversation with Pilate that went like this:

>Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?

>Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above:

- John 19:10-11

And so, according to Romans 13 we find that these "higher powers" still have God above them, and He is able to intervene at any time to save those who He will, just like He did most noticeably with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego when they were thrown into the fiery furnace, Daniel in the lion's den, or Paul and Silas in the jailer's house. There are plenty of examples of this happening throughout history. He can do it with miracles or in ways that no one even notices. God has all power to intervene in any case at any time that it suits His purposes. We are sinners too, so God may also have a greater purpose in allowing suffering to befall us, that the person directly executing the sentence does not see. Peter wrote this:

>Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

- 1 Peter 4:19

The situation where we are punished by the state may even arise because of an unjust law that is created against us, with Christians as the targets. It is clear that in this situation we should obey God rather than men, and be willing to let God do whatever to us that He will for obeying Him. We should expect and be ready for this, in those times when worldly governments contradict God. Hence, Peter's famous rejoinder in Acts 5,

>Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

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dbb4cc No.856443

>>856439

>Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God:

The scriptures aren't pithy proverbs. If you're going to quote it, quote it in context, as this anon did: >>856440

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720d2d No.856487

>>856440

>If those outcomes lead to something of significance like saving lives from destruction, I don't see why not. I can see situations where this is a perfectly reasonable thing to pray for.

This is not Christian doctrine. Jesus actually tells us how to pray and specifically what to pray for and arguably the exact words we should use.

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37bd24 No.856491

>>856487

>I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

>For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

>For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

>Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

- 1 Timothy 2:1-4

>Pray without ceasing.

>In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

- 1 Thessalonians 5:17-18

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720d2d No.856492

>>856491

Jesus tells us specifically how to pray in Matthew 6. "After this manner therefore pray ye: [….]"

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