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 No.967476>>967540 >>967580 >>967731 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]

Anons I've been learning D and I think this is the language I've been looking for my whole life.

 No.967478

ok.


 No.967480>>967483

D is already deprecated


 No.967483>>967498

>>967480

By what? Half-assed Go? Unreadable Rust?


 No.967498

>>967483

>Unreadable Rust

I also thought it was unreadable and ugly until I actually put some time into understanding why.


 No.967540>>967558 >>967566

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>>967476 (OP)

>Pretends to be a systems language

>Garbage collected

dropped


 No.967558>>967563 >>967568

>>967540

It can be turned off.


 No.967563

>>967558

It can't be. Almost nothing works with it disabled. Being able to turn it off is a meme.


 No.967566>>967568

>>967540

>systems means manual memory management

Good LARP, faggot.


 No.967568>>967583 >>967873

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>>967566

>GC pauses are acceptable in systems code

you are a fucking retard

>>967558

yes anon and you can write Java in a style that never allocates. The language is totally fucked when you do though.


 No.967580>>967874 >>968146

>>967476 (OP)

>>D

Why aren't you using the E Programming language? To be honest I only program in 4D 32bit image editors anymore, text editors are so last century.


 No.967583>>967606

>>967568

>GC pauses are acceptable in systems code

Well maybe you should use a GC which doesn't make you pause.


 No.967606

>>967583

Which D does not have. Even if it did have one pauseless GC styles have so many tradeoffs.


 No.967703>>967715

I've been eyeing D as well. With GC and exceptions disabled (which is officially supported with the -betterC flag), I think it could be a good replacement for systems/"game dev"-style C++; if you plan to write everything from scratch anyway, it's worth considering alternate languages.

My problems are as follows:

>Unsurprisingly you can't just #include C or C++ header files for C/C++ libraries and platform APIs. You need to either create your own bindings, download someone else's or auto generate them with a third party tool. This isn't that big of a deal but it's something you don't have to worry about with C or C++. You could write just your platform code in C or C++, but at that point you would probably start to wonder why you're bothering to write the core in D.

>The leads do want to change this, but at the moment the standard library is absolutely not ready to be used without GC or exceptions. You are on your own if you decide to use -betterC. You'd be in pretty much the same boat with C, but C++'s standard library has arguable usefulness, and it would have been nice if D were "halfway between C and C++ with a better standard library"

>The language in general is like a better version of the style of C++ that was in vogue 10 years ago. OO, inheritance, exceptions, etc. Programmers have thankfully started to realize that this style is harmful to productivity and performance, so while once again the leads are making steps away from it, it is a shame that so much of a language that purports to be "C++ without the legacy crap" is tied up in a legacy programming style that is on its way out.

>I haven't made serious use of the language yet, but apparently serious bugs with the compiler and/or standard library are commonly reported by some users. I'm not sure how true this is, but if so I would rather not build my empire upon an unstable foundation.

>The leads Walter Bright and Andrei Alexandrescu do have, I think, a sincere desire to steer the language toward "betterC," but the existing userbase seems rooted in the older style, in particular denying that GC could ever be a problem for certain common usecases. You don't have to use the community's code but you are affected by the way they steer development.

And perhaps both the dumbest and greatest problem

>Jonathan Blow has been working on the premier meme-language replacement for C++ for several years now, Jai. It hasn't been released yet and won't be by 2020 at the earliest, but almost everything I've seen indicates that it will one day be the true successor that encourages efficient C-like "data oriented design" with productivity enhancing metaprogramming features and an extensive standard library that covers most of what I'd care about. He certainly, as a guy that has shipped multiple commercial games, talks about problems that are more relevant to game programmers. So it makes me wonder, why should I bother investing heavily in a meme-language when one that is explicitly better suited to my usage is just around the corner? It would probably be smarter to hedge my bets and stick with C or (heavily restricted) C++.


 No.967713>>967730 >>967875

Go

Rust

Ada

D


 No.967715>>968102

>>967703

>Jonathan Blow and Jai

I am surprised someone else on /tech/ knows about this, the language itself has some good ideas regarding the actual areas of C/C++ which need significant development. The issue though is its developed by exclusively by Blow and as a sort of side project so its unlikely to go anywhere.


