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 No.876993>>877061 >>877154 >>877160 >>877191 >>877242 >>877276 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]

Are these faggots ever going to actually release anything we can get our hands on and play with?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-gf8p5_t7M

 No.876997>>877061


 No.877003>>877544


 No.877061>>877077 >>877544

>>876997

That's quite retarded because:

1. The engine still uses textures

2. It uses a horseload of power

3. It demands great efforts

4. Cannot be used to make VR games

Also, the retard compared current year engine graphics made by top professionals with a 2011 demo made by amateurs.

See this here:

https://youtu.be/5AvCxa9Y9NU

>>876993 (OP)

They already made it, as you know. Their biggest asset is their method, mostly certain patented, so things will proceed slowly.


 No.877077>>877096 >>877246

>>877061

>Their biggest asset is their method, mostly certain patented, so things will proceed slowly.

I hate the patents system.


 No.877096>>877247 >>877312

>>877077

Everyone does, even the patent holders. But you must have a way to reward inventors.

If I had power over this, I would stipulate a system where the government pays the inventor a monthly salary based on the outreach, adoption and relevancy of his invention - therefore freeing patents and making everything public domain.


 No.877154>>877160

>>876993 (OP)

They have an application designed for geospatial information systems. The idea is that you can scan an area and display it on any laptop. This kind of system is useful for engineers and planners to physically see an area without necessarily being there.


 No.877160>>877195 >>877196 >>877544

>>876993 (OP)

They already did. There was a web demo IIRC.

It's mostly shit because the technique requires that everything is static. The only way that they can animate 3D is by doing a "flipbook" style animation.

>>877154

They also made some sort of VR game / experience place or something.


 No.877164

>no webms

irrelevant thread


 No.877191>>877195 >>877544

>>876993 (OP)

there is a guy on youtube who has been making something similar in unity:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX_5t4F9zsOVfW5_0alc7AQ/videos?disable_polymer=1

below is a comment from this video that says something about his and euclideons pointcloud renderer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqkKTDlD2d8

>I understand what you are meaning for sure, but I think everything got blown out of proportions when everyone was calling them snake oil sales men, and people did not listen to what they where actually saying in the videos or maybe not explained perfectly enough at the time.

>The main difference between point cloud rendering like mine and Euclideon, and how it is different to what is currently done, is you can have unlimited detail in regards to data to access from - to present to the screen (of coarse to render infinite points to the screen would be impossible but you only need w*h of pixels and everything else is waste). with triangle meshes, as you know, you are limited because every draw call per mesh costs you however with point clouds you can just grab what you need and present to the screen. The Real cost though is Hard drive space. So only good for Instillation's or arcades or streaming realistically or enthusiasts who just want to make their own VR and AR worlds.

>I agree with you, Like everything the concepts that make it work are not revolutionary, but the way they are used and the results are really extraordinary. And I'm blown away by the frame rates in mine, as a comparison I get 2 fps in MESHLAB on 18 million point cloud on my gtx970 and in unity with my renderer, well you can see not even an issue.


 No.877195>>877337

>>877191

Don't forget that they bypass memory and render the data directly.

It's basically the perfect thing everyone ever wanted.

>>877160

>It's mostly shit because the technique requires that everything is static. The only way that they can animate 3D is by doing a "flipbook" style animation.

Not...


 No.877196>>877199 >>877234 >>877337

>>877160

>It's mostly shit because the technique requires that everything is static. The only way that they can animate 3D is by doing a "flipbook" style animation.

You don't know what you're talking about, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3Ets6bWjEQ


 No.877199>>877204

>>877196

I think this method is not quite the same method used in Euclideon. The method they use in Euclideon is based on a tree search. The detail of a scene is formed by searching through a tree of nodes a prestructured scene. I'm not quite sure this voxel system works the same way.


 No.877204

>>877199

Euclideon says that they fill the dot mapping with voxels. It's in their first video.

https://youtu.be/00gAbgBu8R4


 No.877234

File (hide): 00b5fdd3a6187fe⋯.jpg (1.88 MB, 4032x3024, 4:3, IMG_9173.JPG) (h) (u)

File (hide): 4b66ed791308baf⋯.jpg (1.71 MB, 4032x3024, 4:3, IMG_9176.JPG) (h) (u)

>>877196

I met the guy who wrote the Atomontage engine at Oculus Connect 4. He had John Carmack use the engine in VR while kneeling on the floor. It was an absolute 10/10 topest of keks.

PS: check out his super lit pelican case rig.


 No.877242>>877250 >>877544

>>876993 (OP)

I've been following them for a while.

