[–]▶ No.949656>>949699 >>949717 >>950737 >>951720 >>952404 >>957117 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]
What is the best combo for modern JS development? I know angular, but some say react/redux or vue is better, and I'm starting to see shilling for Bit. I like mithril.js but no employers have ever heard of it. My last gig ran npm, webpack, typescript/babel, angular, but I'd like to start studying the best setup that will be in vogue for the next 5 years. I know JS is haram and not the way of god, but I need to pay jizya like the rest of us non-neets.
▶ No.949660>>949672
>js is slow, bloated, and shit, is there anything we can do about that?
>I know, run it through an additional bloated framework!
▶ No.949672
>>949660
i agree with you, i just want to pay rent and maybe go on a vacation. As i said, mithril deploys at 8kb, but not many vendors know of it, or want it.
▶ No.949673>>949678
>I know angular, but some say react/redux or vue is better, and I'm starting to see shilling for Bit.
>I like mithril.js but no employers have ever heard of it. My last gig ran npm, webpack, typescript/babel, angular [...]
Thank God I don't have the slightest idea what these are.
▶ No.949674>>949676
▶ No.949676>>949705
>>949674
i prefer vamilla js, but yknow, jobs
▶ No.949678
>>949673
allah has been kind to you, to prevent your mind from being corrupted by web dev
▶ No.949699>>949745 >>950928
▶ No.949705>>949763
>>949676
Does your job force you to be retarded and use that framework?
If not just explain to them that highest performance and security lie within a good js writer. Not some stupid framework.
▶ No.949717
>>949656 (OP)
>My last gig ran npm, webpack, typescript/babel, angular
Why are these needed to create hypertext documents?
▶ No.949763>>949766 >>949771
>>949705
t. non-webdev
Truth is, you have to learn whatever framework the company's CTO or architect decides on. It doesn't matter what the "best" is unless you are said-shotcaller. As long as you have one templating engine mastered, you'll be able to pickup the others pretty easily. It's more about the concepts than the tools. With that being said...
>angular, typescript, babel, npm
I can see why you've got itchy feet. It's a bunch of disparate parts that have a very rigid set of patterns to get anything done. Do you really think webdev will look anything like this in 10 years, especially with webassembly proliferation? I highly doubt it. React is a more granular tool because its just a library and not an entire framework, so if their shitty license which could submit you to patent claims by Faceberg isn't an issue for you, I'd switch to that.
▶ No.949766>>951064
>>949763
>patent claims by Faceberg
Correction: they switched to MIT license, so that's no longer an issue.
▶ No.949771>>949790
>>949763
Why? You can mix normal and shitcode easily and if your employer doesn't like you writing good code then you can just go somewhere else.
▶ No.949790>>949795 >>950928
>>949771
>mix normal and shitcode framework code easily
Not on a team with multiple people, no.
If the page already has the framework loaded its usually more terse and safer to just invoke the provided methods. Loading in a redundant framework that you're more familiar with is also not an option. Even where vanilla JS is used, a team usually rolls its own framework or library of wrapper methods. A common pitfall of ignoring it would be, e.g. using a direct DOM call to attach an event listener instead of passing it to the library wrapper, causing pre/post hooks to not be registered.
It's also easier to on-board new members onto a dev team with uniform coding conventions, which are usually enforced per code reviews on professional teams.
▶ No.949795>>949802 >>949807
>>949790
>safer
Frameworks are never safe.
Using textContent and DOM methods IS SAFE.
SAFER AND FASTER THAN ANYTHING ELSE.
EVEN IF YOUR FRAMEWORK USES IT IT WILL STILL BE SLOWER THAN DIRECTLY CALLING IT!
▶ No.949802>>949813 >>950928 >>951660
>>949795
Using a framework for browser polyfills is much safer than invoking contingent features directly. I'm not convinced you've ever worked on a proper web application, especially considering your passion for saving a callstack frame in a language that suffers from callback hell.
▶ No.949807>>949813 >>950063
>>949795
Random bold capital letters in your rant... I've seen that before. Are you the same retard who thinks you don't need math when you can just 'lookup' formulas?
▶ No.949813>>949815 >>949818
>>949807
>don't need math
I think you should have at least a basic understanding of math, I did not say that and no I'm not that retard you're talking about.
>>949802
>Using a framework for browser polyfills is much safer than invoking contingent features directly.
