/tech/ - Technology★

>how will technology keep up to make sure games stay fair?

Region locking shitskins and jews of the east.

It won't shock me if they create some virtual machine and hypervisor combo that the game only run in.

>>909886

That's how it already works

You cannot secure games. Trying to secure games is fundamentally impossible because users own the machine. Any sufficiently motivated user will get around whatever pitiful protections you put in place. Your anti cheating software does nothing. It is placebo.

The solution to all security problems is a network of trust. Don't play with people you don't trust. If you see security work and it doesn't involve a network of trust, it isn't security it's masturbation. Servers get cracked because they must respond to requests from any random ass HTTP client from anywhere on the planet; if they only had to respond to trusted people, they wouldn't get cracked even if they were exploitable.

>>909891

>network play only via ssl keys

>one of your trusted end nodes get compromised

>now server is compromised

it can never work

>>909881 (OP)

Machine learning based anticheat is the next thing being rolled out. I've worked closely with the developers of ML based anticheats in the last couple years. All of those were internal projects used exclusively by the company's own games.

>>909881 (OP)

Chineese are modyfying software they bought. Gamers want mod support but fail to see that cheats are the exact same thing.

>but they are in MY games

And you're in theirs, if you don't want to play with cheaters then don't play with cheaters, nobody is forcing you but devs. This problem was solved so long ago with dedicated servers and shared banlists.

>>909891

>Trying to secure games is fundamentally impossible because users own the machine.

>users own the machine.

Just wait for (((cloud))) gaming, Microsoft and Netflix are already working on it.

>>909943

>already

this was a meme a few years ago

servers where supposed to play the game and stream the image to you.

>>909891

It could also work by having the server do all computations too and synching them back too the client regularly. This doesn't prevent bots but at least teleportation, instant kills and other bullshit. The rest can't be checked by machine.

>>909943

The latency won't get low enough for this. Even in a century and then every player can just buy a super computer for the price four months would cost.

>>909881 (OP)

>What will anti cheating look like in the future?

like spyware and

communism

>v& for selling pubg cheats in China

>v& for selling fortnite cheats in USA

>pubg

PUBG is a crapgame, you can literally send the server messages saying you killed everyone in the game and the game ends with 100 kills. they probably fixed this but it will still forever have similar issues because it's a crapgame

wtf is this article even trying to say? how can you have a hardware cheat? the moment the game code slightly changes it wont work anymore and you'll have to buy new hardware

>That is... pretty fucking blatant. Dell is pretty much telling players to ignore Bluehole's terms of service and cheat away in order to win.

>muh TOS

>It's normalising behaviour that ruins the game for everyone else,

http://pwned.nl/

>and forces the developer and its anti-cheat partners to invest in combing the game for more cheaters rather than work on the game itself,

maybe if they were competent enough to solve basic problems like being able to teleport, OPK, etc, they wouldn't have to spend as much on botnet snake oil anticheat solutions

>an effort that must come with a significant cost.

we can solve this with communism goy

>>909891

you might want to define what you mean by "crack" before we assume you're retarded. most game cheating is just wallhack/aimbot, which is possible in every FPS due to how the game works. no "cracking" involved. PUBG on the other hand is a piece of shit where literally every malformed packet you send breaks the entire 100 player game in some absurd way

>>909951

that will never work in the slightest because you can't get the latency low enough for aiming/movement. also you can still aimbot. there are even color based aimbots that worked decent enough sometimes

>>909897

I never got into ML but I wonder how it's actually supposed to work. In every game I've seen it's just:

>friend falls off cliff

YOU TK'd your friend! BAN

>type name of game which has "night" in it,

RACIST! GRIEFER!11 BAN!

>you know where someone is based off deduction, go around corner and shoot him

CHEATER! BAN!!

(also even in some proper solution, the model of the game would be different than how the game actually works, so this situation still happens)

>>909965

in other words most cheating is solved by your game not being a crapgame (such as PUBG, Crysis, S.T.A.L.K.E.R, F.E.A.R, and then pretty much every pay2win game ever made)

>>909974

ML is a meme

There is no future in mmos that is why I am gonna make 3dvr games with a sole purpose being a simulator.

>>909979

make a vr tank sim

Not trusting the client. The latency sensitive tasks can be run in SGX which the "owner" does not control in practice.

>>909988

Also require paying for every account, a google account and go hard after cheaters to ban them quickly. Give rewards for players to rat out cheaters and punish false reports.

>>909989

>a google account

get the fuck out of here with that shit faggot.

all games already have required you to pay to get online for 20 years now. it works good enough and gives profit to the developers, so they have nothing to complain about

>>909891

>users own the machine

Intel would beg to differ, pleb.

There is a mmo Dev that has made some good points on how to fight cheating :

http://ithare.com/category/security/anti-cheating/

One of his ideas is to make often new releases of the mmo client and force the update (Detect and refuse old), make some changes that need hackers to follow up.

If the hackers need for a little reward every week to redo a lot of non automatable work, the cheating becomes uninteresting.

Otherwise his page is a good read on the subject.

>>909891

>Your anti cheating software does nothing. It is placebo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_Guard_Extensions

Anti cheat is DRM.

>>910003

>updating the protocol and kicking off clients with old versions

oldest trick in the book

MMOs are not real games tho, since they're just RPGs

>“What if we send not just a challenge, but a “challenge which includes some piece of code to be executed on the Client-Side”?”

is this even possible to implement? you aren't truly sending arbitrary code to execute but something generated by your program that tries to make it "random". once the guy figures out the pattern he can solve any program without needing to execute it, because you only generate a subset of possible programs

>>909943

>>909951

>>909966

https://lg.io/2015/07/05/revised-and-much-faster-run-your-own-highend-cloud-gaming-service-on-ec2.html

https://lg.io/2016/10/12/cloudy-gamer-playing-overwatch-on-azures-new-monster-gpu-instances.html

>>909980

With cute girls

>>909897

>the next thing

https://segmentnext.com/2018/03/26/valve-using-1700-cpus-vacnet-cheaters/

>>909974

>I never got into ML but I wonder how it's actually supposed to work.

