/monster/ - The Last Bastion of Romance★

Many of the topics covered here were brought up in the "Wholesome Paladin Memes" thread, so feel free to read up on that to understand any current arguments going on. Here's a link to where I believe the discussion began: >>290449

Feel free to reference posts from that thread, but keep discussion to this thread.

>>292899 (OP)

What makes a monstergirl? How much monster is too much monster? How do anons feel about most MGs being just girls with just minor costume features on them?

>>292899 (OP)

In the back of my mind, I acknowledge a few realities about monstergirls.

First, they are the product of a bemused mind. Our stories and myths that depict them from antiquity have multi-faceted purposes ranging from narrative interest to ancient symbology, and ultimately exist to teach and spread stories through generations as if they were living organisms, though devoid of 'characteristics of life.'

Second, they are a medium for our pain. Few who come here come because they are happy or well adjusted. Many broken souls of varying degrees exist here alongside those ancient narratives and modern retellings. In effect, we transmute our lives into theirs; monstergirls 'cannot live a full life without a man', or have a 'nearly parasitic association' with their lovers. In a way, the pathology and attachment to them is a projection of our insecurities and fears.

And finally, that in transcending that suffering, and making more of ourselves for it, they serve their final purpose as an anima for our soul, a mechanism for fixing us from without and within. The hope for that is enough, for me at least.

>>292899 (OP)

Let's say that there is a waifu, and over the course of a year, she is monsterized with mamano mana. All of her monster parts grow over the human parts and once the monster parts are fully grown, the original parts pop off and are put in a pile. Once her new self is fully grown, all the original humie parts are reassembled and brought back to life with SCIENCE.

The question now remains though, which is the original waifu?

>>292908

They don't "pop" pop off. If you are using monsterization from the MGE setting, they just grow extra bits. This isin't a Cronenberg movie. Now if you were using weird shit like bloodborne then everything there can be considered just plain old monsters. Even the doll is hiding an eldrict abomination below its ceramic skin.

>>292912

Actually the doll is just a living doll powered by eldritch magic. No proof or suggestion it houses an eldritch horror. Unless you look at the giant brain things walking around in clothes that look like the dolls.

>>292907

Or some people just like anime girls with extra bits on them.

Then again you have to ask yourself what would happen if things were set in motion and people here got what they wanted. Would their parents freak them out, would commies and natsocs take advantage and galvanize the remaining population to either destroy or turn the monster girls and their husbands into second class citizens, because these people would be more passive than the general populaton. How would women react to the sudden change even if its impossible for earth women to monsterize. How hard will the NAP be violated in order to stop man made mistakes to reach their full conclusion? How free would things stay? How is everything we perceive being beneficial to us be suddenly taken away because another form of life enters the shitshow we call earth.

How will human society parasitize on monster girls that have control over nature, life, death, or human emotion.

Maybe the parasite is humanity itself. for wanting to change something that doesn't follow human mannerisms or will make the same mistakes that constantly befall a society of humans that has built in backstabbing as a hidden feature of the very state they depend on.

>>292926

Let me counter with my own question, how would MGs try to influence our society? No one who believes their intentions are 100% good are themselves 100% good. Would they try and shape society to better represent them, or would they attempt to change fundamental laws to benifit all MGs and limit the freedom of humans?

Who knows. But let's say they try to make a movement similar to the civil rights movement of the 60s, and over time it evolves (or devolves) into a state similar to black lives matter. They go from wanting equality to supremacy under the guise of social JUSTICE. Hypothetical obviously, but what would stop them from gaining control? They are all supremely powerful Mary Sues with no weaknesses. What's stoping them from throwing a wild wide coup like the one in the dog girl thread and dominating the world powers with macguffin mana? In fantasy settings atleast humans have a god; And even then it's a losing battle.

Sorry for the block of text

>>292931

Monstergirls would be able to smell evil from people just like most animals do.

Infact the worse thing that could happen to both nazi's and jews would be a bunch of undead with clairvoyance powers going into refurbished concentration camp museums. For one it might actually either out the holocaust just be a huge scam, or the jews actually got killed and they were right about all that crying.

The society upheaval would become immense. And if they ever went to the work camps in Russia to detect shit, they would find one of mankinds darkest crimes.

>>292940

>for our own good.

AH! The magic phrase. For your own good. Good for you, and maybe others, but the whole is a different beast.

You are very submissive, aren't you? Always agreeing to the plans of others, any relationships you might've had were ruled by the female. You are a beta or a b8er.

>>292935

… what? You pulled a /pol/ and lost me at Jews and nazis. Answer my question.

>>292926

The tragedy of man, and by extension all of life, is the unstoppable march towards infinity. Much like yeast in a Petri dish, life acts to make more of itself, racing madly against it's own oblivion despite the frank inevitability. More complex life forms niches that accomplish the act of making more of itself; while we are a collective of many trillions of single cells, together they act as one, creating a gestalt, or 'a whole greater than the sum of its parts'. Perhaps even individual souls could be seen in the same way, merely a single cell of a collective of billions, each acting towards the immutable will that drives even the simplest of creatures.

A similar principle likely applies to monstergirls. They have, as a collective, decided upon a series of niches that further their species towards the infinite. I reckon they would be similar to us in spirit, where the actions of their 'evil and good' behaviors could be charted on a bell curve. The outliers would receive our scorn as well as our admiration, but most would, for lack of a better term, be 'normal'. That is to say relatively well adjusted, proficient in what they do, yet not without flaws or handicaps of the real and imagined kinds.

Our goal then, as creatures of the call to the infinite, would be to go farther and stronger than the ones before us, making of our own path in the ways that we can. It may not mean getting a perfect monstergirl waifu, but it will be an option open to us. It's merely a matter of taking it.

>>292957

>Oh boy. Just to preface, this is my favorite board.

I haven't read the rest of your post as this one sentence filled me a strange anger that I can't pinpoint the origin of.

>>292958

Sorry Anon. I rarely post, and whenever I type out anything that I think about, I worry that it's too critical or something. So then I make it worse by doing stuff like that.

>>292953

Finally. Good to see someone who appreciates the more actual monstrous monster girls. I admire all those things. Though sometimes I wish yeti had more fluff on her.

>>292942

>Specimens of 'beta male prime' here. You'll never get the girl by just being nice, or being yourself.

Good looks is what's getting women, not any type of behaviour. The halo effect always colors your actions in the minds of other people. And good looks is the strongest halo effect there is.

>>292943

You sound like an insecure incel dweeb who strokes his fragile ego by trying to put down other on the internet tbh.

I'm not a very philosophical guy and i'm sure most folks already shared roughly the same things, but might as well throw my two cents in.

We all know modern society is deseased and rotten. Where ideas of love, family, and care for your country are thrown aside to make room for insanity and cultural suicide.

This wears down a man. Mainly because we actually give a shit. We'd be complete sociopaths otherwise. We want love. We want a family. We want some sort of wholesome fulfillment. So we go out trying to find out. Imagine our disappointment when we get the complete opposite. We become jaded and withdrawn, longing for that fulfillment. Longing for a waifu that match our ideals. And here we are.

Couple other things that I'm thinking of though. Might intersect with /pol/ here.

1. If we have an option to leave out world behind, would we? It's tempting. Extremely so. But, would some of us want to try and fix things here to the best we can? Do we want love or an escape first?

2. Say if we do stay and one of us gets into power. How much is too much for a monster girl? Say one of us decides to do some extermination of the people who ruined society in the first place. Would his waifu see him as a monster or someone willing to be a monster because he cares? Would she still be with him?

3. Would mating with a monster girl be considered race mixing or disregarding humanity? Or would it be marrying into your culture? Would it be frowned upon to mate with a girl outside your culture/mythology?

Might have rambled for a bit, but again. Not very philosophical.

>>292996

>3. Would mating with a monster girl be considered race mixing or disregarding humanity? Or would it be marrying into your culture?

It would be like quite literally marrying your culture. This would carry the side effect of libs continually getting pissed any time they see mamono children or married mamonos, because it's like seeing symbols of nationalism living and breathing around them.

I have a feeling that the repressed animalistic side of us plays a big role too. People in modern society are totally domesticated and enslaved, only caring about material gain, status, possessions, and whatever they're told they should have by mainstream media. Most are utterly weak. Especially women, and the bullshit they've been duped into believing with feminism. Men fall for the domestication too. so much fakeness.

>>292996

An extermination endangers both you and the monstergirl and the chance of having a family lowers down to almost nothing. This also fag enables terrible people who have been on a mental death march, waiting for the right situation to inflict all the evil shit they want to enact on other people, basically mad dogs. Who don't think of their children, who stopped giving a fuck about society, and will selfishly endanger everyones well being to stop a singular enemy that might be a multi faction cabal of old jewish and non jewish richfags which will stir up their MAD plans against normalfags. Completely disrupting the market and changing it will get rid of their powers but eventually lead to humanity's extinction because they don't want to lose their holdings. Earth is not a good place for children to live in and everyone here knows it.

