[–]▶ No.963132>>963216 >>963224 >>963369 >>963695 >>963716 >>963757 >>963858 >>964366 >>964972 >>965017 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]
Am I the only one who fucking hates constantly updating everything? I'm running Arch as my main because there's no real non-rolling alternative. As an OS I mostly really like it, but the updates... Pretty much every day it nags me about dozens of new updates. According to official instructions, I'm supposed to be prepared for fixing breakage due to updates - so let's say I update every weekend. By then, over a hundred updates will accumulate. Shit takes hours, and that's if nothing breaks. Which is the real problem: In my several years of Arch usage, the ratio of updates that broke my system to updates that introduced a feature or fix that helped me was maybe 10 to 1. Given this, why would I even bother updating at all, until I'm forced to because some must have feature is introduced that I care about, which happens maybe once a year?
Of course, the problem isn't really Arch. Their rolling release bleeding edge model is a bit annoying, but clearly it's the only practical solution for maintainers to avoid support hell. The issue is that there is no distinction of meaningful updates from trivial updates. Yes I know there are major/minor version numbers but when's the last one anyone followed some sort of standardized system, or a package manager supported them with something like "only notify about major version increases" (again obviously impossible because retard devs can't follow standard versioning conventions). For instance, a fix to a major security issue like heartbleed (meme as it may be) is significant. Support for a file type you work with, which was previously not supported, is significant. Solving a long standing, major usability bug is significant. Fixing a typo in some obscure dialog of the Laotian localization is not. But 99% of software will happily nag you about all of these with equal insistence.
I remember back when internet was not widespread, ubiquitous or cheap, people actually bothered to finish software before releasing. The community didn't simply tolerate non-working, broken pieces of trash because eventually an update might fix it. Even the updates were few, rare, and meaningfully improved things. There was no expectation for users to dutifully install trivial updates every few days, as nagged by their auto-updater. Of course, when you consider that a user might have hundreds or thousands of programs installed, you get never ending nagging about updates.
▶ No.963135>>963150 >>963369 >>963858 >>964117 >>965017
Welcome to $CURRENT_YEAR. Agile development sure is awesome. It's best just to stick to devuan or slackware and update manually with apt once per month or so when you have time to fix potential breakages, which are rare if you use stable.
▶ No.963140>>963319 >>963335
>>Am I the only one who fucking hates constantly updating
>>I'm running Arch as my main
Stopped reading there. Turns out you are a big fucking moron. Install Debian & Devuan & Gentoo & Homoware and shut the fuck up.
▶ No.963150>>963349
>>963135
I wouldn't mind it if devs kept this bullshit contained in their dev environment. Why do they have to push their cancer on users? Oh right, because users are free testers now.
▶ No.963154
Gentoo doesn't have this issue. Most of the time if there is a problem, a package will just fail to compile leaving your system still in a healthy state.
▶ No.963207>>963215
>doesn't like updates
>installs Arch
What a prancing faggot you are.
Install Debian Stable, Ubuntu LTS or OpenSUSE Leap and shut your whore mouth. Or just kys.
▶ No.963215
>>963207
I think the fag's problem is that he wants relatively new software, but without major updates. He probably wants Fedora.
▶ No.963216
>>963132 (OP)
Just install CentOS / RedHat and the only updates you will ever get are security patches.
▶ No.963224
>>963132 (OP)
How about debian testing? Do a minimal install and work from there. Then do some magic with lvm or something so you can rollback easily if an update breaks stuff.
Then just do apt-get update/upgrade once a week or so.
▶ No.963319>>963329 >>963384 >>964030
>>963140
>Install Debian & Devuan
there ya go updates aren't a problem when your software is only updated twice per decade.
▶ No.963329>>963443
>>963319
Here's a faggot who thinks memeing release makes any difference.
▶ No.963335>>963342
>>963140
i run gentoo and i also hate updating a bunch of bullshit practically every day. it's literally terrorism. if you don't update you become vulnerable to the latest 0days. if you do update, usually everything just gets worse because they're a bunch of (((UX))) enhancements, telemetry, and other nu-dev shit
▶ No.963342
>>963335
as others have said, install Devuan
▶ No.963349
>>963150
For Arch they are. Other rolling distros are less insane.
