[–]▶ No.929001>>929006 >>949538 >>956717 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]
Devuan 2.0 ASCII has now caught up with Debian 9 Stretch in release, and is now only behind in the -updates repository
https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/ascii-stable-announce-060818
▶ No.929002
# Devuan 2.0 ASCII Release Notes
## Index
- Introduction
- Getting Devuan 2.0 ASCII
- Upgrading to Devuan 2.0 ASCII
- Devuan Package Repositories
- Change of "Origin" in Release and InRelease files
- Non-free firmware
- About eudev
- Session management and policykit backends
- Starting X from a terminal
- Devuan package information pages
- Reporting bugs
### Introduction
This document includes technical notes relevant to Devuan 2.0 ASCII.
More information and support on specific issues can be obtained by:
- subscribing to the DNG mailing list:
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
- visiting the Devuan user forum:
https://dev1galaxy.org
- shouting (but not too loud) on one of the Devuan IRC channels:
#devuan (freenode) - general discussion about Devuan
#devuan-arm (freenode) - specific support for ARM
### Getting Devuan 2.0 ASCII
Devuan 2.0 ASCII is available for i386, amd64, armel, armhf and arm64
platforms. Installers, live CDs, and images for virtual machines and
ARM SOCs can be downloaded at:
http://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/
Please consider using one of the many mirrors, listed at:
https://devuan.org/get-devuan
Detailed instructions on how to use each image are available in the
corresponding 'README.txt' file. The SHA256SUMS of each set of images
is signed by the developer in charge of the build. The fingerprints of
GPG keys of all Devuan developers are listed at:
https://devuan.org/os/team
In order to check that the images you downloaded are genuine and not
corrupted, you should:
- download the image(s)
- download the corresponding SHA256SUMS and SHA256SUMS.asc files
in the same folder
- verify the checksums running:
$ sha256sum -c SHA256SUMS
(it could complain about missing files, but should show an "OK"
close to the images you have actually downloaded)
- verify the signature running:
$ gpg --no-default-keyring --keyring ./devuan-devs.gpg --verify SHA256SUMS.asc
(we assume that you have put the GPG keys in the keyring named
"devuan-devs.gpg". YMMV)
The 'devuan-devs.gpg' keyring is provided only for convenience. The
most correct procedure to verify that the signatures are authentic is
by downloading the relevant public keys from a trusted keyserver,
double-check that the fingerprint of the key matches that of the
developer reported on https://devuan.org/os/team and then use that key
for verification.
## Upgrading to Devuan 2.0 ASCII
Direct and easy upgrade paths from Devuan Jessie, Debian Jessie, and
Debian Stretch to Devuan 2.0 ASCII are available.
Upgrade from Devuan Jessie:
https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/upgrade-to-ascii
Migrate from Debian Jessie or Stretch:
https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/migrate-to-ascii
The following will be enough to upgrade if you are already using
Devuan ASCII Beta or Devuan ASCII RC:
apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
▶ No.929003
### Devuan Package Repositories
Thanks to the support of many volunteers and donors, Devuan has
recently put in place a network of package repository mirrors. The
mirror network is accessible using the FQDN "deb.devuan.org" or
"{CC}.deb.devuan.org", where {CC} is a two-letter ISO 3166-1 country
code, such as "us" for the USA, "fr" for France, "mx" for Mexico, "nl"
for the Netherlands, and so on.
Starting from Devuan 2.0 ASCII, users should use exclusively
"deb.devuan.org" or ""{CC}.deb.devuan.org" in their 'sources.list'
file, e.g.:
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii main
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-security main
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-updates main
deb http://deb.devuan.org/devuan ascii-proposed main
Along with the above addresses, the repositories are also accessible
using the Tor network, by using our hidden service address:
deb tor+http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged ascii main
deb tor+http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged ascii-security main
deb tor+http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/merged ascii-updates main
deb tor+http://devuanfwojg73k6r.onion/devuan ascii-proposed main
All the mirrors contain the full Devuan package repository (all the
Devuan releases and all the suites). They are synced every 30 minutes
from the main Devuan package repository ("pkgmaster.devuan.org"), and
are continuously checked for sanity, integrity, and consistency. The
package repository network is currently accessed through a DNS
Round-Robin, but this will soon be changed into a series of
region-based redirects to improve bandwidth usage.
The updated list of mirrors belonging to the network is available at:
http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/mirror_list.txt
Users could also opt for directly accessing one of the mirrors in that
list using the corresponding BaseURL.
IMPORTANT NOTE: The package mirrors at "deb.devuan.org" are signed
with the following GPG key:
pub rsa4096 2017-09-04 [SC] [expires: 2022-09-03]
E032601B7CA10BC3EA53FA81BB23C00C61FC752C
uid [ unknown] Devuan Repository (Amprolla3 on Nemesis
<repository@devuan.org>)
sub rsa4096 2017-09-04 [E] [expires: 2022-09-03]
The key is included in the package "devuan-keyring". In order to use
deb.devuan.org, you must have `devuan-keyring_2017.10.03` or higher.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Devuan has planned to eventually discontinue the
original set of Devuan mirrors available at auto.mirror.devuan.org and
{CC}.mirror.devuan.org. As a consequence, users are strongly
encouraged to use the new set of mirrors at "deb.devuan.org" and
"{CC}.deb.devuan.org".
### Change of "Origin" in Release and InRelease files
Starting from May 31st 2018 the "Origin:" field of Release and
InRelease files served by deb.devuan.org is correctly set to
"Devuan". This solves several minor issues with `lsb` reporting
incorrect information about the OS and release. The change
should be seamless for Devuan Jessie and Devuan ASCII users.
▶ No.929004
### Non-free firmware
All Devuan 2.0 ASCII install media make non-free firmware packages
available at install time. In the majority of the cases, these
packages are needed (and will be installed) only if your wifi adapter
requires them. It is possible to avoid the automatic installation and
loading of needed non-free firmware by choosing the "Expert install"
option in the installation menu.
Devuan 2.0 ASCII desktop-live and minimal-live images come with
non-free firmware packages pre-installed. You have the option of
removing those non-free firmware packages from the desktop-live and
minimal-live after boot, using the "remove_firmware.sh" script
available under /root.