A mass exodus would leave humanity crippled and families who give a shit about their children destroyed. If monstergirls pick out only good men and leave the edgelords behind. The men who will end up on the flipside will probably be innovators, hobbyists, people who invested time in "safe" but useless habits, angsty people willing to do work to be happy once love hits them in the face, and what this earth would consider "traditionalists" because its gotten to the point where wanting a functional family is "antiquated."

>>293020

What would a monster girl consider the limits for edge? Since we all have some level of edge in us.

I'm going to use myself as an example. I've gotten to the point where, so long as I live on this earth, I want to bring down wrath on the kikes, commies, cucks, and other assorted filth who get off on ruining society, making people into insane degenerates, etc. The thing is I want to exterminate them not because it's fun, but because they are in sore need of punishment. There is some edge there, but ultimately for a good purpose. Where would a monster girl draw the line? Would I even have a chance with a monster girl while having those thoughts?

All I really want is a nice secluded place to spend my days loving my waifu and raising a family. Where the only other place is a small town a little ways away full of decent folk who at least appreciate their culture. I'd gladly leave our world behind for that.

I'm pretty sure there's plenty of anons like me who have similar thoughts.

>>293020

Also there is the thing to consider on why the monstergirls gave us the time of day to come into this shitty world. Did they do it because they lacked men or are they running away from something that took over their world?

If anything men who end up with monstergirls will more than likely go to their world either "fix" the population problem with genetics or kill off the "world ending threat" with military hardware that will be more than likely stolen by MG's and their strange powers. People would be inclined to save a world thats actually ending rather than one thats suffering corruption that could be fixed with generations long vigilantilism till the last evil richtard is dead. And believe me if good men leave, people will notice it and get angry enough to kill their opressors and street trash. Because the levelheaded fucks just left a crazy ass world that has just had their peace loving voices of reason vanish without a trace.

>>293032

about the edge shit, i think there's a cutoff point. They would probably accept it if it means that the husband of the MG would defend their kids with their life to the point of killing intruders. Or recognizing stuff that will endanger offspring, like bad habits and manipulative merchants.

>>293032

According to KCanon, a man needs to be evil, like really evil, to be disqualified as a potential mate. Apparently even sex traffickers and bandits aren't bad enough to warrant drawing the line.

>>293039

But what about sociopaths? Guys who just dont feel emotions like normal people. Would MGs avoid them like the plague because they don't feel the emotion that MGs basically live off of or would they make a futile attempt to change them?

would his waifu make him go into dentistry to sate his urge to cause harm?

>>293040

Living out innawoods and becoming a hunter can fix that. I think most sociopathy stems from society. Therefore, isolation with nature around can fix the guy. A waifu helps too.

>>293040

Well, given how some of the waifus pretty much act sociopathic at times, I don't think that'd be too much of a problem…depends on how far gone they are, though…

>>292901

>How much monster is too much monster?

For me, it's when there's too many missing parts, or a fully animal half like horse pussy. I won't judge or purge but it's not my thing. Unlike furry and clang fags, we manage to avoid pissing contests over who's the most depraved and pushing that as "taste", let's keep it that way.

>girls in costumes

That's both wrong and not the point of monster girls to begin with. Monster girls aren't supposed to be furry-lite like some fags would imply. Their appearance isn't the only thing that's different.

They're still 2D girls, just with a few convenient things on top, such as

>providing interesting bits to what would otherwise be the blandest possible romance smut

>solving the claimed waifu problem by having the waifu be an entire species

>allowing odd, unrealistic or grossly exagerrated personality traits

>avoiding mary sues by making all of those things natural

>>292950

Being subjected to cruelty erodes spirit, leaving a man is the equivalent of scorching acres of land for no reason and sprinkling it with radioactive waste for good measure. Even if it were a choice, mamono would quickly learn to stop destroying the one thing they can't live without. A high spirit man wouldn't even want to cuck anyone, and forcing him to do so would destroy the prize itself, see above.

>>292996

Running away from shitty people is the bread and butter of western culture. We're long overdue for another leap because there's nowhere left to go.

>>293035

It's interesting to consider what a human is like from an MG's standpoint. Consider a whole bunch of different mamono species that have only ever known each other, but no humans. (Ignore the implications for a moment.) Just by looking at each other, they would eventually develop this concept of a bipedal, two armed creature with a pair of eyes, bare skin, you get the point. They might even have a name for it, to distinguish themselves from the animals they borrow some parts from, but they would consider it an abstract, platonic ideal, one that they haven't actually seen in the wild. What would then happen if they actually came in contact with a human, wouldn't they consider humans as some kind of perfect being based on what they know, like we sometimes do with elves and angels?

>>293040

>>293042

They're hollow, they would be ignored and avoided.

>I think most sociopathy stems from society

No, because it's not a trait, it's the lack of some. It's not learned either.

>>293044

Considering a human from an MG's standpoint, it depends on what they look at. I mean, even elves are technically counted as monstergirls, so seeing a "bipedal, two armed creature with a pair of eyes, bare skin, etc" isn't likely to be an unfamiliar concept to them. On top of which, many of them are physically superior to us (in terms of strength, speed, powers, etc), so I don't necessarily think they'd think of it as an ideal.

However, the other thing to consider is who they encounter. I mean, they encounter the sorta guy who'll look out for them, care about them, truly love them as they are, etc. they're gonna think of it as perfection. They run into those who'll fuck 'em and leave or are degenerates or who care more about material things than love and they'll consider humanity akin to the devil.

>>292920

Ah, my old post. Really should build up on that more one of these days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOtMizMQ6oM

>>293040

I think it depends on both the MG and the sociopath in question.

Sociopaths can vary a lot, from plain old anti-social behavior to people who have some sort of psychosis.

I think if a sociopath has suffered from some sort of irreversible psychosis or mental illness where his mind has been so impaired he cannot perceive reality in a normal way anymore, then MG's would probably avoid him the same way most people in society at large would. However, if Psychosis, or hardcore illnesses of the head have not set in, and the sociopath in question can still perceive emotions to at least to some degree, then depending on the MG, they would still at least try to bond with them. In a way, it could be therapeutic to the sociopath, and could potentially change them into a semi-normal functioning human being again.

Just my two cents

>>293040

Sociopaths can't feel emotions like normal people, but they can feel emotion, and they're not necessarily all bad guys/serial killers actually they're completely incapable of long-term planning so they'd make terrible criminals regardless. I don't see any reason why an MG wouldn't be able to hook up with one. Sure the relationship would be different but not impossible.

>>293044

>Being subjected to cruelty erodes spirit, leaving a man is the equivalent of scorching acres of land for no reason and sprinkling it with radioactive waste for good measure. Even if it were a choice, mamono would quickly learn to stop destroying the one thing they can't live without. A high spirit man wouldn't even want to cuck anyone, and forcing him to do so would destroy the prize itself, see above.

Men with high-quality spirit aren't necessarily good or morally upstanding men. Hell the setting doesn't really tell us what makes someone have high spirit or not.

>>293052

Sociopaths are mental defects, they dont care about anyone but themselves, they will never make good fathers, the only chance thay have with passing their genes would be a very masochistic naive retarded 3dpd.

>>293072

What about if a mindflayer mindfucks them?

This feels like a blogposting thread but what the hell. I personally believe that monster girls will never be real because it would make our lives too easy, which would defeat the purpose of our very existence as human beings. I believe this world exists to challenge us to grow spiritually, which we do by experiencing this life the way it is. There are other reasons I think our lives will stay this way but that's the only one that matters to us.

>>292996

>one of us gets into power

That's not going to happen unless that person has been subverted or after a race war, so I wouldn't worry about that too much.

>>293001

In my opinion "the weaker sex" isn't far from the truth where women are concerned. A woman who cares about something other than their social reputation is 1 in a thousand at least.

>>293032

No offense but you sound like an edgy fuckwad. Have you considered not being an edgy fuckwad?

>I'm pretty sure there's plenty of anons like me who have similar thoughts.

I'm pretty sure some of them have also seen Death Note. Spoiler alert, it doesn't work out.

>>293044 is correct about sociopaths by the way. Forget about KCanon, sociopaths and the like don't have any semblance of spirit so they certainly wouldn't produce spirit energy. He's wrong about horse pussy though

>>293052

You misunderstand. Sociopaths are basically an outward expression of those spiritless people. Most of them fill the background, so to speak. They can experience emotion, but only those concerned with self-service. There's nothing to them beyond their material lives, their only guide is their upbringing. Monster girls would ignore them at best and those with heightened sensibilities would likely be repulsed by them.

Of course there are some people who are spirited but also act out as sociopaths and the like, they certainly have problems but they can be fixed. Spiritless people on the other hand will never change so there's really no point sparing any thoughts about them.