 No.967721>>967723

>Go

some braindead choices, though it has good cryptocurrency making it a good choice for network backends

>Rust

weird syntax and slow compilations, but no gc and memory-safety in compile time

>Ada

near perfection, did everything Rust promises decades before and has a Wirthian syntax but it is overcomplicated

>D

C++ with superior syntax, but segfaulting all the same

tl;dr the search for the perfect language continues


 No.967723>>967735 >>967876

>>967721

>Majority of comments are about syntax

god I fucking hate you nodevs.


 No.967730

>>967713

ATS

The only one that's actually substantially better to make up for the disruption of having to use another language, and yet it works better with C than any of those - you can slide it right into your project, like medicine from a hypodermic needle, and go on from there. It's also unlike D in that you can use with a GC and without a GC, and both styles are fine. GC is more like "sloppy ATS" than GCless is like "crippled ATS", thanks to linear types being so good.


 No.967731>>967877

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>>967476 (OP)

>Anons I've been learning D and I think this is the language I've been looking for my whole life.

When that nice feel wears off -- and it will -- you'll be left with boredom.


 No.967735

>>967723

What else defines a language besides syntax, semantics and implementation? I mentioned all of them. Style? You can have that in another one.


 No.967873

>>967568

>Memory leaks are acceptable in system level code


 No.967874

>>967580

Because E is unmaintained hot garbage


 No.967875

>>967713

Ada is irrelevent, Go produces useless clutter and acts autismal when you don't do things the Google (tm) way and Rust is just ugly.


 No.967876>>968048 >>969663

>>967723

Overlooking syntax is the mark of someone who doesn't program enough.


 No.967877>>967879

>>967731

Never wore off of C or Assembly.


 No.967879>>967881

>>967877

Assembly is life. But I would not use C for most of anything today. For anything I would normally be doing in C i've been using Crystal


 No.967881>>967971

>>967879

I've been looking into Crystal because the devs at my workplace are all good at Ruby but we sometimes need a speed boost so it might be good to write libraries in Crystal.


 No.967971

>>967881

If you run only stable Ruby releases, or run preview versions but didn't hear, Ruby will have an optional JIT in 2.6 (Christmas this year) giving off a significant performance boost. Still nowhere close warmed-up TruffleRuby 50x speeds and even more using the experimental Substrate VM.


 No.967975

That's fine. It's an alright compromise between native and higher-level, and manages to have very good performance, decent semantics, but is still garbage collected. If you're looking for something almost as flexible as C++ but with some Java-like semantics, it's a good language. Its templates are pretty good to work with, and other compile-time support it offers is really good.

It doesn't really replace C, C++, Java, or Rust, but it does fill its own niche fairly well. I'm not a fan of it, but it's really not bad.

That said, what's really the point of this thread? There's not really much you've given us to discuss.


 No.968048

>>967876

Complaining about syntax is strong mark of faggots that have no idea what they are talking about.


 No.968102>>968104

>>967715

>about to enter closed beta with people he knows

>unlikely to go anywhere


 No.968104

>>968102

Shit like this is always "just around the corner".


 No.968140

ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ


 No.968146

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>>967580

>32bit


 No.968566>>968682 >>968731

Then I suppose you'll find it disappointing to discover that Alexandrescu has abandoned the language back to full on C++ support again.


 No.968682>>969111

>>968566

sounds like an interesting guy

oh he has a twitter

>KIDS IN CAGES

>RUSSIAN COLLUSION

nevermind


 No.968731

>>968566

wat? He literally works full-time for the D Language Foundation


 No.969111>>969146

>>968682

>it's real

I'm disappointed. From the forums/mailing list the community seemed like a bunch of normal apolitical white guys of yesteryear, which is the best you can expect from any technology not made by anons.


 No.969146>>969157

>>969111

Anyone linked into tech's normiesphere is now an antifa communist on HRT. There's just too much poison in those waters to drink from them and not succumb, especially socially challenged technophiles undergoing a focused assault.


 No.969150>>969172

Does it have a CoC(K)?, if not, it'll never be relevant.


 No.969157

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>>969146

tfw all the best programmers are communists or at best a-political.

/pol/ btfo!


 No.969172

>>969150

>>On Wednesday, 28 October 2015 at 17:36:03 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:

> I did not mean that absence of a Code of Conduct is license to abuse others. Just that a CoC is itself insulting, paternalistic, and not a solution.

Source: https://forum.dlang.org/post/n0r123$1s8r$1@digitalmars.com


 No.969663

>>967876

You're acting like Rust is asking you to program with hieroglyphs. By the sounds of it you have no fucking idea how to code with abstraction levels lower than poo in the loo Pajeet tier garbage.




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