### About eudev
Following the inclusion of udev (a daemon in charge of device
management) in the systemd code tree, Devuan 2.0 ASCII provides the
alternative "eudev" package. The transition from udev to eudev is
managed through transitional packages, and should be automatic and
seamless.
### Session management and policykit backends
Devuan 2.0 ASCII provides a choice of 5 Desktop Environments at
install time (XFCE, Cinnamon, KDE, LXQT, MATE), while many other
window managers are available from the repositories.
These days, Desktop Environments rely on a session management system
to allow the user to perform several typical tasks without requiring
administrator privileges, including suspending/rebooting/shutting down
the system, mounting external devices, configuring networking, and so
on.
Two of such session management systems are available in Devuan 2.0
ASCII, namely:
- consolekit
- elogind
These session managers are mutually exclusive, only one of them can be
installed and active at a time to avoid unwanted interference. In
order to grant processes in the unprivileged user session access to
select privileged operations, the installed session manager is
connected to the policykit-1 framework by a set of matching back-end
libraries.
Each of the 5 DEs available in Devuan comes with a recommended default
combination of login manager (either slim or lightdm) and session
management system:
- XFCE: slim + consolekit
- Cinnamon: lightdm + elogind
- KDE: lightdm + elogind
- LXQT: lightdm + elogind
- MATE: slim + consolekit
In order for session management to work correctly, the login manager
(aka display manager, DM) has to register the user session with the
installed session manager (i.e. either consolekit or elogind), which
in turn has to cooperate with the relevant components of the desktop
environment. The default pairings listed above are known to work well
and do not require user intervention, but other combinations are
possible.
### Starting X from a console (TTY)
In Devuan 2.0 ASCII, the X server no longer requires to be run with
root privileges. As a consequence, there are some additional
requirements to be met when launching X directly from a TTY (i.e.,
through 'xinit' or 'startx'), especially on systems upgraded from
Devuan Jessie.
In Devuan 2.0 ASCII it is sufficient to install 'elogind' and
'libpam-elogind', and then use either 'startx' or 'xinit' as usual
from a regular user account. In this case, the Xorg log file will be
available under '~/.local/share/xorg/'.
The system still needs to support Kernel Mode Setting (KMS).
Therefore, this solution may not work in some virtualization
environments (e.g. virtualbox) or if the kernel has no driver that
supports your graphic card.
Alternatively, it is still possible to run X with setuid root. In this
case, you need to install `xserver-xorg-legacy` and ensure that the
file '/etc/X11/Xwrapper.config' contains the (uncommented) line:
needs_root_rights=yes
▶ No.929005
### Devuan package information pages
Devuan has recently set up a simple service to display information
about all the packages available in Devuan. The service can be
accessed at:
https://pkginfo.devuan.org
It is possible to search for package names matching a set of keywords,
and to visualise the description, dependencies, suggestions and
recommendations of each package. Please report any issues with this
new service and/or get in touch if you have suggestions about how it
can be improved.
### Reporting bugs
No piece of software is perfect. And acknowledging this fact is the
first step towards improving our software base.
Devuan strongly believes in the cooperation of the community to find,
report, and solve issues. If you think you have found a bug in a
Devuan package, please report it to:
https://bugs.devuan.org
The procedure to report bugs is quite simple: just install and run
`reportbug`, a tool that will help you compiling the bug report and
including any relevant information for the maintainers.
`reportbug` assumes than you have a properly configured Mail User
Agent that can send emails (and that it knows about). If this is not
the case, you can still prepare your bug report with `reportbug`, save
it (by default reportbug will save the report under /tmp), and then
use it as a template for an email to submit@bugs.devuan.org.
(NOTE: Devuan does not provide an open SMTP relay for `reportbug`
yet. If you don't know what this is about, you can safely ignore this
information).
When the bug report is processed, you will receive an email
confirmation indicating the number associated to the report.
Here you can check the status of your report:
https://bugs.devuan.org/db/ix/full.html
Before reporting a bug, you might probably want to check whether the
very same problem has been already experienced and reported by other
users, e.g. by checking the list of packages with known bugs:
http://bugs.devuan.org/db/ix/packages.html
`reportbug` is a tool made by Debian for Debian, over a timespan of
about 25 years. This means that it is sometimes difficult to adapt it
to a new setup. We are currently working to improve the integration of
reportbug with the Devuan infrastructure, and to improve the
management, triaging, and reporting of bugs. Please bear with us ;^)
▶ No.929006>>929012 >>929015 >>930049 >>957204 >>959228
>>929001 (OP)
This looks like a great distro! I just wish it had a better init system like systemd. basic shit does not work without it.
▶ No.929012>>929013
>>929006
I'd say that basic shit becomes needlessly complex with systemd.
▶ No.929013
>>929012
At least it works. Unlike shit without systemd.
▶ No.929015>>929017
>>929006
What's the "basic shit" that systemd makes work?
▶ No.929017>>929025 >>929056 >>933116
▶ No.929025>>929038
>>929017
Can you pick three things from that list and tell me why I need them?
▶ No.929038>>929048
>>929025
Sure, but you will probably come back with:
>hurr durr you could do it manually in assembly on a C64 so u don't really need it
:^}
▶ No.929048>>929062
>>929038
Or you could just provide them instead of assuming shit. But, you can't.
▶ No.929056>>929062
>>929017
>Easily writable, extensible and parseable service files, suitable for manipulation with enterprise management tools
If you learn all the targets. You need to know less (sh scripting) for sysv.
>our init system replacing all the coreutils is a good thing
>Automount handling
>Encrypted hard disk handling (LUKS)
>Network Loopback device handling
I suggest you read all the reasons to not use systemd before posting your biased shit.
▶ No.929062>>929078
>>929048
>Just write a shell script with shitty error handling and poor integration
>>929056
>I suggest you read all the reasons to not use systemd
MUH BLOAT, MUH REDHAT
look faggots some of us like our systems to just work instead of writting shitty shell scripts for every trivial thing
▶ No.929078>>929079 >>929080 >>929083 >>929919
>>929062
>look faggots some of us like our systems to just work instead of writting shitty shell scripts for every trivial thing
That's fine, no one is forcing you to stop using it, but there does seem to be a push to force people into using it.