As for those who are spirited, it doesn't necessarily say anything about the kind of people they are. The spiritually immature can become bogged down by physical life and resemble the spiritless people. If "high-quality spirit" is taken to mean those who are spiritually mature, I would again agree with >>293044 and say that those people would not seek to disrupt their fellow man in such a way. Much more likely that a spiritless person would (attempt to) fill that role.

By the way, none of what I wrote above really matters because it doesn't really affect us that much and if it does, then it's all part of the learning experience that life is. There's no point in hating the spiritless either, they're just there.

>>292855

>I don't see why the DL would have a "special" bond that allowed disagreements between the married couple and restricted all other relationships from having those same spats.

As I said, the DL's relationship is not typical compared to other monsters, due to the circumstances that lead up to it, and the properties of the DL's husband. It's purely speculation upon my part, but it may be possible that he's not affected by demonic energy in the same way other men are due to the chief god's blessings.

>To put it as simply as possible: she desired to protect the kingdom because Elt was in it. When she monsterized, that goal changed to just protecting Elt.

So, yes then?

>Monsterization freed her from, to put it in poetic terms, the prison of her own mind.

Was it necessary to do that through monsterization though? Couldn't she go through those issues at her own pace and learn how to deal with them in a healthy manner? She may have even developed feelings of romantic and companionate love with someone who had something in common with her or helped her go through her problems.

Unlike the other Fallen Maidens, Amanomiya had no previous background with Elt, so there wouldn't been any chemistry between them that would make it believable that she became a monster for Elt's sake. The profile only describes her conversion for the sake of sex, not the man having sex, or for the sake of being free. I'm skeptical about the "prison" due to how it appears to be retroactive reflection upon her life as a horny monster, rather than a revelation of her life.

>Well that'd be a lot more difficult.

You get what I mean then? In a scenario where monster girls exist as we know them, I really can't reasonably make certain life choices that would be able to otherwise. Granted, I could also make some life choices that I couldn't before in such a scenario as well, but most of them are focused on sex, so I can't be sure the amount of options I gain would be as large as the options I loose.

>They can, just like any other sentient creature. Heck most MG's values change when they get a husband.

Okay, so can you name an example besides the change of perspective of a man from a fucktoy to husband? Like, I dunno, the desire for education on matters unrelated to sex or something like that?

>Bandits and sex slavers have abandoned their criminal lifestyles out of love for their MG wives. MGs hate human suffering, and their husbands love them

But if the monster genuinely loves them too, why don't they just accept it if he can't be convinced otherwise? If monster girls disliked human suffering, why do monster girls choose to be with criminals at all? Heck, why would a criminal be interested in a long-term relationship with a monster girl if they were against what the criminal was for? Sex is the only thing that really matters to a monster girl, but don't worry, mamono mana is sure to limit the freedom of choice that the criminal has, so everything's fine, right?

>For one, the emotion of love is tied to the emotion of lust for them, so they literally can't feel love for a man without also feeling lust, which is why they rape in the first place.

And this is okay in what way again?

>MGs don't have those problems, their #1 priority is and always will be their husbands.

And why does it have to be that way? Can't they be invested in things that could hold more priority than love sometimes? You've said it before, monster girls do have other priorities than just being with their husbands and fucking, so why can't those hold more focus sometimes. Now I'm not saying that during those moments that their relationship will no longer be a concern for them, but why should love be always number one priority?

>You have your entire lives to get to know each other, no need to rush it.

You can say the same thing to a person recently thrown into prison concerning the relationship between them and their prison bars.

>You could say love in humans is just being compelled by chemicals.

Sure, but we can choose how to react to those feelings of love and choose what to do with them. We have the capability to not act on those feelings and those feelings may subside if a person chooses not to act on them. Do a lot of people do act on them? Yeah, they do, but they don't necessarily have to. Monster girls don't really have that luxury, they can't choose not to be with men. And as I said before, the one monster that could make that choice, the Dragon, becomes a Zombie Dragon as punishment.

>>292926

We go innawoods. If society won't recognize our love, we won't recognize society.

>>292996

I'd certainly escape if there was even a slightly better chance of finding the love I need on the other side.

>>293077

>No offense but you sound like an edgy fuckwad. Have you considered not being an edgy fuckwad?

Kinda hard when every week there's something that disgusts me just a little more. Also, what exactly is wrong with wanting to get rid of people who ruin societies? Who push the idea that family and love is something to be abhorred?

Wouldn't you protect your family from those who try to harm them? Or are you one of those "if you kill your enemies, they win" faggots?

>>292993

But at the same time, not having looks won't keep you from getting a match. dress well, have a bit of sensible humor, and try to pick up on a bit of charm and you can do well

>>293130

>a man has value for simply existing.

I do not like that.

>>293132

Why do you not like that?

>>293145

Probably for the same reasons we don't appreciate 3dpds having "value" for simply existing.

>>293145

some people are simply worthless. and changing that is too good for them.

>>293132

>>293147

Women who can breed follow in the "they have value for existing" category for most of society anyways.

>>293146

>>293147

Simply because one has a starting intrinsic value doesn't mean that it's not possible for individuals to be worthless.

Womens childbearing ability might give them value for existing, but it's possible for individual women to stack up negative traits to completely negate that inborn advantage.

>>293132

>>293147

Think of it like racial bonuses in an rpg. Monster girls have some nice stat bonuses, while humans get spirit energy. You still have everything else that makes up your character, though.

>>293154

>an RPG in MGE

This sounds like softcore FATAL

"Monsters get what is basically superpowers an near invulnerability, but humans get some vague mana that's only useful to monsters but human woman don't have access to it" that sounds stupidly imbalanced against humans. like 2e DnD

>>293106

>>293178

>As I explained above, this is what ensures MGs have at least affection for their partners and not just use them as "fucktoys".

But why have lust inherently tied with love? If you really wanted to have monsters love humans, and had to "program" them to do so, why not have them just be loving and comforting, with lust and sex just being a result of that relationship? Why not just give a man the opportunity to go into the relationship at his own pace instead of forcing him to through rape? Or you could give them full freedom of thought and free will, but I'm just going to stop before someone starts whining about 3dpd

> I meant "priority" as in "when forced to decide between her husband and anything else, she will choose her husband"…It's not like their husband and marriage is always the only thing on their minds.

No, I have gotten that point as you have brought it up before, but I'm questioning why "she will choose her husband" all the time, even disregarding sex. Depending on the situation, why not allow her to pick something else other than her husband? How about this scenario:

A minotaur is working at the lumber mill and work is behind schedule. She can stay and finish the work, but her husband has gotten tickets to a show in town.

She could continue working and disappoint her husband, but if they do have a loving and understanding relationship, he should be able to understand.

>Monster girls can give up on a prospective partner

Never really seen that, and the entry on Lizardmen seems to contradict that statement. "they would request marriage on the spot, as they have a habit of trying to make a husband of strong men who defeat them in battle. If one where to refuse, then they’d probably just keep chasing after him and bugging him for a long time until he agreed. If one were to still refuse even after that, then they’d get sick of waiting and move into action."

> even if she forces herself on you it's not like you're 100% game-overed for most types of MGs anyway. In the end, it's up to you whether or not you choose to return their affections.

I'm pretty sure you're expecting me to bring up mamono mana, so I won't bother you with reading any more text you have read before.

>Depends on what you mean by "be" with men.

They have the strong urge to be with men, yada yada.

I feel bad that I am reiterating a lot of the same points.

I brought this up in the paladin thread, but what would happen if the guy just didn't like the MG that's going after him? She can rape him all she wants but what if the guy just doesn't like her and refuses to return the feeling. Before a point was brought up that few guys would turn down a 10/10 girl swooning after them; while true that few would, what if the personalities are just incomapatible or she's into stuff he isn't (bondage, femdom, etc.) and the guy is majorly turned off by that.

>>293181

I suspect a monster would try to change herself to make her be more like the type of girl he would want if she really liked the guy. If it's really a lost cause I suspect she'd lose interest.

My personal belief is that monsters can smell how comparable they are with a guy based on his spirit energy, so monsters just aren't attracted to incompatible people in the first place.

>>293157

Stealth RPG. You start out as a monster, the game is set up with assimilationist level design kind of like the cities from Assassin's Creed 2 but with more detail, like enterable buildings and such. Your goal is to monsterize the city and you can go about doing that in different ways per each city. Kind of like a slightly larger scale HITMAN type deal.

>>293181

Yeah. Thats an issue with how KC handles material, yet another example of we hear about it but never actually get to see it happen. Realistically no guy is going to ever want to be with someone who raped him, and predatory monster instinct isnt going to always lead a monster to the perfect guy for her.

>>293185

Realistically if both parties magically agreed and the guy was like "well she touched my dick so now I gotta marry (least shes actually kind of cute)" change to accomodate each other would occur. The whole debate really calls into question how devoted a monster would be to someone and to what lengths one would realistically go to get a man no matter what.

>>293185

What if it was a heat of the monemt kind of thing though? The guy walks innawoods alone and MG takes opportunity and kidnaps him, only to find out the guy disliked that and resents her for it.

