[–]▶ No.853324>>853325 >>853329 >>853337 >>853526 >>853595 >>853738 >>854048 >>854058 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]
Share your X hate here. I'll start:
Clipboard and copy-paste is garbage. If you don't know, copy in X11 is just highlighting the thing you want, and pasting is middle click where you want to paste it
this is completely retarded
>em eb
>chatting on irc with comfy irssi
>"oh, someone posted a link"
>highlight the url
>go to browser
>click url bar to get rid of url
>THE ACT OF DOING THAT COPIES THE FUCKING URL IN THE BAR
▶ No.853325>>853451
>>853324 (OP)
<THE ACT OF DOING THAT COPIES THE FUCKING URL IN THE BAR
Get a better browser faggot.
Also fuck X because of all the double-buffering madness that has to go on just to display something on screen. Also fuck the X,Y position without a third definition shit. Also also fuck MIT shared memory insecurity.
▶ No.853329>>853451
>>853324 (OP)
I've never had this problem.
▶ No.853337>>853451
>>853324 (OP)
about:config
Set browser.urlbar.clickSelectsAll to false.
Problem solved.
Alternately, open a new tab before pasting the URL.
▶ No.853340>>853455
>have a sudden minor issue to vent about
>"I know, let's make a thread on /tech/, pretending to be a normal thread, but it's just me killing a demonstrably better thread with my attention whoring"
▶ No.853361>>853455
With Firefox you can do ^L and it highlights the URL, then hit Backspace to clear it. That doesn't copy it, since you didn't use the mouse. To copy it, you'd have to do ^C instead of Backspace. And then ^V in other program to paste, but not programs like xterm where instead you have to use the middle mouse or Shift-Insert.
Are you writing all this down OP? Now hold on, that's just the start. There's a lot more to this.
https://www.jwz.org/doc/x-cut-and-paste.html
▶ No.853399>>853455 >>853476 >>853649 >>854048
The clipboard stuff is shit but that's not the reason. Your issue is fixed by knowing there are 3 separate clipboards.
The big problem with it is that it doesn't just copy the content into a buffer somewhere. No, they had to make it so that a window owns a clipboard and then talks to the other application through a communication protocol. This communication can cause lag spikes when pasting.
▶ No.853417
>middleclicking url bar
I smell autism
▶ No.853418>>853427
Xresources is such a wonderful concept
wish UI toolkits used it
▶ No.853427
>>853418
It would be if the attributes had unified names.
▶ No.853451>>853560
>>853325
all browsers do this, faggot
>>853329
>"hehe! werks on my mashine!!1!"
>>853337
>you have to change about:config to make copy-paste sane
also, this still isn't ideal, because it would be faster if you could simply click the bar and hit backspace.
Furthermore, if the URL in the bar is larger than the space provided in said bar, you would click it, and then have to arrow over to the right slowly. Or you could click and drag to the right to get there, but that would be highlighting which puts us back in the same situation.
opening a new tab could be another workaround, but that's ultimately what this all is.
They're Workarounds to a fundamental design flaw.
▶ No.853455>>853456
>>853340
did you read the fucking OP?
The thread is about general autistic complaints about the X windows system, not necessarily just my particular issue with copying and pasting. Hence the opening phrase
>Share your X hate here. I'll start.
>>853361
Incorrect. Although that is indeed a handy shortcut that I didn't know about, highlighting the URL with ^L copies it, even though the mouse was not used.
also, your statement about having to ^C to copy is incorrect, because as we have established, copy-paste is select and middle click. I am aware that ^C also copies, but that appears to be a firefox thing or something, and does not relate to the clipboard I am referring to. It also does not solve the problem.
>>853399
>there are 3 separate clipboards.
This is a bad thing and needs to die.
>lag spikes when pasting.
never experienced this. If it's true, then X clipboard is even worse than I thought.