Some of us think writing a couple extra scripts and not using the init system for EVERYTHING is a small price to pay. A lot in that list is available, not part of the init, but as modules. The unix phylosophy is do one thing, and do it well. KISS, if you spend time developing and using your install for more than gaming, browsing porn and as a reason to argue online then you probably wont understand anything I just typed. There's a place for systemd and a place for other simpler, better designed init systems, and there are people who prefer either.
I installed arch with openrc and it was easy, didn't have to write anything, and had zero issues until they went full support for systemd.
▶ No.929079
>>929078
>if you spend
*if you don't spend
▶ No.929080>>929082 >>929295
>>929078
>but there does seem to be a push to force people into using it.
Yes anon because free software maintainers adding a systemd requirement to their open source software that is publicly available for free is forcing you.
▶ No.929082>>929084 >>930058
>>929080
>Yes anon because free software maintainers adding a systemd requirement to their open source software that is publicly available for free is forcing you.
I didn't say that. Why are you arguing in bad faith?
▶ No.929083>>929088
>>929078
>it was easy, didn't have to write anything,
Yes anon this is because you are a high school student who does not actually use his machine for anything that requires non trivial functionality.
▶ No.929084>>929088
>>929082
What the fuck could you possibly mean by "forcing people into using it" other than that.
▶ No.929088>>929090
>>929083
>nigger reading comprehension level
To install it, nothing needed to be written. Which isn't always the case, like with gentoo or arch install. You wouldn't know this being a retarded nigger.
>>929084
There are lots of ways it's done, like here, making "reeee systemd is better" threads on various forums and boards and trying to force a consensus. It's fine if you want to believe this, I even agree, it's better that retards like you use linux with systemd than windows10.
▶ No.929090>>929093 >>929461
>>929088
>A system without any services that need to be initialized does not need a fancy init system
WELL SHIT ANON! I was reading that charitably the first time. I did not realize you meant it that retardly!
>There are lots of ways it's done, like here
Right so you did mean that voluntarily using open source software is force. Nice!
▶ No.929093>>929094
>>929090
Your argument:
>systemd "just works"
no it doesn't, it fucks up plenty
>"you need to write scripts"
this is where you outed yourself nigger
>WELL SHIT ANON! I was reading that charitably the first time. I did not realize you meant it that retardly!
This is where you outed yourself again, you are on the beginner stage of dunning krueger, you're misinterpreting my words, not out of malice but out of ignorance. I understand where you're coming from now. If you read what other anons said earlier, or even the post pro systemd, you'd know I'm not talking about services. I guess you only know systemd and refuse to learn how other init systems work so it's not suprising.
▶ No.929094>>929103
>>929093
>no it doesn't, it fucks up plenty
LOL sure thing bud
>this is where you outed yourself nigger
Call me a nigger again, show off your high IQ
>you are on the beginner stage of dunning krueger
Yes anon spouting off shitty memes about system dick being bad and muh bloat is truly the peak of enlightenment
▶ No.929103>>929107 >>931291
>>929094
I guess you argument is more
>no u
>dunning krueger is a meme
it's not
>bloat
nigger, you're the only one arguing about bloat, your strawmanning, search for the word bloat, you're the only one.
This thread is a good example of the kind of anons who think systemd is great. Good job
▶ No.929107
>>929103
>it's not
I see that went over you're head kiddo
▶ No.929127
So I judt really use my pc for web browsing and school stuff (not tech related, but latex is still useful)
Would someone like me benefit from a distro without systemd?
▶ No.929133>>929196
Is this the OS people that do illegal stuff(illegal enough to get on alphabet agencies' radar) online use? The install base(for people to find bugs) and manpower(found bugs fixed quickly) are less than Debian. You can use Sysvinit instead on systemdick on Debian.
▶ No.929196>>929260
>>929133
>You can use Sysvinit instead on systemdick on Debian.
You also cuck yourself out of several packages because the Debian faggots allow things to hard depend on systemd and pulse, while Devuan patches those dependencies out. That's why it takes so long to catch up with Debian.
▶ No.929245>>929265 >>929292 >>930790 >>930902 >>948991
>using devuan when void exists
why.
▶ No.929260>>929320
>>929196
Why did they take out ian in the name? If anything take out deb.
▶ No.929265
>>929245
Because I'm uncertain about void while I know debian/devuan will be stable, I don't know if void gets package breakage from updates whereas I know debian/devuan don't, and I'm also very familiar with APT
▶ No.929292
>>929245
Because void is deader than shit.
▶ No.929295>>929333 >>929335
>>929080
>Yes anon because free software maintainers adding a systemd requirement to their open source software that is publicly available for free is forcing you.
You said, it not me- kike.
▶ No.929320
>>929260
Because deb is still alive
▶ No.929333>>929335
>>929295
Open source but not libre.
▶ No.929335
>>929333
>>929295
I literally said "free software" in the gnutard sense.
▶ No.929461>>929471
>>929090
WTF I hate SystemD now.
▶ No.929478>>929483 >>929487 >>930258
HOW DARE SOMEONE DEVOTE TIME TO FORKING DEBIAN TO NOT USE SYSTEMD
HOW DARE YOU NOT WANT TO USE SYSTEMD
It's bait at this point.
I say good job Devuan. They have successfully continued >it just werks
Except for AMDGPU in current year, but that's easy to fix.
▶ No.929483
>>929478
Hey man if you want to use an inferior system thats fine by me.
▶ No.929487>>929546
>>929478
You can install the mesa/xorg stuff from backports and it'll be version 17, and apt is smart enough to update packages you install from backports with newer backports.
▶ No.929546>>929866
>>929487
You can also use oblaf ppa and newer kernels.
You could also compile a kernel using all available AMDGPU patches.
▶ No.929866>>930026
>>929546
Isn't the latest kernel enough tho?
True, I still have some minor issues with my RX560, but seems to be okay lately...
▶ No.929915>>929926
>Visit OP link
>Scroll down
>Devuan is a registered trademark of the Dyne.org foundation
>Click Dyne.org
>Check uMatrix
Nice distro faggots
▶ No.929919
>>929078
>heart failure
hello fellow /cow/boy
▶ No.929926>>929967
>>929915
>the site of the foundation that supports the distro has js
>this somehow is proof that the distro is bad
try harder systemd shill
▶ No.929967>>930035
>>929926
>Don't like systemd goy? Come back to google amazon botnet!