Most of the stories shows guys being strangely ok with being kidnapped and thinking of family and friends as an after thought. I know why write fags do this but whatever

>>293188

This brings up other things as well. In some stories it shows MGs getting away with shit like rape and literal kidnapping with no backlash. That's just stupid law wise, they basically are immune to certain crimes and everything they do isn't their fault or whatever.

In the writefag thread, a guy posted a story about MGs basically getting away with kidnapping and domestic assult. Grimdark yes, but it's a good piece of work.

>>293186

>>293188

I have mentioned this point in my walls of text, but I'll reiterate it here since this discussion is a bit different.

The reason monster girls can usually bag the guy they rape in MGE is due to mamono mana being transferred into the man during sex with a monster. This does lead the man to think more like a monster girl, whether he wants to or not, leading to him to want to be with the monster girl even though she forced him to have sex with her.

This point is missing from a lot of writefag stories, even though a lot of the other elements of mamono mana are still incorporated.

So what's the deal with spirit energy? Is it something like having good genetics for sports or something? Can someone heighten or lower their spirit energy levels somehow?

What if someone found a way to manufacture spirit energy out of whatever magical stuff in some setting? What could be an ethical way to use it?

>>293293

http://monstergirlencyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Spirit_Energy

>>293263

So from what you say, the guy basically gets brainwashed into loving the MG? That's not love in my book.

>293190 Mostly because most guys don't really mind suddenly having a hot, loving, loyal wife out of nowhere. One that doesn't get fat, get sagging boobs, ugly streched skin after child birth, no wrinkly skin and no nagging and constant passive-aggressive mind-manipulation games.

>293308

You don't know what love is though.

>>293309

What?

Anyways, if the guy didn't like her and then suddenly he does because of magical bullshit, then it's not real love. Love is when a person finds his or her other half, and forcing someone to fit to them isn't real love.

>>293309

I'm just going to go on a limb and guess that all the information you get on women comes from this board or /rk9/. Well, in actually not all women are scumbags you idiot. Everyone on this board must have never had a good conversation with a woman before, because you guys and women sounds a lot like /pol/ and every race that isn't white.

>"women are evil manipulators who can't be trusted"

>"jews are evil manipulators that can't be trusted"

>"All women want is your money"

>"All niggers want is your money"

>>293311

Oh there are some decent women. Some is the key word here. The rest have been corrupted and ruined by modern society, media, marxism in education, etc. Most range from vapidly hollow to downright manipulative.

>>293314

Yes, but they way everyone autisticly spews "all women are evil" makes it sound like they think the opposite sex is irredeemable.

>>293317

It's still be better to monsterize the lot of them. The worst ones get incinerated since they'll probably be matango or something horrible.

>>293319

What if a few of the nice ones don't want to be though? Will it be forced on them?

>>293311

You're projecting very hardcore there, are you by any chance a fat ugly woman who feels threatened by imaginery statements? Are you actually a nigger or a jew? Because that would explain your knee-jerk mentioning of pol.

Here's a tip:

Read my post again, TRY to switch on your brain and comprehend it, then reply. If you can't do any of this, you shouldn't be on this board, or write anything at all on the internet. It's clear that you live in your own fantasy world and not actually listening what people are saying.

>>293323

Leave the offer open for them. Explain all the benefits it'll give them.

>>293325

I am none of those things, all I am is tired of people giving opinions on things they barely understand. I bring up /pol/ to show the similarities between these two boards in how they denounce others. Maybe you should open your eyes and read, not just skim.

Well I guess I'm a nigger but that's beside the point

>>293326

Autism and loneliness are powerful. Even more so when combined. We could pull it off but it'd take pain staking effort just to design and successfully make an android. Making an artificial human with animal/monster features is a whole other ballgame.

>>293328

Do not assume we lack understanding on these matters. One of the reasons I am here is because of my own understanding. I also find it ironic how you get onto us for giving opinions on "things we dont understand" when if you really understood us you wouldn't have spoken in such a manner.

>>293336

There's always magic. And with magic, belief begets reality

>>293338

That's the thing though, I've been on this board near daily for about a year now, and all I've seen is you guys talking about women like pol talks about niggers and Jews. I do not know; but based on what I've seen, I've drawn conclusions.

>>292950

You also forget the the longer they spend their their mate, the more desirable his spirit grows. Dumping one man for another is akin to tearing down house just to build a new tool shed and try to then add onto it until you got another house.

>>293338

Meme magic, Ammit magic, or KEK magic?

>>293358

Magic is magic, no matter what paradigm you use. But techibically, this is all chaos magic.

>>293364

Ah, the things we do for love.

>>293178

>its hard to keep these replies brief.

I feel you. If my replies seem curt or poorly-worded it's because I'm chopping out whole blocks to keep it all in one post.

>And no material to suggest that other MGs can either, to be fair.

Fair enough, I guess it's one of those things relegated to everyone's headcanon really.

>What do you make of it?

To me, it looks a lot like Wilmarina never even wanted to become a hero in the first place. Taking what I know about KC and his canon, I'd guess her "goal" of being a hero was just something the people around her pushed onto her since childhood to suit their own needs, not theirs.

>And is the quick and easy route of monsterization really preferable?

Yes. Severe mental trauma isn't something you can usually cure. The closest thing is learning to live with it. However, thanks to becoming an inari, she's actually cured. Not to mention her own personal ability has grown to the point where she can manipulate the ambient mana of the entirety of Lescastie and has a city-state's worth of allies backing her up.

Above all else, she's happy. Elt actually asks a similar question to what you're asking right now, but she brushes it off because she's happier than she's ever been in her life. Who am I to say "no, you're not really happy!"

>Err, how do you exactly rationalize these two concepts?

MG's can have casual sex. Heck it's a necessity for their early life before they obtain a steady husband. They still love their ONSs enough to treat them right, but that doesn't mean auto-marriage.

>You forget how that magical energy they produce during sex makes them more interested in having sex.

True, but it's obviously not to the point where they can't focus on anything else. Druella is the 4th Lilim with enough mana to spare and she was interested enough to conquer the Order's strongest city.

>I'm pretty sure I could figure something out without resorting to having sex with a monster girl.

I'm skeptical as to whether spells that extend lifespan by hundreds of years or allow someone to live underwater would be available to a very large portion of people even if they existed. But we don't know enough about magic to say for sure, so this is probably another "headcanon" area.

>would they really have the occasions or interests to change their values, like a non-sex related discussion?

Wilmarina is stated to have gotten better at swordsmanship since she monsterized, and Danukis are unparalleled in financial matters. They're supposed to be ideal waifus, and an intellectually-bereft cumsock isn't an ideal waifu.

Also that doujin is an h-doujin, not a world guide, and Wonderland is weird even by MGE standards. It's not a good reflection of average life in KCanon.

>KC would seem to disagree with you

The exact words were " MGs will make them indulge into themselves so they can't think such vicious thoughts". No reference to mana. I think I may have made an error actually, it might be that the sex is just so good that criminals just get pussy-whipped into good citizens.

>But why have lust inherently tied with love?

Why is it "lust into love" instead of "love into lust"? Probably because the DL is a succubus, a creature of lust incarnate.

>Depending on the situation, why not allow her to pick something else other than her husband?

In your scenario, I don't think anyone, including her husband, would raise an eyebrow if the minotaur decided to stay behind. But it's that line of thinking that leads to major problems.

Say instead of that instead of one day it's six months. Say Mrs. Minotaur could get a promotion if she gives her boss a blowjob every once in a while. That's how marriages fail.

>Never really seen that

Someone on KC's Q&A asked what would happen if a prospective husband alped. His answer was that they'd give up.

>I'm pretty sure you're expecting me to bring up mamono mana

I mean, if she has sex with you enough to incubize you, then yes your mind is influenced by that. But for a few rapes the only way mamono mana would influence you is if the MG used a charm spell of some sort, and not all MGs can do that.

>They have the strong urge to be with men

They love human men, love sex, and need spirit energy. But they can still choose not to be with men.

>>293375

> they can still choose not to be with men.

Incorrect, eventually monstergirls will get the urge to stay with men, even if they are dykes, they will even share the same man to father their kids.

>>293375

>I feel you. If my replies seem curt or poorly-worded it's because I'm chopping out whole blocks to keep it all in one post.

Perhaps if we would be forced to make more than one post with our response, just sage the following posts? I made the mistake of not doing that last time, but I don't plan on doing it again.

I think you guys fail to realize unconditional romantic love isn't real for good reason. In any given relationship, standards must be held and sacrifices made. While I would make it so monstergirls are instinctively loyal to their partners, making the love unconditional is pants-on-head-retarded. You're also forgetting that a man's love for a woman isn't unconditional either, albeit it comes with fewer and more reasonable conditions (i.e. don't be a bitch, etc.). Which, on the level of personality, is the bulk of what I ask from women, loyalty and reasonable conditions for love.