▶ No.853456>>853464
>>853455
>there should only be one clipboard because I only use one
kill you're self
▶ No.853464>>857217
▶ No.853476>>853493 >>853501
>>853399
>No, they had to make it so that a window owns a clipboard and then talks to the other application through a communication protocol.
It's almost as if people forget X was designed to work over a network.
▶ No.853493>>853671
>>853476
It's almost as if people forgot VNC exists
▶ No.853494
>run browser on Xephyr
>never have faggot op's problems
▶ No.853501>>853671
>>853476
>It's almost as if people forget X was designed to work over a network.
That doesn't excuse it though. Storing it in a program means that when that window closes, you lose whatever you copied. There are other ways places you could store it for that not to happen.
▶ No.853526>>853554
>>853324 (OP)
You can use the normal copypaste, it's 2 separate clipboards.
Retard.
▶ No.853554>>853642
>>853526
what normal copypaste?
this is from irssi. There is only one clipboard option
Retard.
▶ No.853560
>>853451
>all browsers do this, faggot
<highlight url
<click chromium url bar
<press backspace to delete full url selection
<middle click to paste mouse selection
Works 100% of the time. Take mozilla's feminine penis out of your mouth and use a browser that doesn't use "muh demographics" as a cop-out excuse for shitty UX.
▶ No.853561>>853564
http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/unix-haters/x-windows/disaster.html
>If the designers of X-Windows built cars, there would be no fewer than five steering wheels hidden about the cockpit, none of which followed the same principles -- but you'd be able to shift gears with your car stereo. Useful feature, that.
>- Marus J. Ranum, Digital Equipment Corporation
▶ No.853564>>853574 >>853578
>>853561
Good thing it's getting replaced by Wayland.
▶ No.853574>>853603
>>853564
can i run wayland over a network, ssh, multibox, etc?
no
https://wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html#heading_toc_j_8
they want you to run wayland + X, why the fuck would I want to do that.
Wayland is more nuLinux cancer in image of systemd and rust. fuck wayland. There's nothing wrong with X.
▶ No.853578>>853586
>>853564
But wayland is pozzed right now. You lose the window management freedom that we have on X, there's no standard for server-side decoration at all. It's yet another step for the redhat takeover of GNU+Linux.
▶ No.853579>>853582 >>854078
wew
better check your privilege cis white X people.
▶ No.853582>>853585
>>853579
It could be worse, how many corporations who contribute to freedesktop projects are member of the todo group?
▶ No.853586
>>853578
>yet another step for the redhat takeover of GNU+Linux.
I don't believe Sway is being developed by Redhat
Come to think of it, I don't remember seeing anything about Redhat developing Wayland either.
▶ No.853589>>853599 >>853758 >>853950
>>853585
X.org, GStreamer, Wayland, Mesa, are all cancer now.
I can't think of a way to not use these things anymore without dropping the GUI all together. There's no way around using these.
▶ No.853595>>853598 >>853599
>>853324 (OP)
You're using Firefox aren't, you millennial reddit fag?
▶ No.853598
>>853595
Young people use chrome.
▶ No.853599
>>853589
Look, I don't agree with (((their))) politics either, but I'm not going to judge the software based on that. That would be retarded
There's lots of other things to judge it on.
Like the fucking clipboard shit.
>>853595
Pale Meme. Eventually planning to switch to GNU Icecat.
I would never touch mainline Firefox with a 10-foot pole
▶ No.853603>>853950
>>853574
That's like the worst possible ending. I don't want to run either Wayland or X, much less both. A simple framebuffer ought to be enough to do everything graphical I need. I'll never understand this demented fascination everyone has with making huge, bloated, inefficient, buggy software and trying to pretend it's the best thing in the world.
▶ No.853642>>853652
>>853554
Ctrl-shift-c
Retard.
▶ No.853649>>853652
>>853399
Not to mention if you close the program you copied a line from you lose the fucking copy.