▶ No.930026
>>929866
Latest devuan kernel is 4.9, no idea if that's good enough because I don't use AMD.
If you install from backports the latest is 4.16.
▶ No.930035
>>929967
>JUST DOWNLOAD SYSTEMD YOU FUCKING GOY
▶ No.930049>>930052
>>929006
> I just wish it had a better init system like systemd
kek
▶ No.930058
>>929082
>in bad faith?
>believing anything on 8ch
are.. are you a woman friend?
▶ No.930116>>930129 >>930134 >>933117 >>948991
Devuan here, you can remove pulseaudio and install apulse and have a completely Poettering-free system. It's great.
▶ No.930129>>930255
>>930116
But pulseaudio just works
▶ No.930134>>930141 >>930255
>>930116
What DE/Derivative?
▶ No.930141>>930143
▶ No.930143>>930145
▶ No.930145
>>930143
I meant no germans
▶ No.930255>>930566
▶ No.930258>>930556 >>930701
>>929478
Shit, what's wrong with AMDGPU?
▶ No.930556
>>930258
nothing, using it now
▶ No.930701>>930893
>>930258
I could never get AMDGPU to work on RX 4** gpus until I compiled a 4.16 kernel with all the patches along with installing the relevant mesa shit.
Rebooting to a 4.9 kernel with modsetting enabled always resulted in a black screen with the GPU fan running 100%
But of course, vbox doesn't work on newer kernels, so I can't do any testing if I want to use AMDGPU.
▶ No.930790
>>929245
Because it seems fine but I don't know what will happen now that the lead developer got kidnapped by glow in the darks. I'm messing with void on a VM and if the guy being turned into a zombie doesn't matter too much I might switch.
▶ No.930893>>931213
>>930701
Strange, I'm using a 580 on Gentoo sine 4.14 at least.
▶ No.930902>>931316
>>929245
Devuan's a real OS and Void's a hobby project by a person who's now missing.
▶ No.931213>>959617
>>930893
>Gentoo
Is not Debian or Devuan, and probably has the needed patches applied.
▶ No.931291>>931309
>>929103
nigger, its a long ass time I use gnoooslashlinuxxx and I have to say that handling the network management to the systemd's nm is dumb as fuck! Init would just handle it to whatever nm you have installed in your machine and it would prevent the endless loop bug when systemd is unable to autoset the network job!
That is just one of many examples on why systemd sucks. It is just a non inteligent way of managing services...
Btw I use systemd because it doesn't affect me as much. I just encountered the above problem once. But it is an old ass issue that is still there and POTHEAD doesn't care.
▶ No.931309
>>931291
Handling everything on loonix is dumb as fuck because nothing comes with a decent manual and you have to learn everything by first learning it even exists then fiddling with it.
▶ No.931316
>>930902
>Void
there was a subtle warning
▶ No.933116>>933138 >>933161
>>929017
>Reliable termination of user sessions before shutdown
Is Lennart just being ironic? You always see some poor schmuck that can't shut his system down due to systemd sheanigans
▶ No.933117
>>930116
Refracta (a Devuan derivative) comes Poettering-free out of the box for those that don't want to deal with configuring it themselves
▶ No.933138>>933853
>>933116
Yes anon turns out shutting down many applications cleanly is difficult and shitty systems just kill everything instead.
▶ No.933161
>>933116
see https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/8155
plus as a poor schmuck non of the systemd distros can shut down my Vostro 5471 except Dell tweaked Ubuntu 16.04
at this point OpenRC might be better choice for layman because it just werks more than systemd
▶ No.933162
Cinnamon on Devuan actually works better than I expected tbh.
▶ No.933845
I'm testing Devuan on my machine and everything just werks, except for the shit ass broadcom wlan that never does.
▶ No.933853>>933989 >>955643
>>933138
Like Void.
Here's Void's shutdown script:
msg "Sending TERM signal to processes..."
pkill --inverse -s0,1 -TERM
sleep 1
msg "Sending KILL signal to processes..."
pkill --inverse -s0,1 -KILL
▶ No.933989
▶ No.936276
▶ No.943062
I put this off for a while, still need to do it for GLL
▶ No.943070
I'm not sure I really understand the point of this. You can already use other inits on Debian, and you can use a preseed to do it during install automatically (that's what I do anyway).
>Devuan patches programs so they work without systemd
Those are shitty programs anyway.
▶ No.945611>>945618 >>945629 >>945811
I've switched to devuan with i3 from linux(gnu/linux) mint, which was disabling my firewall every single bootup. I don't know what was the cause, but I suspect (((systemd))). Now firewall works, but everything else doesn't and packages are outdated. Is gentoo a better distribution without systemd than devuan? The only thing that scares me about gentoo is that devs call it "linux", not GNU/Linux.
▶ No.945618>>946243
>>945611
Hyperbola GNU/Linux
Arch snapshot
OpenRC init (systemd fully removed)
LibreSSL (soon)
▶ No.945629>>945642 >>945808
>>945611
>The only thing that scares me about gentoo is that devs call it "linux", not GNU/Linux.
You admit to being a mint nigger, so you're most likely fresh off the windows teet, should you really be riding a high horse? You also show a lack of awareness of what Gentoo is.
>(((systemd)))
Don't meme until you're genuinely knowledgeable you contemptible newfag, you pickup a position you know nothing about and display it brashly in an attempt to fit in, people like you muddy anything you touch, and contribute to intellectual rot.
▶ No.945642>>945849
>>945629
That's contradictory. If your desire is for intellectual excellence, then don't shit up the place with memes. If you shit up the place with memes, you cannot have intellectual excellence.
▶ No.945808
>>945629
Mint was my first distro and I just got used to it. That was several years ago. But now I know what free software and GNU are and I can't stand mint devs using the term open source and adding nonfree software to the package manager.
Making some scripts isn't a big deal for me. Maybe I'll just install gentoo just to make you upset. Also Isn't riding a high horse a great way to learn something new?
▶ No.945811
>>945611
Switch repositories to testing
▶ No.945849
>>945642
>no fun allowed
Intelligence is preferable to intellectualism.
▶ No.946037>>946047
Do I need the desktop-live image or the installer-iso image?
▶ No.946047>>946050 >>946240
>>946037
>desktop-live if you want to try and (eventually) install
>installer-iso if you want to install
▶ No.946050
>>946047
>tfw Devuan is systemd-free
I like this feeling.