And the fact that many women, largely as a result of current-year-culture, can't meet this is why many of us are here on /monster/. It's also why a group you'd expect to be composed of basement-dwelling fetishists are actually mostly well-adjusted men, some of us being outright successful and/or former Chads, who fantasize about loyal and loving partners and families.

>>293412

Am I the only one on this board that isn't so cynical of relationships with women? Please let be wrong on this point.

Men are just as capable as women of being demanding and mean-spirited. When it comes to differences in how people act, there is more differences within a given sex than there is between the different sexes, as out of the 23 chromosomes that make up a human, only one determines sex.

And don't you think that if we really were as well adjusted as you say we are that we'd be attracted to abnormal women that want to rape us, even if they also do love us? I'm not going to pretend that this is normal, but I don't think we're directly harming anyone with this either, so there's not really a problem. Women have fantasies about relationships too.

>>293427

The thing is women know how to give in a relationship. They don't know how to take. So they don't tell the guy what they want, because 'muh pride, muh feminity, [insert complete bullshit reason like 'I'm too shy' here]'. As a result, the guy doesn't know what she wants and she's not getting what she wants. And the relationship goes south fast. Obviously, I'm talking about things I'll never understand, so this is just guesswork. And very generalized, so pls no bully

That's why I like monsters. The monster's on the outside, so you know what they want and they'll gladly tell you if you don't. And as for what they want…..dunno. Could be love, could be consensual sex in missionary just for the purpose of conceiving kids, depends on your headcanon.

There's something that came up un the paladin thread that I'd like to ask. It's dangerousely close to breaking some rules but I guess it might be okay in this thread.

>>292886

>>292889

I wonder if you could really say thi in all cases. Let's say you get somehow involved with one of the more monster girls. Cu/Cat Sith, Matango or Alp for example. Would you really be ok with this? Or if you get claimed by some other well meaning girl. She truly loves you and would be a great wife but you wanted to be with some other girl and the chances of being with that one are now nil. Could your really be happy in that case?

>>292899 (OP)

Semen is gross and I don't want it in my waifus mouth.

Proper sex only, no degeneracy like blowjobs or anal.

>>293459

>puritan /monster/

Oh goodness. This is gonna be fun

i will agree with you on anal though. No idea why anyone would want to do that

How about this. Monstergirls appear in our world. But its not MGE monstergirls. Its MGQ monstergirls. So there are plenty of real monsters, NOPE-materials, but waifus are still there. What would you do? And what do you think will happen?

>>293454

>I wonder if you could really say thi in all cases. Let's say you get somehow involved with one of the more monster girls. Cu/Cat Sith, Matango or Alp for example. Would you really be ok with this? Or if you get claimed by some other well meaning girl. She truly loves you and would be a great wife but you wanted to be with some other girl and the chances of being with that one are now nil. Could your really be happy in that case?

It's MGE we are talking here. Often you won't get a choice.

It really depends on monstergirl. Cu/Cat Sith will be very upset but will never force you to do anything. Matangos and Mindflayers will completely brainwash you into their personal fucktoy. Ushi-onis, hell-hounds, manticores and other very dominant monsters will try to dominate you and make you sex-addicted to them. If you manage to avoid this then you can possibly escape. If not you will be fine but not completly happy. Various demons will probably expertly seduce you and keep you very dependant. You will be kinda happy, but not perfectly. They wont let you go either. And escaping will be extremely hard if not impossible. Still they probably can let go if faced with extreme resistance. And that will require very strong will.

Alps are special case. You will never realise someone is Alp unless you close to them. Alps basically turn into your perfect woman from a man you were friends with. So if it happens, and you don't love them, you can leave. But it is very unlikely that you would want to do so.

Personally I would resist and look for one true love. I would probably look for Zipangu monstergirls. There are plenty of them for every taste and they are much less aggressive and desperate for dick.

>>292942

>You'll never get the girl by just being nice, or being yourself. You have to produce value.

Yes, in our world men must produce value to attract females, but in the old days society implicitly and explicitly socialized women to suppress their hypergamy instinct. Thus, before degeneracy, post-modernism, and our favorite (((tribe))) ruined everything you really could get a girl by being nice or being yourself (as she was taught to value those things over the things her hypergamy instructs her to seek like money, status, etc and was socially shamed and ostracized if she gave in and slept around on her BF/divorced her hubby for a "better" model).

The main disconnect from those days and our own is that, despite everything having been changed, we men are still being socialized as though the shit from the 1960's and onwards never happened. It has now become a cruel shit test. Only men who see through the con and treat 3dpd women like shit eating whores will get laid. Those who fail to shake off the indoctrination and act "nice" will be cucked by those who did.

Problem is most of us still have a conscience and don't really want a relationship where the only way the woman will respect you and stay loyal to you is if you treat her as if she is a whore and act as though you are her iron-fisted pimp (with the constant verbal and occasional physical abuse that necessarily entails). Hence, monstergirls, where being nice keeps her loyal and treating her like shit means she drops you like a rock. It's a subconscious yearning for a return to sanity and morality in the end. Ironic, as this all got started as essentially a form of degenerate porno…

>>293477

>MGQ monsters

Supposing both that it's an immediate "suddenly these monsters are everywhere" and that you mean every monster, angel, chimera, and what have you, nothing good. Thousands will probably die simply from being eaten by vore monsters, and those who don't have a really good chance of being kidnapped and literally raped until they die due to magic helplessness. Depending on the sheer number of each species that is being brought into our world, they would either need to be rounded up and herded off toward some remote preserve to be studied or they could literally cause the world to come to screeching halt as society loses too many people to continue functioning in any meaningful manner.

Now that I think about it, this is probably the reason that MGE is the standard for canon on this board, as everything in MGQ either sees you as "food" or food and will not hesitate to end your life for their own ends. Maybe you get lucky and get an angel who will keep you immortal while breaking your mind to the point of brain death. At least MGE monsters want you as a husband to have children and live a nice life with.

>>293480

I really think the cause of this is the major sexuality revolution that's been going on since the 60s or so. You have this society that values intimacy and privacy and liberty suddenly being turned on its head, so now sexuality is the main drive in a relationship. You have these apps like Tinder that only contribute to a hookup culture and make sexuality a more socially acceptable thing day by day, not even speaking about liberals and Paladykes who make it a daily argument.

The natural consequence of all of that is that where love and intimacy were the acceptable part of your relationship to show and sexuality was the taboo thing to not speak about in public, those two are now reversed. This also means that you are producing generations of people who are interested in the taboo simply because it is. That's also my theory on how this whole /monster/ thing came about, because we're just a bunch of people who are interested in the intimacy underlying the sexuality of a monstergirl rather than the sexuality underlying the intimacy in a 3DPD.

>>293477

That is kinda what I meant. Not wanting to be with the girl that choose you could happen.

>>293326

>>293336

I'm a firm believer that the waifu age will happen within our lifetimes, one way or another. If it's not literally magic, it will be science magic, and if it's not science magic, it will be literal science. It will either Happen™ because of sheer chaos magic and ancient god worship, it will happen as a consequence of diddling with the fabric of reality with the LHC or something, or it will happen in a new age of designer waifus created with virtual intelligence and biologically capable bodies. The best part about these options is that even though the first two are pure happenstance, the last one is a real, visible goal that isn't even too far away. As far as I've seen the only real limiter to our ability to create a virtually thinking mind is that no hardware can match the processing speed and storage vs size of the human brain, and even that's becoming more and more obtainable every year. Beyond that it's really a matter of replicating a human mind but with the caveats that come with being a monstergirl, which are pretty simple, and then creating a body that works in a physical sense. You probably won't get a manticore that can actually fly due to how wings biologically work but something like a catgirl is perfect and even inevitable.

>>293480

>the old days

Nigga what? Normalfags fucking around and cheating on each other has always been a thing, even in times when the punishment for such actions was draconic. The only way you'd be sure those "values" are safe would be some mudslime-like, third world society. Even then, men can freely sleep around because, sadly, that's how people act.

>>293477

The only thing you have to do to escape the more dominant ones it's to never say "I love you" or instead say "I hate you"

>>293612

This is a pretty good summary of the case. The alp was never "on the market" in the first place, a mamono would only ever get a small and unsatisfying snack from him. As for the target man, alps usually end up with childhood friends or someone they've known a long time, so they'd probably be considered taken already.

>>293488

>or it will happen in a new age of designer waifus created with virtual intelligence and biologically capable bodies.

Honestly really tempted to learn some programming languages, get up to speed on cutting edge statistical techniques, and contribute to this myself.

>>293477

>Alps basically turn into your perfect woman from a man you were friends with. So if it happens, and you don't love them, you can leave. But it is very unlikely that you would want to do so.

I'd really miss my dude friend and I'd be mad at the alp for taking him away, even though it's the "same" person.

>>293758

>I'd really miss my dude friend and I'd be mad at the alp for taking him away, even though it's the "same" person.

Man. After reading this, I kinda like Alps more. A waifu that's also a bro sounds kinda neat.