I've read their patent, it's cool and a good idea, but not enough to base a company off. The patent is basically about approximating a perspective projection of the scene (hard to compute) with an orthogonal projection (easy to compute). Didn't read the whole thing but I assume they stitch together a bunch of orthogonal projections to build the whole scene.

The key is that this is possibly an advancement on voxel rendering, but it isn't going to fundamentally change the situation of voxel rendering vs polygon rendering. Given this, their business strategy makes no sense. They should have been either

(1) marketing their method as a voxel rendering engine that could be used alongside polygon rendering. This would require dropping the bullshit about replacing polygon rendering, and focusing on running their code on the GPU.

(2) marketing their method as a replacement for existing voxel rendering. This would require doing direct comparisons with existing voxel rendering engines, which I'm pretty sure they never did.

Instead, they first marketed their method as a replacement for polygon rendering. Then when this didn't work, they pivoted to "hologram" technology (i.e. using 3d projectors/screens and glasses) which in no way depends on their actual tech.


 No.877246

>>877077

If there was a patent, anyone with a sliver of programming knowledge would be able to make a duplicate. For this reason nobody files industry secrets for a fucking patent.


 No.877247

>>877096

Or you can, you know, just charge royalties for using your patent.


 No.877250>>877324

File (hide): c77b923610a2aa7⋯.jpg (7.99 KB, 480x360, 4:3, hqdefault.jpg) (h) (u)

>>877242

>tree search

>fast

On a mathematically perfect Turing machine, yeah.


 No.877276


 No.877312

>>877096

>you must have a way to reward inventors.

But the patent system does the opposite. Especially if they want to research prior art and build upon previous discoveries:

>you can get sued for infringing a patent you didn't even know existed, stalling or even costing you your work

>no one tries to find out whether they're infringing because if they saw something, that means triple damages

>the licensing fees that earn patent holders money are the very same that raise costs for inventors

>patent thickets in several fields create an insurmountable barrier to entry for small companies

>tons of inventions are held back/impeded by patents (ain't your competition just licensing their shit to you)

>the patent system enables non-practicing entities (i.e. bloodsuckers who hoard patents solely to sue)

>only patentable ideas will receive funding (because patents are weapons for/deterrents against lawsuits and you can collect rent license them for money)

>software patents are outright CANCER that shouldn't exist

>etc.


 No.877324

>>877250

>tree search

>fast

They fixed that problem without your mememachine.


 No.877327>>877353

At this point "Infinite Detail" is just an investment scam. They've been showing the same shitty demos for a decade now, while the dirty polygon tech has far exceeded what they've been promising.


 No.877337>>877353

>>877195

>Not...

Maybe it doesn't require it, but that is what they are currently doing for performance reasons AFAIK.

>>877196

This isn't by Euclideon though. I'm not discrediting voxel based engines in whole, but rather just what Euclideon is doing.


 No.877353>>877360

>>877327

Well, you're wrong. Modern engines still can't do what Euclideon does.

That game they made? They only had a team of 3 people making it, 3 amateurs.

>>877337

>Maybe it doesn't require it, but that is what they are currently doing for performance reasons AFAIK.

It's not due to performance reasons. They're simply creating a game engine from scratch, and they don't have any experience at all with it and their whole company only has 30 employees, of whom maybe 10 work with coding.

Also, if you guys don't know, Euclideon can't partner, sell, buy or being bought by any company - they're funded by the Australian government and don't have any decision power.


 No.877360>>877367 >>877446

>>877353

>Modern engines still can't do what Euclideon does.

Maybe, but they can release a product which is an essential feature in any game engine.

>That game they made?

Download link? Big claims with no proof and you can't fault others for assuming it's snake oil.

>They're simply creating a game engine from scratch, and they don't have any experience at all with it

Call me crazy but maybe they should hire someone who has the experience instead of doing it wrong just to learn how you don't do it.


 No.877367

>>877360

>Maybe, but they can release a product which is an essential feature in any game engine.

Their purpose isn't even of being a game company or to make a game engine, they're a geomapping service provider doing extra projects in their free time.

>Download link? Big claims with no proof and you can't fault others for assuming it's snake oil.

It wasn't released to the public.

It's in OP's video.

>snake oil

Are you being forced to buy anything? Were you cheated? No.

>Call me crazy but maybe they should hire someone who has the experience instead of doing it wrong just to learn how you don't do it.

Agreed.


 No.877368

Why would I want to put a face botnet on


 No.877446>>877558 >>877637

>>877360

>Call me crazy but maybe they should hire someone who has the experience instead of doing it wrong just to learn how you don't do it.

<hurr durr maybe they should hire someone that has innovated what isn't innovated

<hurr durr all innovations are done right the first time

You're not crazy, just fucking stupid. Get some life experience before posting again.