▶ No.946060>>946064 >>947952
Hmm. The apparent lack of speed compared to Debian seems off-putting to me lads. Will I get rekt with a remote zero days because Devuan takes an average lag of one year?
▶ No.946064
>>946060
Just have to be careful, I suppose. Alternatively find a bunch of anons running Devuan and audit it against Debian.
▶ No.946240>>946242
>>946047
Can you install from desktop-live?
▶ No.946242
>>946240
>This is Devuan 2.0 ASCII desktop-live edition. It contains the same package
selection as the default desktop in the regular installer isos, with the
addition of a few packages for the live system, wireless firmware, a
live-cd installer and remastering tool to make your own live-CD/DVD image.
▶ No.946243
>>945618
I hope the Brazilians know what they are doing.
▶ No.947931>>948600
Anyone using this or is it a meme?
▶ No.947952>>948791
>>946060
What? Devuan is mostly caught up now and Devuan Jessie recieved security updates just like Debian does.
▶ No.948600>>948605 >>948791
>>947931
I've been using it for more than a year now.
Not much different user-wise compared to Debian at all, but I seeing the size of this thread. You might not want to take my word, but eh. I'd choose Devuan over Debian. For the simple fact that I prefer sysinit.
Just try it out, desu. Make judgments yourself instead of listening to dorks on the internet.
▶ No.948605
>>948600
This. It's pretty good, and it's nice to have the option for a modern system that isn't infected with systemdicks.
▶ No.948640
Huh, this is actually kinda nice. Nevermind the clutter, I've made some nonstandard changes.
▶ No.948791
>>948600
If it's >>947952 more or less caught up, I'll make it my daily driver.
▶ No.948816>>948823 >>948825 >>948903
>install devuan
>Skip wifi setup part on install
>No utilities to be able to set up wifi
>No way to connect to wifi manually
>Can't even use sudo
Why would they pack devuan with all kinds of programs like gimp and libreoffice but NOT include anything besides a basic bash console? I'm basically locked out of wifi connectivity options
▶ No.948823>>948991
▶ No.948825
>>948816
If they included a bunch of shit for stuff you didn't indicate you wanted at install time, you and /g/ would be bitching about muh bloat.
Put the damn installation media back in the drive, run the appropriate apt gets, and shut the fuck up.
▶ No.948900>>949053
>installing an out of date fork distro because of systemd autism
I'd rather have systemd than go off on some distro hopping adventure that will ultimately be a worse experience.
▶ No.948991>>949002 >>949077
>>930116
That goes for Slackware too. Although I'd strongly prefer it being pulseaudio-free from the start. Does BlueZ have proper ALSA support yet?
>>929245
>using void when you can go Linux From Scratch
>>948823
>wifi
Just get a proper CAT-5e or CAT-6 cable. Blue Jeans Cable sells quality ones. With wireless, even when you get a stable signal, you can get shit speeds due to poor wireless signal strength.
▶ No.949002>>949043
>>948991
>Blue Jeans Cable sells quality ones.
Just to be clear, this isn't me shilling a company so they can get that amazing cable-purchasing business. When you normally buy cables, there is basically no fucking standards agency to check whether the cable you buy actually has the rated specs of the cable you are purchasing it as (Buy CAT-6, get a cable that fails CAT-5 performance, etc.). While there are quality cable manufacturers for corporate bulk purchases, consumer-grade cables (monster cable, chinese shit, whatever) are by and large all fucking junk and perform horribly under spec (the main question is how much they'll suck, not if they'll suck - that's a foregone conclusion).
The only thing blue jeans cable does is resell those corporate standards-adhering quality ethernet cables, test them to make sure they are up to spec, and send you the cable + their test report. If anyone else knows places that sell proper ethernet cable for consumers, I really want to know.
▶ No.949043>>949075
>>949002
>When you normally buy cables, there is basically no fucking standards agency to check whether the cable you buy actually has the rated specs of the cable you are purchasing it
There is, but it's not cheap.
▶ No.949053
>>948900
I hate systemd so much. It's a resource hog and a buggy piece of shit.
▶ No.949075>>949079
>>949043
Yeah, if you're spending over $1000 to check if you have a good $20 cable (and there are most likely no refunds on the cable), then you're probably not going to have a good time.
▶ No.949077>>949085
>>948991
>Just get a proper CAT-5e or CAT-6 cable. Blue Jeans Cable sells quality ones. With wireless, even when you get a stable signal, you can get shit speeds due to poor wireless signal strength.
nigger I'm already on wireless everything except the phone
▶ No.949079>>949085
>>949075
You could always go to a telecommunications workshop and ask if you could borrow one for 5 minutes and run your tests.
▶ No.949085>>949091
>>949077
Go to https://fast.com/ to see if you're getting the bandwidth speed you paid for. Use a cellphone's wireless and retest the result in different locations to see if signal proximity (and walls and shit) are negatively impacting your speeds.
I'm recommending fast over other speedtest sites because fast.com uses Netflix servers and if ISPs practice throttling they will let you get max speed from bandwidth test sites for those false positives but throttle you for high bandwidth shit like netflix. Since fast.com uses netflix servers for its bandwidth tests, that kind of stunt doesn't work so well.
>>949079
>telecommunications workshop
How do you find those?
▶ No.949091>>949094
>>949085
You follow their van after they finish their job.
They're usually in the same building as their offices.
▶ No.949094
>>949091
Sorry but waiting for telecoms to finish and tailing their vans once they're done is not quite my thing. In the first place, it's been ages since I've seen a telecom van. Eh, guess I'll just try websearches and shit, although in this case I'm pretty sure you can tell I already bought a rated cable from the aforementioned company. I'm just curious to check out a telecom workshop.
▶ No.949538>>949596 >>951012
>>929001 (OP)
>now only behind in the -updates repository
Is it caught up yet?
▶ No.949596
>>949538
Devuan ASCII is now caught up to Debian Stretch.
▶ No.951012
▶ No.951014>>951646
▶ No.951646>>951675
>>951014
>Is tech a hivemind?
No, you fucking moron.
But it is a distro, at least.
▶ No.951675
>>951646
Pretty good distro btw
been using it for 3 months or more
▶ No.954546>>954645 >>954711 >>955545
Are any of the Devuan derivs good?