>>293612

But hold on does the alp still keeps its personality? If a manly man gets exposed to mamono mana does he still act like a jock or did the mamono mana erase his preexisting personality and just replace it with lust for cock.

Because if that were not true then maybe the Alp could act as an equal to man, because the Alp could still act like he once was A manly man, not a cock sleeve but a bro. The Alp would have the insight on what a man wants not just sexually but emotionally, the Alp knows what a man wants more then any other monster girl, because the Alp WAS a man. But the question is would males be attracted to an Alp with a ''Male personality".

>>293760

It's not mamono mana primarily that transforms an alp. An alp is born with a limited amount of male spirit energy and can't make any more like an actual man does. When it runs out, the alp's body is forced to take spirit energy from their surroundings like a woman does, and having no defense against it corrupts immediately. If the alp behaves like a "manly man" they're just going to burn through that limited amount of spirit energy faster. Their basic personality would not change, however, as you have theorized. And men of culture are attracted to tomboys all the time, my friend.

>>293815

Not really. Again, going from MGE, you are right in the sense that the alp can't make more spirit energy like a regular man does. However, it's not because they're born with limited mana. Rather, it's because their wish to either be with a guy, or be a woman, causes them to absorb the demonic energy. While doing so would change regular men into incubi, their wish as a fag or tranny makes them use that demonic energy to forcibly stop spirit energy production. Then, because there's no spirit energy, the demonic energy makes them an alp. And, as everyone knows, demonic energy IS mamono mana.

As for the personality/attitude, it all depends on the alp itself. Some might change their attitude to something girly and sex-hungry like a succubus. Others may keep the "male personality". However, what's not disputed is that because they've become monsters, they're still gonna feel hunger for men. How much that hunger affects their attitude changes from alp to alp.

>>293375

>I'd guess her "goal" of being a hero was just something the people around her pushed onto her since childhood to suit their own needs, not theirs.

I guess that's one way to think of it, but I would also think that goal may have become internalized in her as well due to how she was raised. Parents do have a large amount of influence on what manners and beliefs their children adopt. I mean, as a hypothetical example, the child of Catholic parents is probably not going to adopt Hinduism, unless they preform some major soul searching or something.

>Severe mental trauma isn't something you can usually cure. The closest thing is learning to live with it. However, thanks to becoming an inari, she's actually cured.

I know this sounds horrible to say, but wouldn't it be better if she wasn't cured though? That mental trauma was something that made her who she was, but its effectively gone now that she's a monster. If she had received proper support/therapy, she could have come out a stronger person than she was before, which may have been possible through support from the people of the Order. Granted, if she had not gone through the trauma at all, that would be ideal, but what can you do?

>Who am I to say "no, you're not really happy!"

I guess you're right in that sense in that one person really can not dictate another's happiness, but one can also see some lost potential as well in that regard. There are some prostitutes that enjoy their lives, due to the freedom and empowerment that it apparently allows, but I am pretty sure the both of us can agree that they could be living more satisfactory lives as well.

>MG's can have casual sex. Heck it's a necessity for their early life before they obtain a steady husband.

I would like a source on that, especially with how weird that concept is if there's nothing else to go with it and I have not heard it at all during my time with MGE. If you're correct, does that mean that the monster mama takes their daughter to local guys, perhaps ones already married if no singles are available, in order to give the daughter her fill of spirit energy? Or do daughters have casual incestuous sex with their father? What about how demonic energy poured into a man makes them unappealing to monsters other than their partner, unless a Bicorn is involved?

>Druella is the 4th Lilim with enough mana to spare and she was interested enough to conquer the Order's strongest city.

Firstly, what do you mean "with enough mana to spare"? I'm not too clear on that.

Secondly, Druella conquered Lescatie due to a desire to have monsters have sex with men, so you can't really disprove that monsters don't focus on other things than sex with that example, especially since it seems like her invasion was just the monster girl equivalent of "more dakka" in terms of strategy.

>Wilmarina is stated to have gotten better at swordsmanship since she monsterized, and Danukis are unparalleled in financial matters.

Okay, so why would Wilmarina ever use a sword again though? The only situation I can think of is if a warrior somehow managed to get past all other monsters and Wilmarina used a demonic silver sword, which would result in the warrior lying there until another monster dealt with them. Other than that, why would she bother with literal swordplay?

You also forget how Danukis are such shrewd businessmen because of the desire for sex, by making a man they desire as a husband in to their indentured servant, and restructuring the economy to allow a more hedonistic lifestyle.

>Also that doujin is an h-doujin, not a world guide

Couldn't it be both? I mean, h-doujin are not incapable of providing story and world building, even if they typically don't. It is also called "Monstergirl Encyclopeida Damage Report", so we can gleam that these events are happening in the world.

>Wonderland is weird even by MGE standards

That's more in line with how the world works rather than the monsters themselves, or at least when it comes to libido. There's no indication that monsters are more or less lustful in Wonderland when compared to others, but are more adept at working with the bizarre world itself.

>The exact words were " MGs will make them indulge into themselves so they can't think such vicious thoughts". No reference to mana.

Monsters girls release mamono mana into their partner when they have sex, and as established, mamono mana does influence thought patterns. When the monster girl lets a man "indulge into themselves", mamono mana causes the man to change who he is, and that includes the inability to preform certain actions. It doesn't say "they choose not to think such vicious thoughts", it says "they can't think such vicious thoughts".

>>294032

>Probably because the DL is a succubus, a creature of lust incarnate.

Then why not replace the Demon Lord? Why not find a monster that is sympathetic to humans and has a better idea of how relationships work than just gratuitous sex, put her on the throne, and let them tweak monster girls so that they don't have to be so sex crazed? Sure, the currently Demon Lord probably wouldn't like the proposition, and it would be difficult to find the perfect candidate for that position, but it would lead to monster girls to actually love and care for their partners to begin with, instead of first seeing them as a walking dildo.

How would other factors of monster girls play out, like monsterization and improved physical function? Eh, I have no idea. It would have to be a discussion held with whoever would take the position.

>In your scenario, I don't think anyone, including her husband, would raise an eyebrow if the minotaur decided to stay behind. But it's that line of thinking that leads to major problems.

You do know there's a difference between a woman inconveniencing her husband and cuckoldry, right? They are not the same line of thinking.

Besides, you didn't really acknowledge the point I was making with the scenario: why not allow the monster girl to choose to put some things over her husband if these things do not destabilize the relationship?

>His answer was that they'd give up.

He also said that they tend to know if a person was going to alp, so its not like the alp-to-be would really be cared about anyway.

>But for a few rapes the only way mamono mana would influence you is if the MG used a charm spell of some sort, and not all MGs can do that.

Sure, but the monsters that can't literally charm the pants off of you typically have the ability to keep you around anyway, like the hellhound, manticore, or ushi-oni. Combine that with the determination that monsters have towards having sex, no man is likely to get away from any monster girl with only "a few rapes" unless they decide to kill the monster.

>they can still choose not to be with men.

What >>293378 said, but I am also going to supplement his point by bringing up the Zombie Dragon, the consequence of the most strong-willed monster girls choosing not to have sex.

>>293434

>Th0ey don't know how to take.

That is more a relationship problem than a problem with women, as men can do that too. If your companion, not necessarily even a lover, doesn't seem to be talking to you about what they want, why not ask them, open a conversation? And about why they don't, well, its often because they don't want to inconvenience you. Both sexes often don't tell the people they care about the problems they have, as they feel like they would be a burden on them and make them dislike them. They don't say their problems because they love you, even though it would be better to do so.

>>293439

>I want the unobtainable: a romantic partner who I can be 100% sure will not stab me in the back for their own gain.

I guess I understand that. Even though I realize that women do have their own goals and aspirations, a romantic partner that is devoted to me completely is a fantasy too sweet to disregard so easily. It's something I don't ever expect to really happen, but there is that slight hope too.

>>293483

>That's also my theory on how this whole /monster/ thing came about, because we're just a bunch of people who are interested in the intimacy underlying the sexuality of a monstergirl rather than the sexuality underlying the intimacy in a 3DPD.

You may be right that monster girls do have an intimacy beneath their sexuality, but their sexuality is a rather large part of them still, so I can't say that monster girls are a method of pushing back against that revolution. If they really were pushing against that, they really would be only interested in sex for the purpose of conceiving children.

>>293488

>Beyond that it's really a matter of replicating a human mind but with the caveats that come with being a monstergirl

I feel like any machine that is given a human level of knowledge and understanding would end up having an identity crisis. I mean, think about it. If we do create waifus with the understanding that is comparable to humans, they may just think "Why should I feel affection to this person?" Any caveats made to prevent that results in a machine not comparable to the human mind, paradoxically enough.

>>293859

I'd point out that your verbal separation of them from "regular" men is telling. In a world where they are surrounded by a wide variety of magical seductresses, only a man with a fundamental built-in flaw would have a desire to give up their dick. Also in evidence that the flaw is fundamental is that the desire is usually subconscious. A weekend drag queen or tumblr transtrender isn't going to alp no matter how much they fag it up.