Ahh I thought you meant safe as in safe if you mean supporting Internet Explorer which looks more like a swiss cheese than you're right.
However if you want to support all browsers you can just refrain from using JS at all and do all those smooth animations with CSS3 when those aren't available you can have :hover at the same time on a menu so it still works without the animation.
▶ No.949815
>>949813
when those aren't available you can have :hover at the same time
when those aren't available you can have absolute styling in :hover at the same time
▶ No.949818
>>949813
*then
not my native lang
▶ No.949851>>950928
https://mithril.js.org/
it plays well with other stuff.
▶ No.950063
>>949807
He's definitely 'a' retard, not sure if hes 'the' retard.
▶ No.950708
>vogue for the next 5 years
Static html served from whatever still functions.
▶ No.950737>>950742
>>949656 (OP)
No framework at all. Javascript should just supplement the page as the page should work just as well when JS is disabled or isn't supported.
▶ No.950742
>>950737
Nah man. All rendering should be done client side!
>The first load of the page should load the bootstrap java code.
>Then that code runs and fetches the JSON representation of the content
>Client side rendering is done.
This is the future, and it is web scale. All the hip, trendy and modern programmers know this. Only crusty OLD "systems" (whatever that is XD lol) programmers do server side rendering LOLz they probably use CGI.
▶ No.950925>>950928 >>951724 >>951867
Decent overview of learning react and relavant tech for modern webd dev op, I personally think react is the best thing to ever happen to modern web dev so far and a lot of people hate what they don't understand
▶ No.950928>>951205
>>949790
>>949802
>>949699
>>949851
(op here) If you've ever actually been a web dev, the options you have are indeed limited by management, or the next highest up dev that made the choice. Vanilla is the best, but you rarely get that option outside of writing methods within the framework. For very small projects, sure, an anonymous wrapper and vanilla is best, in order to get a "job" you will have to learn some framework enough to pass the interviews and not trigger your co-workers.
>>950925
This is good info, I'm going to have to focus on something and react always looked better than angular. Anything google makes me cringe, typescript makes me cringe, because they force the lifecycle and versioning upon you randomly.
I'm thinking mithril or react at this point.
▶ No.951064>>951222
>>949766
Since fucking when does MIT prevent patents? Last I checked, it predated software patents and thus offered absolutely no hard protection against patents. Apache license is MIT + patent protection.
▶ No.951205
>>950928
I would use whatever you expect to be maintained for the next 5+ years
▶ No.951222
>>951064
I was referring to Faceberg's retaliatory claims in the previous React licensing model.
>no hard protection against patents
>XYZ is patent protection
I think you're underestimating the Kafka-esque nature of patent law.
<In 1927, the U.S. Supreme Court said: "Any language used by the owner of the patent, or any conduct on his part exhibited to another from which that other may properly infer that the owner consents to his use of the patent in making or using it, or selling it, upon which the other acts, constitutes a license and a defense to an action for a tort."
Further reading for you here since you seem to be a kike and are interested in such things. I'm going back to writing my image processing script, enjoy.
https://opensource.com/article/18/3/patent-grant-mit-license
▶ No.951253>>951260
Why don't you americans just remove that software patent law. I mean are you also able to patent math over there? Sounds fucked up.
▶ No.951260>>951628
>>951253
Because we're not done inventing shit for the rest of the world to immediately appropriate and resent us for.
▶ No.951628
>>951260
Could you maybe reach down and touch your crotch? You sound like one whos Egotesticles have grown way out of proportions.
▶ No.951640
▶ No.951641
Moon.js is probably one of the least bloated out there
https://github.com/kbrsh/moon
▶ No.951660>>951676
If you're only learning frameworks to get jobs, then why are you asking here?
>learn them just enough to pass an interview, but no more
>learn them as early as possible, so that you can say you've known them for as long as possible
>pick the most popular framework, and pretend you love it
>use whatever the fuck your employer's using
This is the same shit you'll get on any other forum.
>>949802
>polyfills
In general, just don't. Use features that exist in all browsers, rather than selectively fucking over certain users. If you need to support something ancient, use jquery.
▶ No.951676>>951686
>>951660
>In general, just don't. Use features that exist in all browsers, rather than selectively fucking over certain users. If you need to support something ancient, use jquery.
If ((( some users ))) want to use Internet fucking Explorer then they deserve being fucked over.