▶ No.954645
>>954546
No idea, don't care.
Been using mainline since the first alphas were released and it's fine.
The only problem I've had is gphoto2 gvfs mounting through thunar.
▶ No.954711>>955545
>>954546
nah, there's no point in using them unless you become part of the OS developers
▶ No.955249>>955545 >>955577 >>955585
Is devuan still a nightmare like the jessie-based version was? I had to build deb's and eventually ragequit'd
▶ No.955545
>>954546
>>954711
It's about as close as you can get to Gentoo without installing Gentoo. So if that's something you're interested in I'd say go for it. I made the plunge to install it because I suspected the systemdicks cancer was eating all my memory. I was totally right. I ended up running ~3-10 GB on startup and idle to 100mb-3GB(max).
>>955249
Devuan is a bit of a nightmare in terms of general use. As far as installation of packages I haven't really had any issues. The main issue is when something breaks for seemingly no reason and you have to spend 5 hours getting it running again.
▶ No.955577
>>955249
>I had to build deb's
ASCII has dpkg for that.
▶ No.955585
>>955249
>I had to build deb's and eventually ragequit'd
Haha, trolled another one
▶ No.955643
>>933853
Reminds me of the Windows glory days of using "shutdown -f -s -t 0" so the damn thing actually shuts down.
▶ No.956367>>956376
Noob here, does Devuan have testing repos?, I'm assuming I'd just need to change stable to testing in /etc/apt/sources.list, but I can't find documentation on it anywhere, I don't know.
▶ No.956376>>956377
>>956367
You can change 'ascii' to 'beowulf' in etc/apt/sources.list
Don't do it unless you know what you are doing.
▶ No.956377>>956393
>>956376
I mean is it any different from using buster/testing in Debian?
▶ No.956393>>956468
>>956377
Couple of things in userland do not work comparing to Debian testing. But it depends both on your hardware, install configuration and your knowledge. I'm a lazy brainlet, so Devuan stable is really comfy for me after applying post-install fixes and tweeks.
▶ No.956468>>956496
>>956393
I'm also lazy, I normally wouldn't mind running stable, but after running Gentoo for a while (and removing it after realizing my toaster's CPU life is not worth it) most of my configs, scripts, and other autisms break on Debian/Devuan stable because of the old-as-fuck packages, there are also a few packages I use that are missing (e.g. newsboat, thought I haven't tested if my config works with newsbeuter), I guess I'll try fixing my shit to work on stable.
Another issue I have with Devuan specifically, is that flatpak doesn't work properly (thought it might just be the specific package I'm using in flatpak).
▶ No.956496>>956510
>>956468
>I'm using in flatpak
>using another redhat product after pulseaudio, systemd, network manager, or gnome
appimage is better
sndio and alsa are better
any init is better than systemd
connman and wicd are better
and any user interface is better than gnome
▶ No.956510>>956536 >>956544
>>956496
You're a fucking retard. Noone is inviting discussion about flatpak or it's alternatives, I'm using it for one program because it's the best method I have available at the moment, learn to contain your autism.
▶ No.956536>>956574
>>956510
Poettering please, nobody is falling for your jewish tricks.
▶ No.956544>>956574 >>956583
>>956510
>Noone is inviting discussion about flatpak
You did by posting that you use redhat shitware in a thread dedicated to an OS with the goal of eliminating a forced piece of redhat shitware.
90% of userland problems can be eliminated by purging redhat shitware from your PC.
Why does network manager need specially configured polkit files just to allow users to modify connections? Why is it so slow to respond to changes in network interfaces?
Why doesn't flatpak work?
Why does pulseaudio not save sound configs between sessions? Why have developers dropped alsa support from DE specific tray mixers?
Why can't systemd shutdown any of my computers in less than 10 minutes?
▶ No.956574
>>956536
I'm not even endorsing flatpak in any way, and and as far as I know poettering isn't a flatpak developer, otherwise I wouldn't be using it, I just need it for one program that happens to not be in Debian repos and I want to sandbox, if there was an appimage I would use it.
>>956544
>You did by posting that you use redhat shitware in a thread dedicated to an OS with the goal of eliminating a forced piece of redhat shitware.
No you fucking retard, It's an OS dedicated to eliminate systemd from Debian, and I only said I use redhat shitware, I'm not telling you or anyone that they should use redhat shitware or why they should use redhat shitware.
I don't use Network Manager.
I don't use Pulseaudio.
I don't use systemd.
Shut the fuck up.
Contain your autism.
▶ No.956583>>956663
>>956544
>Why does network manager need specially configured polkit files just to allow users to modify connections? Why is it so slow to respond to changes in network interfaces?
It doesn't. As long as your user is either in UNIX group wheel or network, he's able to modify them. It isn't slow, it's quite fast (switching from ethernet to WiFi is quite fast, ~2 seconds maximum).
>Why doesn't flatpak work?
Works good, though I agree, appimage is better.
>Why does pulseaudio not save sound configs between sessions? Why have developers dropped alsa support from DE specific tray mixers?
Why not? Alsa isn't very advanced. All it allows you to do is play from single/multiple streams. Pulseaudio+JACK (or newest redhat product, Pipewire) allows you to mix up lots of streams at once, for example to use it with a DAW such as LMMS, taking audio from your MIDI device, to a software synthesizer, and your DAW taking audio from the synthesizer to the piano roll. It's pure UNIX philosophy.
>Why can't systemd shutdown any of my computers in less than 10 minutes?
Because they're 20 years old or you're a retard. It boots up in maximum 20 seconds, and shutdowns in maximum 3 seconds on my end. systemd (at least on NixOS) is so much faster that SysVinit on Slackware. Slackware used to boot up for 3 minutes on my machine, and shutdown like 30 seconds.
Now, shut the fuck up and stop putting your anti-systemd autism everywhere. Instead of fragmenting Linux and making it not work for normies, requiring massive configuration and shell knowledge. let the corporations do their jobs (as long as it's FLOSS).
▶ No.956663
>>956583
>Because they're 20 years old or you're a retard
I see Lennart has entered the thread. Blaming your problems and failures on others again, huh?
▶ No.956688>>956698
bumping to trigger the systemd shill shitting up the wayland thread.
▶ No.956698>>956703
>>956688
Your forgot your smug loli.