>>293439

Hypergamy is about more than just socio-economic status. For instance, say a girl marries a super rich Beta Male simp hipster dude. He's got the dosh and the status yeah, but he lacks that "Alpha" attitude she subconsciously expects from a man of that high a status and over time she will come to resent him for this fact.

The janitor on the other hand? He's poor as fuck but damn does he got that "Alpha" personality (doesn't hurt that he's probably younger than her as well). Thus, the predictable paradigm emerges (i.e. Alpha Fucks, Beta Bucks) in spite of the other predictors. In many cases anon, attitude/personality>factual status for women. It's how they evolved.

It''s not their fault that the genes for ferocity, dominance, and strength got separated from the ones responsible for intellect and good business acumen over the millennia. In the modern world the latter are more important, but in ancient times the former were more highly prized. Women are, psycho-sexually, still stuck in the stone age. Once you swallow that black pill things make a lot more sense.

>>294032

> I would also think that goal may have become internalized in her as well due to how she was raised.

Yeah that's what I thought too, I just failed to get it across because space saving issues. It's a similar story to Mimiru's, although less severe than hers.

>I know this sounds horrible to say, but wouldn't it be better if she wasn't cured though?

I can see where you coming from, but I swear I've made this point before. In MGE, monsterized girls explicitly keep their memories and personality, it's their thought patterns and values that change. So Koyoi kept who she was in the most literal sense.

>I am pretty sure the both of us can agree that they could be living more satisfactory lives as well.

Objectively? I don't think Koyoi could've gotten off any better. She has extremely heightened magical ability, higher social standing, a solid network of interpersonal connections through her harem-mates, Elt, and Druella, and the default benefits of becoming a monster.

>I would like a source on that, especially with how weird that concept is if there's nothing else to go with it and I have not heard it at all during my time with MGE.

I don't have anything explicit, and I could be wrong on this myself. I'll just lay out what led me to this conclusion.

If you look at each monster profile, some monsters are able to subsist on things like meat or vegetables, like regular creatures. Other MGs just have "spirit energy" or even just "semen" listed as their diet.

It's stated in the MGE that monsters get second-hand spirit energy from their mothers when their young (I don't know how they transfer it exactly). But that's only until the daughter sets off on their own.

So for semen-eating monsters, what else would they subsist on other than one-night-stands once they've flown the nest? Unless they just get married to literally the first guy they meet.

>Firstly, what do you mean "with enough mana to spare"?

I was answering the point that you made where the more DE you have, the more interested you are in having sex, and consequently how that limits other options you can take in your life. Druella is the 4th lilim, so she has shittons of DE, but she still had the mental wherewithal to conquer a city by striking at specific weak points instead of just mindlessly riding a dick or drowning the city in DE.

>Druella conquered Lescatie due to a desire to have monsters have sex with men, so you can't really disprove that monsters don't focus on other things than sex with that example

Can't really argue with that. MGs do have sex as their main focus, because they're all influenced by a ridiculously powerful succubus.

>Okay, so why would Wilmarina ever use a sword again though?

"Rather than decaying, the sword and sorcery skills she cultivated as “Wilmarina the hero” have been beautifully polished and strengthened. Should she receive orders from the lilim she adores, or, in the case that the enemy invades Lescatie (which has been changed into a demon realm) and it becomes necessary to protect "you", she’ll use the full extent of that power to defeat the enemies of the demon realm, and corrupt everyone into lewd monsters the same as herself."

Is what it says on her profile. It makes sense, Druella probably won't stop at just Lescastie, so she sends Wilmarina to execute orders. Also, the Order has a vested interest in taking back their prized city, so Wilmarina fends them off.

>Couldn't it be both? I mean, h-doujin are not incapable of providing story and world building

Not incapable, no. But h-doujins by their very nature hypersexualize the setting (see: Touhou and KanColle). In a setting already as sexualized as MGE, it's not unreasonable that they were literally doing nothing but banging.

>It doesn't say "they choose not to think such vicious thoughts", it says "they can't think such vicious thoughts"

Good point there. You could be right on this.

>Then why not replace the Demon Lord?

The Chief God tried to. But right now it's quite possibly the most powerful DL in history combined with "the strongest of humanity". Also, there's no MGs who actually want to depose her for the reason you're stating. The ones that do actually want to push things in the opposite direction.

>>294152

> it would lead to monster girls to actually love and care for their partners to begin with, instead of first seeing them as a walking dildo.

They do love and care for their partners. All of them do. Arguably it's the entire point of the setting, or at least the biggest difference between MGE and MGQ.

"They treat them just as if they were their own kind, or with even greater love and affection. To them, while human men are their “most delicious food,” at the same time, they are “male breeding partners,” and “dearly loved beings.”

> you didn't really acknowledge the point I was making with the scenario: why not allow the monster girl to choose to put some things over her husband if these things do not destabilize the relationship?

Yeah this was my bad. I made my point rather poorly.

What "destabilizes a relationship" varies wildly between individuals. What is acceptable to one person could be a complete dealbreaker to others.

It's completely impossible to have the MG or their husband make the best decision every single time under every single circumstance. So, by taking the absolute approach of "you husband/wife matters above all else", it cuts off even the possibility of the relationship being destabilized.

>He also said that they tend to know if a person was going to alp, so its not like the alp-to-be would really be cared about anyway.

True, he did also say that MGs have a sense for that thing. But the point remains that it's possible for MGs to give up on a prospective partner.

>Combine that with the determination that monsters have towards having sex, no man is likely to get away from any monster girl with only "a few rapes" unless they decide to kill the monster

Again it's possible for an MG to give up for a partner. They love and adore men more than themselves, so following that logic if a man really doesn't want to be with them, what else would they do but let him go?

>bringing up the Zombie Dragon, the consequence of the most strong-willed monster girls choosing not to have sex

The existence of Dragon Zombie kind of proves my point that it is possible for an MG to be without a man. Dragon Zombie is unique in that she's the only one who will literally come back from the dead to be with a man. Judging by their lore, Ice Queens and Baphomets could probably go several human lifespans worth of time without husbands, possibly forever, and that's just the extreme examples.

>>294152

>>294152

>Objectively? I don't think Koyoi could've gotten off any better. She has extremely heightened magical ability, higher social standing, a solid network of interpersonal connections through her harem-mates, Elt, and Druella, and the default benefits of becoming a monster.

She's the 6./7./8. fiddle slut for some guy who uses her as semen toilet. That's not a high social standing.

>>294162

Let's be fair, she is "harem-mates" with the Queen (even though Druella is the one in charge), so if monster girl politics existed, she would have some clout.

I am going to address all of these points points eventually though.

>>294141

>he lacks that "Alpha" attitude she subconsciously expects from a man of that high a status and over time she will come to resent him for this fact…Women are, psycho-sexually, still stuck in the stone age.

>Implying that there aren't women that like to be dominant

>Implying that a relationship between a man and a woman only works if the man is a burly alpha male and the woman is a submissive female

>Implying there's evidence that supports this nonsense

Quit spouting your pseudo-science. If you're really going to claim that woman's biology leads them to desire certain personality traits from a man, why would they prefer the aggressive alpha when compared to the more caring beta? Think about this from an evolutionary standpoint. Wouldn't a more caring father be better able to raise kids than one that was more aggressive? Even if the caring father dies before the aggressive father, as long as the children are raised properly, the caring father's kids would have been better equipped at dealing with the world around them, making it more likely for the "caring" genes to be passed on. "What about hunting?" Women actually gathered most of the food back then, as eating berries, roots, whatever they got, tended to be in more ample supply. "What about combat?" Well, in a one on one confrontation, an aggressive fighter should be able to surmount an opponent who is not, all other factors being equal. However, in a one on five match, even if the one is aggressive, its likely he will die. Being in a group tends to lead to more success than being alone, and a more caring individual should be able to get others to work with him. That's why humans are described as "social animals".

If all of this is the case, why do aggressive people exist at all? Well, besides the benefits that aggression does allow for people, the human genome is weird. Our individual chromosomes express a lot of traits, so you can't exactly just phase out certain things so easily. We're complex creatures. That, and we hold the belief of the sanctity of human life, which has made it so we are able to resist natural selection for the most part.

Besides, if you really believed that women were so primitive in terms of relationships, why would you bother with anything close to them, fiction or not? Why not hook up with a guy that had gotten an "intelligence gene"? That way you could be with someone that had as much of a stunning intellect as you,which isn't saying much, all things considered, :^) rather than someone with a psyche "stuck in the stone age", or anything that looks close to being similar.

By the way, what would you rather me call that "black pill" of yours, a crazy pill or a sugar pill?

>>294141

Okay, so then why does the reverse hapoen as well? A poor man with tons of "Alpha-ness" (how you would even measure that, I don't know), loses his girl to a stinking-rich pansy.