 No.877544>>877561 >>877627

File (hide): ae06791d6257294⋯.jpg (225.81 KB, 1280x960, 4:3, CAVE_Crayoland.jpg) (h) (u)

File (hide): 7bd3e3956b4b172⋯.mp4 (13.79 MB, 954x714, 159:119, Nature suxx - Federation a….mp4) (h) (u) [play once] [loop]

>atoms

>point cloud data

<they're called voxels you pretentious twat

>>877003

>hologram room

>holotable like star wars

<holograms aren't volumetric, you dunce

<not that it's even holographic, single-viewer-per-channel location-dependent 2D video

<actually video projectors with people wearing head trackers and polarized glasses straight out of 1990s CrystalEyes CAVE:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_automatic_virtual_environment

<misleading fake CGI promo footage of translucent glowing images sticking up above the screen and obstructing the environment

Nice culling algorithm, though! Have they tried this with some sort of raytracing/radiosity renderer so the materials don't have that typical "fluffy" voxel look?

>>877160

>>877191

>>877242

Using voxels directly is unbeatable for rigid frangible masses like stone, and amorphous volumes like clay, water, or steam. But much like >>877061 notes the different strengths and weaknesses of Gouraud shaded polygons with bitmapped surfaces, it's not an end-all-be-all.

A better approach is the one used by most 3D art software, where more abstract higher order mathematics (implicit solids, isosurfaces, Bézier hulls, NURBS, fractals, etc.) are the preferred format, and can be rendered directly using a truly global illumination system thanks to the nature of raytracing. This also makes it easier to mix different types of geometry, and animation of polygon or voxel content is eased by using higher math as an "intermediate" format to generate or interpolate between keyframes.

MP4 related is an old example of how such typical 3D art program stuff could be done in realtime even on early 2000s hardware (software, single core, no SIMD), detailed further here:

http://mpierce.pie2k.com/pages/108.php


 No.877558

>>877446

Game engines have existed for ages. They don't have to do it right if they don't want to, but if they have any interest in it the lead must know how to develop an engine or they'll end up with some unusable mess.


 No.877561

>>877544

There's also some really cool research out there in using machine learning to remove noise from an image / frame meaning that you can do all sorts of complicated lighting and stuff in real time.


 No.877627>>877628 >>877630

>>877544

They're essentially the same thing, points in a 3D space like you said. Voxels are generally thought of as the "pixels" of a 3D grid of known dimensions, say 512x512x512. Like how pixels are a unit of a 2D grid. Point clouds are generally used is a world space of undefined dimensions, like cm or mm in XYZ as floating point coordinates, but they can just add easily be integer coordinates just like in a voxel volume. It's trivial to convert a point cloud to a voxel volume and vice versa, so they are equivalent mathematically. I think the easiest way to think of it is that voxels are an element of a space with predefined, quantized dimensions, and points of a point cloud are elements of a space with undefined, non-quantized dimensions. Or maybe more succinctly, voxels are elements of a specific, defined voxel volume, and point clouds are just a collection of points.


 No.877628>>877629 >>877633

File (hide): 3b924e7e13cbe25⋯.png (1.05 MB, 1920x1080, 16:9, mpv-shot0048.png) (h) (u)

>>877627

>equivalent mathematically

But Anon, there is no bijection between the set of real numbers and the set of integers.


 No.877629>>877633

>>877628

There is a bijection in real world datasets.


 No.877630

>>877627

>He thinks the sets are isomorphic


 No.877633>>877635 >>877636

>>877628

(not him)

True, but there is between the set of floating point numbers in any architecture and integers.

>>877629

That's not how it works. Bijection means you can map one to another, with natural and real numbers you can't as real is a larger infinity (basically there are infinite numbers between 0.0 and 1.0 but not so between 0 an 1).


 No.877635

>>877633

>there is between the set of floating point numbers in any architecture and integers

True, I only nitpicked the comment because he said it was true mathematically.


 No.877636>>877639

>>877633

There are no infinite numbers in real life.


 No.877637

>>877446

>Can't sage

>Thinks renderer == engine

Holy shit nigger, you're retarded.


 No.877639>>877686 >>877828

>>877636

Reminder quantum mechanics posits the entire universe is composed of 1 Planck length voxels, at a frame interval of 1 Planck time, and energy leaping at a discrete bit depth of one Planck energy.


 No.877686

>>877639

Reminder that quantum mechanics doesn't exist.


 No.877828>>877847

>>877639

>is composed of 1 Planck length voxels

Just because we can't measure lengths < 1 Planck length doesn't mean thing's length can be represented by an integer number of Plank lengths.


 No.877847

>>877828

>represented by an integer

Integers don't exist in real life, for they are an infinite set. You can write down an infinity symbol, that does not make what it represents constructable.




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