▶ No.956715>>956729 >>956730 >>956731
Linux sucks now and it's all Lennart's fault. Maybe not his exactly, Linus himself basically handed off development of Linux to a consortium led by Intel, and he's a glownigger as far as I can tell too but maybe he's doing the best he can. Anyway the point is Linux was a prime target for industry and government takeover, and it happened quite neatly. We still have some alternatives but I view Devuan as a sort of path on my exit strategy from Linux for the freer OpenBSD pastures. From there I will probably build a balloon out of 9front and launch off into the atmosphere. Godspeed.
▶ No.956717
>get cheap chink orange bi zerro
>install armbian
>host plenty bots on it, various telegram, discord, based on node/python3
>get tt-rss, syncthing, leechbox setup, hooked it to 2TB hdd
>everything works :DDD
>after a month ignoring >>929001 (OP) thread in a month finally having urge to check
>finally go to devuan download site
>notice /devuan-cd/devuan_ascii/embedded/ has sunxi support
>mfw
next time this scdard for boot died, i'm definitiely going to get devuan. i have my regrets not opening this thread way sooner
▶ No.956724
Sort of a noob here, which programming language(s) do I need to know in order to eventually contribute to devuan?
▶ No.956729
>>956715
Yeah, OpenBSD is the best modern operating system I have used. Just needs features.
▶ No.956730>>957200
>>956715
> Linus himself basically handed off development of Linux to a consortium led by Intel
Well faggot maybe if you and everyone else that complained actually contributed anything it would not be like this. Until then expect big companies that actually make their living off this shit to be the ones contributing.
▶ No.956731
>>956715
>From there I will probably build a balloon out of 9front
It's a neat OS, for now (socjus is making inroads there, which always results in decreased code quality in the end). If you choose to participate in the community, however, be sure you follow the Code of Conduct. They have a bunch of "joke" CoCs on their website, but if you keep hitting refresh you get to the real one, which, IIRC, is based on the Contributor Covenant, and they DO enforce it in "project spaces." Of course if you're a trans* asexual demiromantic otherkin with headmates, that might be appealing to you.
▶ No.957036
So there's what, half a dozen systemd free distros now? Aren't they all painting a target on themselves as poettering (redhat (nsa)) tries to turn linux into win 10? Will devuan even exist in 5 years?
▶ No.957200
>>956730
Why "contribute" to an OS whose direction I have disliked for 15 years? I have better things to do than try to improve Linux when anybody who pays to be on the Linux Foundation can slip anything they like in there.
▶ No.957204>>957240 >>957918
>>929006
How did systemd entangle itself into Linux? I thought Linux would be for de-centralizing if that's the right word I'm looking for. It took me forever to finally find a distro without systemd but there's a few I'd like to try that have them, but I stay away because it's a huge web and I wouldn't be surprised if it can spy on you. Granted I have an intel CPU, but the less spyware the better.
▶ No.957240>>957918
>>957204
>How did systemd entangle itself into Linux?
There were 30 years of ancient dogshit at that level that everyone was miserably maintaining (ever read the code of things like mgetty or logind?) and Lennart and co volunteered to blow it all up and maintain the replacement. Maintainers were super happy about that and helped wedge it into distros.
It's great all that shitcode is dead. It's not so great that it's added some new shitcode. dbus for example had been rejected by systems guys as trash (and it is) for over a decade and now they're forced to ship it for a lot of systemd functionality to work.
▶ No.957918>>957920
>>957204
Don't listen to this faggot: >>957240
It was snuck in by the NSA through their proprietary outfit called Redhat.
▶ No.957920>>957929 >>958154
>>957918
>snuck in
Know how I know you don't know how software development in large projects works?
▶ No.957929>>957942
>>957920
Know how I know you're a system d shill?
▶ No.957942
>>957929
This kind of high quality discussion belongs to /g/.
▶ No.958147>>959541
Installing from the netinst. What window manager should I install?
▶ No.958154>>958161
>>957920
>you don't know how it works
Oh we do. You get a few CIAniggers in there and (((vote in))) your cancer while only bringing in more CIAniggers instead of actual talent. Next thing you know you have some faggot (((social media expert))) and (((UX/UI))) people suggesting that anyone that goes counter to the (((CoC))) should get booted off the project.
▶ No.958161>>958213 >>958218
>>958154
Meanwhile, everyone else failed to write any software. Devuan gave up on writing vdev and now just bundles eudev. Same with their other attempts to provide replacements for systemd components.
So there's this group that gets shit done and they're behind systemd, and this other group that bitches and cries about it while producing no software. Who should I trust?
▶ No.958213>>958236
>>958161
>Devuan gave up on writing vdev and now just bundles eudev.
Implying bundling eudev which is maintained by the Gentoo community is a bad thing. They aren't wasting effort when there is so much effort needed to remove systemd from almost every dependency in Debian. They're making good progress for a young distro
>So there's this group that gets shit done and they're behind systemd
topkek
You're very suspect here shilling for systemd and Debian everyday. You're glowing
▶ No.958218
>>958161
The latter if you are a grown man. At least they don't shove their cancerware down your throat without giving another choice.
SystemD shitted on the core principle of having software free choice and saw permanent division in linux development for purpose. The first branch will become linux for niggers with all the absolute nigger tier cancer that attract normalfags, posers, e-celebs, gaymers and litteral nigers. The second will become obscure underground thing for 'alienated autistic creeps'. Pick your poison. Pic somewhat related.
▶ No.958236>>958242
>>958213
>a million lines of code in a couple years
>replaced almost every core component of a Linux system
>undeniable improvements to boot times
>accepted by almost every distro
>not getting shit done
vs
>fail to complete a single programming project
>begging gentoo for their half-assed projects instead
>only a handful of commits since it forked from udev
>out of over 10,000 commits
>Lennart has more code in eudev than gentoo despite not having touched it in years
lol
▶ No.958242>>958272
>>958236
>a million lines of code in a couple years
Number of lines of code don't mean they're good or audited.
>replaced almost every core component of a Linux system
Almost like it's a cancer that doesn't follow the UNIX way. This is the main reason people complain about it. You can't be serious.
>undeniable improvements to boot times
A meme and no one cares about a few seconds even if it were true. Uptime is important. If you're booting often enough for a few seconds to matter you're doing something wrong.
