/tech/ - Technology★

Aka one of the only retarded things from Plan9. Keyboard is better for text editing. The end.

>>999345

Whoops, confused it with Sam. Still, you get it.

I've actually started using acme seriously, and it may be the best decision I've ever made. I work so much faster. And I haven't eeven set up my plumber yet. I'll post some stuff about it later - using the mouse is much more efficient than your intuition would suggest

>>999372

There's nothing to learn, acme integrates with all your Unix tools. It's initially weird but once you get it, it works great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP1xVpMPn8M

>>999345

in the same amount of time it took for you to complain about how inferior the mouse is and how much faster the keyboard is, you could've just used the mouse

>>999363

Well this is because ACME uses mouse chording instead of having the mouse just operate for simple point+click and context menus.

>>999397

Why are all of these UNIX purist people always on Mac?

Isn't Ross Cox the one who pozzed Go with CoC?

>>999444

>muh mouse

your trips are wasted

>>999444

This. Also, here's the real Unix desktop environment:

http://freshmeat.net/articles/the-antidesktop

reddit? reddit.

>>999444

>making my workflow more efficient is a deal breaker for me

It still has left and right arrows, as well as Ctrl-A Ctrl-E https://github.com/evbogdanov/acme

>>999426

>in the same amount of time it took for you to complain about how inferior the mouse is and how much faster the keyboard is, you could've just used the mouse

It's your RSI, it's your lack of macroability.

The biggest argument for ACME I usually see is "you can just target the place in your text"

But then these people secretly use control f and similar things when looking for things because they instinctively know that letting the computer do the work instead of manually scanning the file is superior to manually scanning the file.

Which leaves only "the immediate screen" for mouse to be "good", and "the immediate screen" is small enough to be navigated with the the excellent vim motions anyway, and, since they work on generic landmarks, can be repeated for similarily structured text, macros.

You cannot do that with the mouse, using a mouse for text editing is pants on head retarded, seriously.

>>999638

But to not be a total negative nancy:

If you really want to be a snowflake while actually getting some actual great benefits:

Download plover and learn steno.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtQzTUEuPWo

And practise it here.

https://ploverdojo.appspot.com/

Enjoy 200 wpm and less RSI strain in a year or so.

We're all weapon grade autists here, after all.

Aka, always ahead of normalfag curves.

>>999638

You can search for text in acme, you right click it. Simple as that. Literally all the mouse is used for is selecting text and executing commands or the plumber.

>>999636

You're not getting RSI using the mouse. You're more likely to get RSI using our weird, staggered, uncomfortable keyboards.

>macroability

It took me a while to figure out what the hell you meant. You can use macros in Acme, because you can pipe the damn buffer into scripts and pipe the output straight back into your screen. The limit to what can be done with acme scripts and macros is the limit of what your *nix system allows you to do.

>>999649

>You can search for text in acme, you right click it

Right click what? acme? the text?

>>999650

>You're not getting RSI using the mouse. You're more likely to get RSI using our weird, staggered, uncomfortable keyboards.

Man, I'm glad I don't have to be a liar like that AND not even getting a good deal out of the lie.

But you do you, use your acme, I won't even argue anymore, I did that many times before.

I can see the "use a clit mouse" or "modern touch pads are not all the way over to the right" ready and poised in your mind.

>>999660

I've used acme for a few minutes a while back so I'm not the best reference but IIRC, yes, if you want to search for something, you either just right click an existing portion of text or you type text and right click it.

>>999650

Uh, hello McFly? You can do the same fucking thing in plain vi (nvi), without even having a stupid mouse connected to your computer.

     ! argument(s)
     [range] ! argument(s)
             Execute a shell command, or filter lines through a shell command.

As for keyboard, I've been using the same Kinesis model I bought 20 years ago. Haven't owned a mouse since then. They only brought me a lot of pain.

>>999682

Acme does much more than "Execute a shell command, or filter lines through a shell command." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP1xVpMPn8M

I might mess with https://github.com/driusan/de eventually, I just can't be bothered to learn go to add in what I need at this time.

>>999687

I don't care. Anything that requires evil mouse is a non-starter.

>>999476

That honestly sound exactly like Emacs.