▶ No.963369>>963726
>>963132 (OP)
I agree, this extends to the non-Linux world as well. As >>963135 said, SCRUM and the likes are to blame, weekly sprints mean weekly releases, and the infrastructure nowadays easily allows for shipping weekly updates, and intra-weekly hotfixes even. However for almost everything business related there are "long term support" or "hardened" or "verified" branches/versions.
▶ No.963384>>963395 >>963443
>>963319
Please don't make statements about things you know nothing about.
Debian releases updates every couple of days so, even in the stable branch. There are things such as backported bugfixes and security fixes.
▶ No.963395>>963443
>>963384
Yeah but those are security-only. That's great if you're a programmer who actually gets shit done and doesn't want random pieces of the environment shifting and breaking constantly, not so great if you want to be seen wearing the latest in software fashion.
▶ No.963443>>963471 >>963480
>>963395
>That's great if you're a programmer who actually gets shit done
what compiling against ancient versions of libraries?
>>963384
>>963329
>There are things such as backported bugfixes
>backported bugfixes
Please don't make statements about things you know nothing about.
▶ No.963471>>963726
>>963443
>what compiling against ancient versions of libraries?
Have you ever wondered how RedHat became worth more than AMD if their main product, RHEL, is "ancient" by gentoo faggot standards?
>backported bugfixes
They do backport bugfixes. This isn't anything unusual at all in software development, either. You seem to know literally nothing about software development.
▶ No.963480>>963540
>>963443
There's nothing odd about a backported bugfix. That's a strange thing to say.
▶ No.963540>>963556 >>963558
>>963480
Your right, it would be nice if debian actually did that.
▶ No.963556>>963726
>>963540
Perhaps not, but most commercial distributions will likely do that.
▶ No.963558>>963726
>>963540
They do, nigger. As we speak I'm dealing with having to fix up their backported kernel patches to merge in a different base kernel version for a patch set my company needs that was easier to take if doing it this way than attempting to forward port the patch set. There are 512 backported patches.
The only two distros with enough engineering manpower to do large scale backporting are RedHat and Debian. Everyone else either rides their dicks or finds a way around it (see: the "rolling" meme).
▶ No.963575
>Am I the only one who fucking hates constantly updating everything?
>I'm running Arch as my main
So... self-inflicted problem thread?
▶ No.963663
Yeah I fucking hate it. I fucking hate everything about modern OS and hardware, and the web, and the software. It all fucking sucks. I miss the Amiga and 8-bit computers, before all this stupid shit started. Even fucking DOS was less shitty.
▶ No.963682
just use any stable branch
tell me a single feature that you absolutely fucking needed to upgrade for in the last 6 months
▶ No.963695>>963884
>>963132 (OP)
>fixing potential breakages
>not simply rolling back your root partition to an earlier snapshot
▶ No.963716>>964051
>>963132 (OP)
>arch
>nags
Wut?
▶ No.963726>>963731 >>963741 >>963752 >>963792
>>963369
If you are a /biz/ person you know that SCRUM and Agile is the only way to be competitive (if you are not a large/botnet corporations with lots of resources).
>>963471
>>963556
See >>963558 but still most independent distros with big goals like pottering-free or non-copies (that excludes Mint and Elementary for Ubuntu, AntegrOS and Manjaro for Arch) has a hard time back-porting due to resource constraints.
▶ No.963731
>>963726
In the business I work at our best devs just shit all over the Scrum and Agile bullshit, the business runs perfectly fine. Asshat.
▶ No.963741
▶ No.963752
>>963726
Debian also uses its crazy manpower to make the huge groundshifts across the whole Linux ecosystem rather than just maintain software. They made it a project many years ago to get IPv6 up to speed and fixed tens of thousands of programs to support it and pushed those patches upstream where possible. The reason all other distros have good IPv6 support now is because of Debian. They've decided to make repeatable builds a priority which has seen similar modifications to tens of thousands of programs that all other distros are benefiting from.
People often don't realize just how much engineering that project does. It's massive, like a corporation.