▶ No.853652>>853656
>>853642
Just tried it. It doesn't work
>>853649
Just tried it. You're right.
This just keeps getting better and better
▶ No.853655>>853666
I really wish I could just ditch X altogether but there's some things I need a GUI for like web browsing, reading PDFs and such, Photoshop in Wine, and a handful of emulators. And I really don't want to do those things solely on my phone because I hate using a touch screen.
▶ No.853656>>853657
>>853652
>Just tried it. It doesn't work
What do you mean it doesn't work, did you even highlight the fucking text?
▶ No.853657>>853670
>>853656
Yes.
it doesn't work.
▶ No.853666>>853950
>>853655
>I really wish I could just ditch X but I need a GUI for everything
Wayland
▶ No.853670>>853677
>>853657
What terminal emulator are you using and what are the preferences?
▶ No.853671>>853674 >>853677 >>853806 >>853950
>>853501
>you lose whatever you copied.
If I am running a X program off a remote machine where would it store it locally?
>>853493
>It's almost as if people forgot VNC exists
VNC is a PITA If I want to just run one program like an email clients it's much nicer to just to 'ssh -X' to the machine and just send that one program over. On the local machine it looks like just another window.
It is interesting the X cut-and-paste seems to Just Werk with OSX. Maybe this is all a GNU problem?
I cut and paste between firefox on OSX and claws-mail on remote BSD machines all the time.
▶ No.853674>>853950 >>854066
>>853671
X protocol works poorly over a slow network when using an application that's using a recent toolkit. It's a poor argument, sadly.
▶ No.853677>>853679 >>853737
>>853670
rxvt-unicode
first time I tried it, control-shift entered a mode to enter special characters, so I set
urxvt*iso14755: false
urxvt*iso14755_52: false
and tried it again. control-shift-c just gives the standard kill command.
It doesn't work.
>>853671
I wouldn't say it's a GNU problem. I haven't tested it, but i'd be willing to bet that *BSD would have the same issue on X11.
The reason why OSX just werks is because it uses the super key essentially as a second type of control key.
▶ No.853679>>853680
▶ No.853680>>853684
>>853679
>delete
on a fucking laptop?
▶ No.853684>>853721
>>853680
My panny tbook, Eee, and Dell all have delete keys. What kinda shit laptop do you have that doesn't have a DELETE key?
▶ No.853686>>853734
will it make any sense to port xenocara to Linux? I kind of forget why OpenBSD forked it in the first place. running without root privilege must be a good thing but beside that what kind of change in functionality did they introduce?
▶ No.853721
>>853684
getting a GPD POCKET tomorrow and it has a delete key.
fucking laptop anon probably means that this key is too awkardly placed to use normally on his particular laptop.
that GPD Pocket btw is a replacement for my old Zaurus, which I ran fvwm2 on, under OpenBSD, using X.
it was completely fine.
I also used X in a networked configuration on a secret squirrel platform where everyone had root and full access to each other's display
one day taught some fellow squirrels how to run 'xkill' on a friend's terminal
they went a little overboard with this knowledge...
X was fine :^)
▶ No.853734>>853736
>>853686
src> cat /etc/sysctl.conf
machdep.allowaperture=0 # See xf86(4)
But frankly, you're better off without X altogether. Then you can even use non-x86 game console that doesn't have buggy CPU or Intel ME shit, but has limited RAM. Or you can get Beaglebone Black and have big RAM disk, to avoid lots of SD card writes.
▶ No.853736
>>853734
BTW you won't be able to lower that variable all the way to 0 and still run X on some graphics cards. I use the non-accelerated wsfb driver instead, but again I don't like X/Wayland type shit to begin with, so no loss there.
src> cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf
Section "Device"
Identifier "Device0"
Driver "wsfb"
EndSection
▶ No.853737>>853827
>>853677
urxvt has a special kind of autism. Use ctrl+alt+C.