I am talking about things like suspicious movement and aim. Depending on the seriousness it either flags the moderation team to review them or plainly bans them.

>>910038

Yes, Valve has started using it to flag players for review. It's convenient that they have a large dataset of gameplay labelled for cheating.

>>909974

>calls Crysis, STALKER and FEAR crap games

What even?

>>909881 (OP)

>What will anti cheating look like in the future?

Botnet rootkit anti-cheat, "(((trusted computing)))", (((remote attestation))), and (((approved hardware))). remote attestation is not necessarily bad, but jews push it to make sure you're using their pozzed botnetware

There's a solution already and it's >>909891.

Just play with people you trust.

>>909881 (OP)

>not mentioned in that advertisement disguised as news:

10 chinks arrested for PUBG cheating

>>909965

This is how Dota 2 does it but it only gets away with it due to the nature of the control scheme, the lag on actions isn't usually a big deal since it's set up like a strategy game. Even maphax don't work because the server only updates the clients on what they can see in the fog of war.

>>910033

https://youtu.be/jeapeI_Kp28

>the latency is fine

i can see this guy move his mouse and the screen update half a second later. he also dies in the single shitty video he did of the shitty game he's playing for $3/hr.

>>910049

>It's convenient that they have a large dataset of gameplay labelled for cheating.

It's also convenient they have a client installed on 100 million computers that spies on everything they do, in game and out.

>>910190

>that spies on everything they do, in game and out.

[citation needed]

>>910181

Until it doesn't and you can see particles and other shit in FoW

Valve uses a combination of machine learning and encouraging community response. Their machine learning setup watches thousands of recorded CS:GO matches a day and is a bunch of massive server racks running 24/7

>>909886

There's already a DRM that does that, but the VM it uses is a different architecture created specifically for the DRM. But AFAIK no AAA games are using it yet.

>>909974

>Crysis, F.E.A.R

>shitgames

No. They are good but placed the focus on single player. I don't even know if Crysis 1 has a multiplayer mode.

I'm pretty sure it's really easy to get around VAC by writing your cheats in asm.

>>910244

>Their machine learning setup watches thousands of recorded CS:GO matches a day and is a bunch of massive server racks running 24/7

imagine how much power that wastes, when you could just have community run dedicated servers instead of this matchmaking shit.

>>910297

Crysis doesn't have MP, Warhead does have a multiplayer part called Crysis Wars.

>>910033

>.io

>le EC2 XDDD

opinion disregarded. as i said, latency is a problem and there's no getting around it. posting some "proof" that you got around it makes no sense because it's impossible to get around it.

>>910049

>I am talking about things like suspicious movement and aim. Depending on the seriousness it either flags the moderation team to review them or plainly bans them.

This is precisely what I was talking about.

>>910297

>>910089

crapgames as in, don't have real multiplayer code. the single player works perfectly fine though (not Crysis though since it's buggy as shit)

>>910038

people have been doing this for 10 years. just because it has a "deep learning" buzzword on it doesn't make it fundamentaly different. and, like I said, most implementations of this will just cause false positives even when there's no reason to because game developers aren't very rigorous people in the first place. also all these ML solutions claim to be based on training, but how are you supposed to train something if the people training it are idiots? most gamers will cry cheater every second time they die in a game

>>910333

>Crysis 1 had no multiplayer

Hmm I wonder why there was a giant button that says "Multiplayer" in the main menu then

>>910111

b-but the internet is unsafe, are you sure I shouldn't go to my friend's house and LAN/splitscreen directly?

>>909881 (OP)

>mods are cheating

Like >>910324 said, the main problem here is simply the fact that everyone and their dog is squeezed into the same giant metaserver with the same giant persistently scored matchlist. Time was, individual clans had their own colo servers, and you coul dfind everything from tightly admin'd competitive servers, to chaotic free-for-alls consisting of every hack and exploit imaginable, depending on the server.

>>909891

>Any sufficiently motivated user will get around whatever pitiful protections you put in place

I'm glad that proprietary software is fine then! Its all equivalent to the open source after all. Its just a binary. Everything it does is open for your inspection. Its easy!

>>910324

>easy to get around VAC

or just run hacks as root. Since VAC isn't run as root, it can't see your cheat if you have everything set up.

There's one "cheat" I found by accident that works in every game, is undetectable and lets you see through walls. I have never seen anyone else do it. I found it by pure luck.

>>911255

Fucking around with DirectX?

Players will either learn to handle cheaters as a community or we will end up with the most invasive malware imaginable. We already have literal rootkits like Gameguard that do nothing to stop it.

Cheating will be impossible in the future as we'll have encrypted memory. AMD and Intel have already tried (if you have a modern processor you have support for it) but failed due to $300M of diversity. They're both trying again. Only question is, how long until this starts affecting you. I'd give it 10-15 years.

>>911490

Encrypted memory is going to be awesome. You can just encrypt your code for the CPU, upload it to a cloud server, and they cant know whats going on.

Who remember Punkbuster and Gamespy?

>>911490

how will that work? sounds retarded becuase

>lol oracles

>lol side channels

>lol bootstrapping issues

>lol reverse engineering CPU

but i dont want to put too much thought into meme technology