▶ No.951686
>>951676
if you want them to suffer, don't give them any polyfill at all. I'm at a loss for which users you want to give a working website to, but also want it to be slower for them than other people, and are also cleanly divided around browser lines.
>jewish people prefer ie
Do (((echoes))) even mean anything anymore?
▶ No.951718
No JS at all. There is no business logic you cannot accomplish with HTML forms.
▶ No.951720
>>949656 (OP)
they're all shit and JS is shit.
>I know JS is haram and not the way of god, but I need to pay jizya like the rest of us non-neets.
then go to HN
▶ No.951724>>951732
>>950925
uhh when we have 100ms latency for any button press (client side computation), yeah we hate it. it doesn't matter what the fuck benefits you think are there. you could get a clue how retarded your shit is by the complexity of your stupid image for doing literally nothing aside from simple GUIs
▶ No.951732>>951764 >>951831
>>951724
GUIs are not simple. GUIs are the single biggest draconian cluster fuckfest that ever befell programming. The entire reason so much effort is put into HTML, CSS, and JS is because of all the awful, odious, lumbering, twisted, accursed ways in the world to do GUI this one is the least painful.
▶ No.951764>>951767
>>951732
>The entire reason so much effort is put into HTML, CSS, and JS is because of all the awful, odious, lumbering, twisted, accursed ways in the world to do GUI this one is the least painful.
No. All these technologies are absolute shit, predicated upon the fact that web browsers consume strings of text served by http.
▶ No.951767>>951772
>>951764
>No. All these technologies are absolute shit.
I never said they weren't I said they were less shit than everything else. Qt? Gtk? Windows? .NET? They're shit. They're ALL SHIT. Every last fucking one of them. HTML/CSS/JS is just the least shit one that works across all the shit platforms because it's in a shit browser.
▶ No.951772>>951775
>>951767
You said GUIs. If you're going to add the stipulation of browsers, then HTML wins by default. Other than that, almost every platform you mentioned, and others such as JavaFX, are superior in every way.
▶ No.951775
>>951772
This.
Still have to laugh at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4CwVN9RRbE
>comparing an abused document format to a GUI toolkit
>ever
>not comparing QT with GTK3 or any other GUI toolkit
>pretending it makes sense
▶ No.951831
>>951732
>this one is the least painful
No. Even a simple GUI builder would beat what the web uses.
▶ No.951838
stop trying to bring your sluggish, platform-inconsistent garbage to the desktop through Jewlectron and pushing browser to use 3 times as much resources as my entire OS + other running programs
half of those "technologies" are unrealizable attempts of turning turd that is the web stack fundamentally is into a diamond like it's been done for the last decade and the new and emerging standards are more or less jut used for spying on the user anyway, making things even more horrid
hypertext documents should be nothing but simple HTML with barebones responsive CSS sprinkled on top, not the monstrosities oriented at consumer whores. even JS should be optional (i forget the term, but some few years ago, really not so long ago, in webdev world there used to be a principle of responsibility from a webdev of absolutely making site would work just fine even when JS is was not available and serving a simple yet fully functional site instead that would load and work without delay).
kys "developers". this is insanity.
▶ No.951866>>952393
My only problem with vanilla js is that some of the most common methods have such fucking long names. I hate fucking typing "document.getElemensByClassName[0]" 700 times for every little thing I make.
▶ No.951867>>952280
>>950925
>a lot of people hate what they don't understand
On the flip side, many people develop an irrational affinity for things they've invested considerable time or money into.
▶ No.952280
>>951867
People also like things that make their life a lot easier
▶ No.952393
>>951866
Shortcuts and atocompletion
▶ No.952404
>>949656 (OP)
If you know Angular and have a choice in this matter, go with Vue. It's very similar but much more lightweight, simpler, better tooled, easier to understand, and has better community while doing the same thing. Google fucked up hard with Angular2 (deved it for a living for a while, hated it so much) and React is way too different and I don't like mashing HTML inside JS, it gets very confusing because you lack simple basic HTML scaffold that you can slowly augment here and there with reusable JS like you do in Angular/Vue.
▶ No.952425
>> i want Front End for bloated piece of shit
what the fuck is wrong with you
▶ No.957117
>>949656 (OP)
The best JavaShit framework is called BUY A GUN AND SHOOT YOURSELF.