▶ No.963757
>>963132 (OP)
>I hate updates
<I'm running Arch
Found your problem. Unironically install Gentoo. It has all the benefits of the minimal install, the high customizability, and the comprehensive wiki, but it cuts down on updates from bleeding edge to just cutting edge.
▶ No.963792>>963850 >>964238
>>963726
>muh agile
>muh standup meetings
>muh getting some tiny unit of meaningless work done so i can not look bad in daily standup
this shit is why modern software like Fortnite BR has the same giant protocol bugs for an entire year and still isn't fixed. scrum is too modular to address any non-trivial issue with a product. literally all you can do is add new (((UX))) enhancements or else you get fired because your shitty agile metrics can't capture that you're accomplishing any work
▶ No.963850
>>963792
The worst part of agile is how once something is out you NEVER EVER NOT EVER have the time or resources to go back and clean it up and fix it and refactor it for the better. Implementation is kind of shitty but got the job done a week early? This is your life now, it will never change because you'll never find time to go back and make it not shitty.
▶ No.963857
> I the only one who fucking hates constantly updating everything?
> I'm running Arch
LOL.
▶ No.963858>>963867 >>964058 >>964118 >>964272
>>963132 (OP)
>so let's say I update every weekend. By then, over a hundred updates will accumulate. Shit takes hours, and that's if nothing breaks.
Do you live in the third world? Are you posting this from your 56k dial-up modem? In what world does a week of Arch updates take hours to install without troubleshooting, it's like maybe fifteen minutes tops.
Regardless, Slackware doesn't have this problem, and even if I used -current instead of a stable release, it still wouldn't have this problem. Basically >>963135 except apt is a dumpster fire and nobody in their right mind would want to use it.
▶ No.963867
>>963858
DSL (7mbit/s) fag here. I have a shit ton of things installed on Arch and yeah updates only take a few minutes once a week or so.
▶ No.963884>>963887
>>963695
Rolling back, but then you realize it is btrfs, so you have to say a prayer and slaughter 3 chickens in the hopes that it works properly.
▶ No.963887
>>963884
Just use ZFS anon.
▶ No.964030
>>963319
>stable is the only Debian branch
yep, moron detected
▶ No.964051
>>963716
This humongous faggot apparently not only inflicted Arch upon himself, but also installed some GUI updater software to exacerbate the pain.
You're in a gay BDSM thread. Run.
▶ No.964058
>>963858
There's nothing wrong with apt.
▶ No.964117
>>963135
OpenBSD has it even better.
▶ No.964118
>>963858
I've heard people shit on apt but I never had issues with it
▶ No.964154>>964159 >>964170 >>964211
This constant updating comes from the UNIX philosophy of "designing" software. They have no requirements and no design, so anything can grow to whatever size it can. Maybe that's the real problem with /usr. Once they filled the /bin drive, they could have realized that their software was getting too bloated and redesigned the redundant "tools" into something smaller and more powerful, but instead they spilled them onto the home directory disk.
First the kernel grew, then the C library, then the
number of daemons. Soon one of its window systems was
requiring two megabytes of swap space for each open window.
Unix began to bulge in strange, unflattering places. But
Unix continued to take the drugs and its internal organs
continued to grow. They grew out its ears and nostrils.
They placed incredible stresses on Unix's brain until it
finally liquefied under pressure. Soon Unix had the mass of
Andre the Giant, the body of the Elephant Man, and the mind
of a forgotten Jack Nicholson character.
The worst strain was on Unix's mind. Unable to
assimilate all the conflicting patchworks of features it had
ingested, its personality began to fragment into millions of
distinct, incompatible operating systems. People would
cautiously say "good morning Unix. And who are we today?"
and it would reply "Beastie" (BSD), or "Domain", or "I'm
System III, but I'll be System V tomorrow."
Psychiatrists labored for years to weld together the two
major poles of Unix's personality, "Beasty Boy", an
inner-city youth from Berkeley, and "Belle", a southern
transvestite who wanted a to be a woman. With each attempt,
the two poles would mutate, like psychotic retroviruses,
leaving their union a worthless blob of protoplasm requiring
constant life support remain compatible with its parent
personalities.