▶ No.853738>>853827
>>853324 (OP)
your retarded OP. what your complaining about is so stupid. delete your fucking thread faggot
kys
▶ No.853758
>>853589
>There's no way around using these.
Psst, hey kid!
▶ No.853806>>853931
>>853671
Standard X forwarding is slow and barely usable. But something like X-2Go works like a charm
▶ No.853827
>>853737
THANK YOU SO MUCH NOW IT ACTUALLY WORKS HOLY FUCKING SHIT
>>853738
>your retarded OP
probably
>what your complaining about is so stupid.
nah it's pretty legit. X11 doesn't need three fucking clipboards or whatever. I don't like to compliment proprietary (botnet) operating systems, but Winblows and OSX are proof that just one is perfectly fine.
>delete your fucking thread faggot
nope.
▶ No.853915
>this whole thread
what the fuck. I never had any of your problems. Ctrl +c to copy, ctrl + v to paste. Same with shift when in terminal. Clicking once on the url bar usually selects it all so you can just paste your n.a. link and it will replace it. If it doesn't select all text and instead drop the cursor in the middle of the text press ctrl a to select all.
LXDE master race.
▶ No.853931>>853963 >>854211
>>853806
>Standard X forwarding is slow and barely usable
I only have 100meg internet at home and it responds almost exactly like running off the LAN at my office. That was a valid complaint back in the dialup and adsl days but today I don't see it.
▶ No.853950>>854211
>>853603
>>853589
>>853666
>>853671
>>853674
Why do autists insist on running gui applications remotely this has never made sense to me. If this is a thing people need then we really need a distributed operating system similar to that of Plan9, gui running locally processing done elsewhere.
DirectFB could save us if only it wasn't abandoned, now we are stuck with either cli, or X11 + QT4 + QT5 + GTK3 + GTK2 + Wayland + Whatever else (((they))) can possibly smear into their applications.
Alt-C Alt-V should be copy/paste that way is doesn't conflict with the classic ^C ^V of unix. Ctrl-C Ctrl-V copy/paste is a windowsism.
▶ No.853963>>854025 >>854067
>>853931
>I only have a $1000/month connection at home and it's not slow therefore it's not slow on normal connections!
>meme flag
What a surprise.
▶ No.854025
>>853963
100mbps isn't that expensive unless you're in the middle of nowhere. Even then you can't pay 1k for it since it won't be available.
▶ No.854048
>>853324 (OP)
>finds a problem
>cant find solution themself and instead rants it on an imageboard thinking God will fix it for anon
>>853399
this.
>DE clipboard
>XCB/X11 or Wayland
>window's native (gtk qt whatevs)
▶ No.854058>>854211
>>853324 (OP)
X
>works on most computers even ancient ones
>has two working 3D accel over network extensions
>is standard and works across OS's
>x.org has drivers for most everything
Sorry I'm not buying into your new meme display server thinger.
▶ No.854066
>>853674
It works slowly over fast networks two, even with two machines networked directly together using gigabit ethernet, firefox and dolphin are unusable. Somehow, remote desktop programs transfer more information and have more functionality and still somehow aren't slow as shit.
>Why do autists insist on running gui applications remotely
There are certain programs that are GUI-only that can't be run remotely without either X or remote desktop. X gargles dicks and remote desktop is overkill.
▶ No.854067>>854075 >>854121 >>854140
>>853963
Charter internet is $69 month for 100/10.
Frontier is selling FiOS for $74month
ATT 1gig FTTH is $80 a month
Comcast is the biggest ISP in the USA and selling 2 gig now.
100M is kinda weak in current year+2. Do you live in a trailer park?
▶ No.854075>>854121
>>854067
>100M is weak
You realize the USA is an enormous country and that significant portions of the whitest areas only have cable or DSL don't you?