>accepted by almost every distro
Again, almost like it is a cancer pushed by CIAniggers
>not getting shit done
Oh it's shit and it's getting done but this doesn't mean anyone has to like it or run it.
>fail to complete a single programming project
They're literally maintaining a distro and have almost got it on par with the distro they forked it from.
>begging gentoo for their half-assed projects instead
Last time I checked anyone can fork it without asking.
>only a handful of commits since it forked from udev
Almost like there was no reason to fork it other than the fact that an incompetent person gained control over it and forced systemd as a dependency. Again, the main problem everyone has with this cancer in the first place.
You still haven't answered our question faggot: Why do you care what people do in their free time? It's almost like you have an interest in making sure every distro requires systemd and are butthurt about the fact that people aren't accepting it into Gentoo and forked Debian so people that don't build from source don't have to run your caner.
▶ No.958272>>958277
>>958242
>Number of lines of code don't mean they're good
They were accepted by volunteer distro maintainers, large corporates, and overwhelming numbers of users. What metric are we going by here, imageboard votes from posters still learning javascript?
>Almost like it's a cancer that doesn't follow the UNIX way
Almost like it replaced all the horrible shit that predates Stevens' book that no one wanted to touch. A lot of that trash was abandoned before most of you were born. Go read the code of something like mgetty and tell me how superior it is. A lot of it is structured around handling faxes. When did you last receive a fax on Linux? Did you ever think, "I sure wish I could abuse a serial getty to detect and receive faxes instead of provide a login prompt"? Is that the UNIX way?
>faster boot
>a meme
so jelly
>If you're booting often enough for a few seconds to matter you're doing something wrong
Fast boot is very important on cloud servers as the speed determines how many hot spares you need to keep running (and pay for) and is also important for reliability with VRRP. Maybe it helps you set desktop wallpaper and run IRC faster too, dunno.
>They're literally maintaining a distro
Almost the entire thing is byte-for-byte Debian, they only modify like a dozen packages and include branding and malware. I maintain a modified stretch distro via reprepro with 223 modified packages for work, I'm literally doing more work than the entire Devuan project and this is just a side task for me. Shit's easy. The hard stuff would be making a udev replacement and they gave up before really getting anywhere.
>Last time I checked anyone can fork it without asking.
Which is good as it'd be embarrassing to have to ask Lennart for permission to use his code to avoid using Lennart's code. They're desperately clinging to stale poetteringware because they can't make shit of their own. They're posers.
>an incompetent person gained control over it
You mean the guy who wrote almost all of it? 3958 of those commits were authored by Lennart, dating back to 2006.
>Why do you care what people do in their free time?
I don't give a shit how you waste your worthless time, I care when you spread lies about other people's software. The whole "init debate" was this tidal wave of fake news from nodevs like yourself that polluted a technical discussion and caused massive damage to feels which has led to a lot of very productive people now having issues working together, and it's still going on with threads like this full of total bullshit about how Debian doesn't work without systemd.
▶ No.958358>>958403 >>958408
>so jelly
I'm not considering I get faster boot times with another init system. If you love your millions of lines of cancer so much why don't you just stfu and use it. I'll be sure to laugh at you when you come looking for support for your borken init system. If you worked for me I'd fire you for introducing something that is impossible to audit and gives root to user accounts with a number by default.
Daily reminder you can crash systemd as any user with this:
>NOTIFY_SOCKET=/run/systemd/notify systemd-notify ""
▶ No.958403>>958422
>>958358
>I'm not considering I get faster boot times with another init system
Prove it. There's no way without skipping steps and comparing apples to oranges. The integration of event-driven device management without forking makes it impossible for anything else doing the same thing in a traditional way to get the same performance.
>I'll be sure to laugh at you when you come looking for support for your borken init system.
I'm a programmer not a luser. I also did the systemd integration of our shit at work. Was super simple and replaced about 500 lines of code with 1 line as we dropped support for old-style UNIX init (still works without systemd if using a modern launcher like start-stop-daemon).
>If you worked for me
Implying you will ever be in control of an employee.
>introducing something that is impossible to audit
It's literally the only init that can be fully audited due to cgroups. Unless you're playing word games with what "audit" means. Everything else lets a misbehaving service silently reparent orphans to pid 1 and you're left having to guess what led to it.
>gives root to user accounts with a number
Garbage in, garbage out. Don't fuck with files you don't understand.
>Daily reminder
Daily reminder that you're stuck in the past.
▶ No.958408>>958416
>>958358
>implying systemd is any faster than any other sysvinit alternative
By the time systemdestruction's gigantic bloat is even loaded other modern init systems are already halfway through loading things.
▶ No.958416>>958605
>>958408
Except benchmarks show it consistently crushes openrc unless you cheat and "tune" openrc to do less.
▶ No.958422>>958433
>>958403
Go home Pottering, no one likes your child-fucking globalist ass here.
▶ No.958433
>>958422
>globalist
You can say Jew here, this isn't infowars.
▶ No.958605
>>958416
Well then those benchmarks are bad and the people who do them should feel bad because every GNU/Linux computer I use loads two times faster without systemdicks in it.
WEW SYSTEMD SHILLS HAVE NO SHAME
▶ No.959541
▶ No.959614
Stop responding to the systemd shill, retards.
▶ No.959617>>968636
>>931213
It werks on my machine.
▶ No.959803>>959812 >>959820
Nice, now all we need is Devuan/Mint crossbreed of some kind. Devuan is pretty bare bones with driver support.
Or just a de-infected Mint, but since Devuan has already done the de-pottering...
▶ No.959812>>959844
>>959803
I was going to do that once, then I realized I was just larping and no idea what I was doing.
▶ No.959820>>959821
>>959803
>Mint
Just nah. There's already some Devuan forks that come pre-configured with all the gui tools and such.
▶ No.959821
>>959820
Or shall I say distro's based on Devuan.
▶ No.959844
>>959812
Larping a distro into being has already been done, antix is a great example.
▶ No.968636
▶ No.975533>>975605
Wonder how the Devuan devs reacted to the breaking news.
▶ No.975605
>>975533
Checked. They seem very quiet. imho they want to buy some time. But ultimately there'll need to make a decision. I wish'em well, and hope they won't cucked out. The whole purpose of Devuan was to dodge the pozz.