>>999687

He implies that Emacs is strictly another environment in an ecosystem of bloated bubbles and brick walls, but that's blatantly not wholly true. There are people like that, who try to implement everything in Elisp (and fail, because Elise is intentionally retarded), but Emacs isn't the vacuum people might brag about it being. A lot of Unixmancers use Emacs, including this guy I know who I ironically uses Slackware. I was that guy who I ironically used Slackware for a while, because it probably has the best ports experience on Lignux via sbotools. Emas actually plays very nicely with Unix tools and is probably the most ideal frontend for them, because, unlike toolkits which are static and oftentimes don't represent the functionality of its core program in its entirety, Emacs is very protean in how its extended and articulates the end user's desired interaction paradigm by default. See ledger and surfraw. It binds Unix programs in a highly consummate environment without adulterating their core potential.

I remember an interview with the creator of Vi (forgot his name), and one of his biggest dissatisfactions with Emacs, modal paradigm is that it isn't WYSIWYG. He wanted actual margins where Emacs can just use visual-fill-column and not impose superficial properties on other people. It's a plaintext editor.

>>999798

>It binds Unix programs in a highly consummate environment

I think this is what Lisp Machine guy is going on about, anon.

>>999799

Fuck that guy. A lisp machine is just a built-in interpreter.

>>999689

Nah. You can rrun a shell in acme with the "win" command.

>>999442

Well, the obvious answer is in reaction to de facto GNU bloat. Nevermind the fact that MacOS's init system is extended in XML, I think, not that it really matters. You can do a lot of self-destructive things when you're posturing, which is why it's really not good to by wholly abstinent of free software or proprietary software, because you'd be missing the point of any free software endeavor, copyleft or otherwise. GNU was written on a proprietary operating system -- modeled after one, too.

Drawing from the quotations of that guy on BSD Now or that other guy on FLOSS Daily, both of which use openly use MacOS and its corresponding hardware in some capacity, a lot of ostensible "UNIX purist[s]" don't really want to meditate on the core principles of Unix and apply them creatively, or at least flexibly, so they choose a conservative posture. It's idolatry, plain and simple. The Unix lover/hater dichotomy is two polarities of an unhealthy glut of fetishistic idolatry, the former of which is really no different than the latter, because they both dwell on the retroactive perceived possible realization of a presently unrealized reality (that of a pure Unix ecosystem/that of a LM-populated ecosystem) and cultivate that dissatisfaction in shitty reactionary dick swinging. Ignore them both, but don't hate them, because we can always aspire to be better, to cultivate that frustration healthily; and those two images are by principle better than the status quo, but just as symbols, not in their literal manifestation.

>>999442

OS X is a certified Unix system. This means this is more attractive to Unix fans.

>>999837

Yes, but only technically. Anyone with a brain knows better than to touch that sinking ship.

>>999345

To be fair, Plan9 in some ways kind of anticipated iOS. Or at the mobile phone/SoaS interaction framework.

>>999837

Translation: Apple bought a UNIX certification

>here's the editor, goyim, don't try to expand or change how it works because you can only put stuff into these nifty bars you have to middle click on

>oh you're going to want a good three button mouse, and no we don't support the scroll wheel

>also don't try to change how the editor works, and we will never support emacs because fuck you even though we could

plan9 needs somebody to completely slap a brand new gui onto it and leave the useful parts intact, and port a modern browser because fuck you i want it as a daily driver and my ameritrade doesn't trade itself

>>999913

emacs is bloated shit it is a good thing they don't support it.

>>999913

You can change how it works, and you don't just have to run code from bars, any text on the screen can be executed. Also it does support the scroll wheel. 9Front supports Emacs through a Linux ABI, but most plan 9 users use Plan9port. I don't know why plan 9 wouldn't support emacs, it's just not AT&T's job to port all the code over to the plan9 libc.

I remember why I muted the word goyim now. It usually means you have nothing of value to contribute (and don't have a clue what you're talking about).

>>999927

Emacs isn't necessarly GNU Emacs. Look at mg or jasspa.

>>999837

A real Unix fan would be running NetBSD or OpenBSD.

>>999927

Why would it be the responsibility of anyone other than a package's maintainers to port it to another operating system? You're basically implying that Emacs is so necessary for the quintessential Unix experience that an OS maintainer would be obligated to port a package that isn't even their own.

>>999913

The quote "People talk about getting used to a new editor, but over time, it is precisely the opposite that should happen - the editor should get used to us." always stays true.