I realize that a faggot in a big city with their fiber to the home must think that buffering their 4k stream is an outrage but you have to have some perspective. Unless you watch or pirate TV all day massive bandwidth is practically irrelevant you know.
▶ No.854078>>854091 >>854211 >>854507
>>853579
>>853585
is there something safe from this fucking infection? jesus....
▶ No.854121>>854228
>>854075
>>854067
this, a good part of the U.S. doesn't even have cable, your stuck with DSL, and another significant portion doesn't even have that, your on dial-up or expensive sat connections, or if your lucky 4G for $200/mo for a home connection.
It's the penalty for freedom and wide open space and not being surrounded by niggers and other undesirables in the cities.
▶ No.854140
>>854067
10mbps is all you need if you're not some manchild who needs 4K everything
▶ No.854211>>857226
>>853931
dude I fucking wish I had 100meg. I just got from 20 to 70 recently.
>>853950
Well their idea is to take X11 out of the mix. The XWayland shit is just for compatibility while the transition takes place.
Also, changing the bindings for copy-paste might not be a bad idea.
Windows using ^C and ^V, MacOS using super+C and super+V, and GNU/Linux using Alt+C and Alt+V?
Makes sense.
>>854058
>it's a meme
Ubuntu ships with it.
Fedora ships with it.
Debian 10 will ship with it.
You sure this is still just a meme?
>>854078
>>854091
Apartheid uses X.
▶ No.854228>>854305 >>854308 >>854316
>>854121
I live out in bfn western pa and have Cumcast. They are dicks but at least their internet is decent. It's at least 200. You have to be really innawoods or poorfag to still be on dsl or dialup today. The "most Americans can't get internet" is a meme the NNfags love to push because they want free government internet.
Terry can stream HD video 24/7 from the fucking desert and you can't get internet? Ya ok.
▶ No.854305>>854307
>>854228
>The "most Americans can't get internet" is a meme the NNfags love to push because they want free government internet.
Nobody here's saying they "can't" get Internet, just that in a huge nation the size of the USA, you might not be streaming your 4k soyboy shows at 200 megabits. Most people don't care, either - the vast majority of people will never utilize their high speed internet except in small bursts a few times a week, and only if they're pirating or streaming HD video.
▶ No.854307
>>854305
>in a huge nation
For those who don't realize, the US has fewer people per square km/mile than Apefrica. In Tokyo, Paris or Jew York you lay some fiber and can sell it to many people, but in places where you can drive ages without seeing a soul it'd require laying a lot of fiber to sell to one guy. China probably has the same problem in places where few antpeople live.
▶ No.854308
>>854228
I have 100mbps through a cable line out in the sticks. Only problem was it didn't get here until 2012 and I had to pay $20,000 for the line to be run in. The towns next to me had cable television in the 80s and internet by 1997 or so. I'm not even that isolated either. They simply do not run it where it isn't profitable to do so. There are entire isolated communities near me that can't get anything better than ISDN.
▶ No.854316
>>854228
Terry hangs around near Vegas, where they have cell antennas on highrise rooftops.
Try to get the same kind of reception when you're actually in the middle of the desert with no nearby cities, or in some areas of the Rockies that have mountains and trees all around. You might not even get any cellular reception at all in some of those places.
▶ No.854355>>854371
>copying is just highlighting
Wat? To copy I have to Ctrl+C the thing I highlighted.
▶ No.854371>>854523
>>854355
>Wat? To copy I have to Ctrl+C the thing I highlighted.
newfag detected
▶ No.854507>>854773
▶ No.854523
>>854371
>try to copy text
>program closes
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!
▶ No.854772
>>853585
I see nothing wrong with this.
▶ No.854773
>>854507
That's because nobody uses it LOL
▶ No.857217
▶ No.857226
>>854211
<You sure this is still just a meme?
>everyone doing it makes it right
>being this much of a normalfaggot
The companies behind those are all politically correct brainwashed neoliberals. Get on with it if you haven't already.