Finally, unbalanced by its own cancerous growth, Unix
fell into a vat of toxic radioactive wombat urine, from
which it emerged, skin white and hair green. It smelled
like somebody's dead grandmother. With a horrible grin on
its face, it set out to conquer the world.
▶ No.964159
>>964154
Where can I read the entire source of these rants? Also, are you using a bot to pull them up for you?
▶ No.964170>>964223 >>964224 >>964414 >>965008
>>964154
Lispfag, you blame Unix and C for more than /pol/ blames the jews. Let that sink in. I'm starting to think that when you spill your coffee or stub your toe your first reflex is to curse Unix.
▶ No.964211>>964351
>>964154
Point me towards the alternative, please. I dislike unix but I haven't found anything better yet.
▶ No.964223
>>964170
But /pol/ is always right. <spoiler>Besides, only a jew would create UNIX</spoiler>
▶ No.964224
>>964170
It could be the Jews though. You see their Weimar degeneracy on display degrading society and it evokes anger inside of you which impairs your judgement. Instead of carefully navigating your surroundings, you stub your toe. Thanks Jews! Thanks a lot.
▶ No.964238>>964487
>>963792
Thats not true at all. Scrum has the ability to handle 'epics' just fine. Your problem is that your scrum master is a brainlet.
This is very common in the agile world: A half-assed manager watches a TED talk on "how to get more trannies in software development" and during the talk, one of the trannies mentions 'scrum'. Two wikipedia searches later and now that sack of shit is a 'scrum master'.
▶ No.964268
Arch updates just fine for me. I really don't understand how the fuck you people manage to fuck up updating your distro.
▶ No.964272>>964276
>>963858
Mate I live in the 3rd world and I have 50 mbit/s internet, faster than the average US connection according to speed test
▶ No.964276
>>964272
Quit bragging. We can't all be lucky enough to be born in the 3rd world.
▶ No.964351
>>964211
Any 8-bit computer is better than Unix or other modern OS and the hardware they need. You don't waste your time constantly doing updates and upgrades and playing the unending security theatre game.
▶ No.964366>>964487
>>963132 (OP)
As time goes on it takes less time to find and exploit vulnerabilities, so programs have to update faster.
It also takes less time to find and fix bugs, so devs release more and more frequent updates.
Of couse, there's retards that think pushing every commit to users is the best ways to find bugs, and retards that don't value backwards compatibility: get rid of those, and updates slow down to reasonable rates.
▶ No.964414
>>964170
The Jews are actually behind everything, though.
▶ No.964462
You keep getting all these updates because you're not running Windows. See when you run Linux, some updates don't install properly, and the backend services that communicate with the CPU become confused. Once this confusion occurs, the update cycle gets stuck and restarts over and over again. This is why you keep getting prompted for updates. Linux was not created with the expertise that Windows was created with and lacks the proper computer licensing. The result is a buggy machine that is even illegal to operate in some countries. The best course of action is to run Windows again, do a disk defrag, and then let all the updates install via Windows Update. This ensures that the CPU is running properly and doesn't become confused by Linux's silly, amateur implementation.
▶ No.964487
>>964238
>'epics'
hahahahaha
tell me some good software developed by "true" agile
>>964366
>faster
no
you need to constantly update all dependencies because only the latest and most bloated version of your software receives security updates, and it becomes incompatible with old versions of its dependencies after 40 bloat patches
▶ No.964972
>>963132 (OP)
>takes hours
Nigga wtf you using dialup?
▶ No.965008
>>964170
jews are guilty more often than not though
▶ No.965017>>966472 >>966607
>>963135
Can we all finally agree to type “current year” as $(date +%Y), please?
>>963132 (OP)
You know, OP, you made me thinking.
Is it possible to reach a state of software development when a piece of software no longer requires any updates?
▶ No.966472>>966508
>>965017
>Is it possible to reach a state of software development when a piece of software no longer requires any updates?
It was already being reached routinely up until about 10-20 years ago.
▶ No.966508
>>966472
>says someone 10-20 years old
▶ No.966523
tor recently updated and changed the default search bar from startpage to duckduckgo
just FYI
▶ No.966607
>>965017
no fuck this gay unix shit