Or when a man has everything she could ever want, loving, caring, knows how to take charge and makes a ton of cash, but the woman still leaves him to slut around under the pre-text of " discovering herself".

And if this is unique to women, why do men cheat and leave for equally ridiculous reasons?

This is why relationships are more Russian Roulette than anything else. You could have all the socio-economic status/"Alpha-ness" in the world and you could still get shit on. When I think about the appeal of MGs, It's not so much >>294034 "complete devotion". It's "hey there's a life-partner I can 100% be sure won't rip out my heart and step on it."

>>294205

>Implying that there aren't women that like to be dominant

That's a whole lot needles in that heystack you found, hm

>>294152

>>294153

>It's a similar story to Mimiru's, although less severe than hers.

Yeah, would definitely agree with you on that.

Granted, I also really dislike Mimiru, as I believe she's selfish and childish. This is assuming her revelation as monster is true to who she was. It makes sense that she would be a bit annoyed about taking care of those older than her, as it's an abnormal circumstance, but she's abnormal herself and desperate times call for desperate measures. But I digress…

>In MGE, monsterized girls explicitly keep their memories and personality, it's their thought patterns and values that change. So Koyoi kept who she was in the most literal sense.

Thought patterns and values influence personality, and the perception of memories is influenced by thought patterns as well. Heck, MGE even says that monsterization "destroyed the prison inside of herself known as the 'Amanomiya' that she had been trapped in". Ignoring the flowery language, this states that Koyoi is no longer acting like the person she was prior to monsterization.

>Objectively? I don't think Koyoi could've gotten off any better.

My original point was about the prostitutes I mentioned before, but I'm going to put that aside.

Koyoi is also now unable to think of her own volition because of mamono mana (it even says "In this way Amanomiya Koyoi cast aside her humanity"), and now she can't make peace with her family, who would despise her now. I mean, would her sisters even accept her anymore if they were around? Internal problems aside, the family was hostile to monsters. She also didn't choose to become a monster anyway, or at least didn't under a sober mind, so could we really say this was something she really wanted?

>It's stated in the MGE that monsters get second-hand spirit energy from their mothers when their young (I don't know how they transfer it exactly).

The only reference I found to that is in the Merrow's entry: "Since the power sealed in that hat uses the mother’s power, the husband must transfer a lot of spirit energy to the mother each time a child is born." Perhaps when a monster child is born, the child inherits a large amount of spirit energy from the mom?

>Unless they just get married to literally the first guy they meet.

Considering the great "love" they have for men, doesn't that seem like a very real possibility?

>MGs do have sex as their main focus, because they're all influenced by a ridiculously powerful succubus.

That really is the crux of my rant isn't it? For all the issues I bring out about monster girls, a lot of them could be resolved if someone more aware of humans was in charge, compared to who we have now. It may be impossible to find a monster who would replace the Demon Lord, but it is the only way I can think of to remove many of the current problems. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking on my part.

>It makes sense, Druella probably won't stop at just Lescastie, so she sends Wilmarina to execute orders. Also, the Order has a vested interest in taking back their prized city, so Wilmarina fends them off.

Why would she bother fighting herself, especially since she has a whole city of monsters at her disposal, with a number of them likely to be single? She can lead an army, but that doesn't mean she would fight in it.

>In a setting already as sexualized as MGE, it's not unreasonable that they were literally doing nothing but banging.

I guess the question then lies on the extent of difference that does exist between the source material and the h-doujin. Considering they are both made by KC, I do think that there wouldn't be too much of a discrepancy.

>The Chief God tried to. But right now it's quite possibly the most powerful DL in history combined with "the strongest of humanity"…The ones that do actually want to push things in the opposite direction.

To be fair, we don't know the motivation behind the Chief God and the cycle, just that it is happening assuming the Demon Lord isn't lying about it. On one hand, the cycle's purpose could simply be petty and malevolent, a form of entertainment for the gods, for example. However, it could also be done as a necessary evil. Perhaps there's some sort of cosmic force that would destroy man, monster, and gods if the planet's population grew to a certain size, and the cycle is a means to prevent getting the attention of that force. The circumstances are ambiguous, so we don't definitely know if the Chief God is a bad guy.

If he was, however, and if there was anything that could destroy the Demon Lord, it could be also be used against the Chief God as well. The current Demon Lord's power does seem to be greater than the Chief God's, so anything able to stop her should stop him too. Let monsters and men be free of the influence of both, so that a better solution could be found, or something.

>>294852

>"To them, while human men are their 'most delicious food,' at the same time, they are 'male breeding partners,' and 'dearly loved beings.'”

Doesn't it concern you that "dearly loved being" comes after "male breeding partner", which itself comes after "most delicious food"?

>What "destabilizes a relationship" varies wildly between individuals.

Then why not openly communicate about what would and wouldn't destabilize a relationship? Let the monster girl and the man talk to one another and let them figure out what's acceptable and what isn't.

>But the point remains that it's possible for MGs to give up on a prospective partner.

But in what circumstances would a monster girl really give up on a partner? The only circumstances that seem to exist for that to happen is A) the man is going to Alp, or B) the man is so evil Satan would go "chill out bro". For men that are comfortable being men, the former is not an option, and the latter seems like it would be an unreasonable route to take.

>They love and adore men more than themselves, so following that logic if a man really doesn't want to be with them, what else would they do but let him go?

Rape the man until mamono mama kicks in so that they are indoctrinated into loving them. That seems to be the main course of action for many monster girls. If they really did put their husband above themselves, why would they rape them at all? I know you said that love is tied to lust for them, but if they really loved a man, wouldn't they respect his wishes until he decides that he's ready, if he ever decides to be ready, and just use a dildo to satisfy themselves in the meantime?

>The existence of Dragon Zombie kind of proves my point that it is possible for an MG to be without a man. Dragon Zombie is unique in that she's the only one who will literally come back from the dead to be with a man.

Not necessarily. Dragons are in of themselves abnormal among monsters, as their power gives them a higher amount of willpower compared to the normal monster. This is why they are able to go without husbands. They are still monsters, however, and have the same urges as a monster, so when the Zombie Dragon's page says "their lingering regret over not having been able to find a man to be their husband and have children with," this applies to all Dragons without husbands, not just those that wanted a husband but failed. The latter might not even exist, as Dragons' extreme power and extended lifespan would give them more than enough opportunities to abduct any poor sod to eventually become their husband if they desired. The Zombie Dragon is not a last chance for Dragons that failed to find a man to love to do so, it's a punishment upon those Dragons that choose to go against their instincts as monsters by removing their mind ("In exchange for an imperishable body, their mind, rational faculties, and pride as a dragon completely rot away in a slimy manner, and they become exactly 'female lizards'").

>Judging by their lore, Ice Queens and Baphomets could probably go several human lifespans worth of time without husbands, possibly forever, and that's just the extreme examples.

Ice Queens…yeah, I'd agree with you on that, assuming no man were to ever reach her. It's a big assumption though, as the cold they produce does lead men to want to be with monsters, like her, however. I can't agree with Baphomets though, as they do seek above average men. Considering the various heroes that are being born to fight against the Demon Lord, it shouldn't take a lifetime for a Baphomet to find a husband.

>>294852

>>294853

>Heck, MGE even says that monsterization "destroyed the prison inside of herself known as the 'Amanomiya' that she had been trapped in".

"Amanomiya" is not referring to her as in Koyoi. It's referring the Amanomiya clan and it's bullshit succession politics that made her run away in the first place. This becomes clear once you read exactly what made her leave in the first place. This is a common theme throughout the fallen brides stories. All of the girls except arguably Sasha have had burdens placed upon them by humans and society that has ruined or is currently ruining their lives. When they monsterize, those burdens disappear.

>would her sisters even accept her anymore if they were around? Internal problems aside, the family was hostile to monsters.

Her elder sister monsterizes right in front of her. Koyoi was about to kill her, but she saw how happy her elder sister was and couldn't do it. That was actually what made her start having doubts in the first place, which is ultimately led to her monsterization. Also, again, her family was the same one that tried to assassinate her younger sister because of politics. I don't think she gives two hoots about their opinion.

>The only reference I found to that is in the Merrow's entry

It's in World Guide 1, Fallen Maidens, under Devilish Children. I probably should've quoted this in the first place, but when I was making that post I had to kind of hurry, sorry for not being thorough enough.

"during early childhood, many of them eat normal food and thrive on demonic energy shared by their mother."

>Considering the great "love" they have for men, doesn't that seem like a very real possibility?

Possibility? Yes. But out of the whole wide world, finding a perfect match in the first man you find every single time is not very likely.

>It may be impossible to find a monster who would replace the Demon Lord

We don't know how the DL managed to obtain her position. For one, the fact that a succubus managed to grab that throne in a battle royale between all monsters heavily hints that there were other factors involved.

>Why would she bother fighting herself, especially since she has a whole city of monsters at her disposal, with a number of them likely to be single?

We don't know Druella's motives, and Wilmarina fights on her orders. The point remains that Wilmarina is stated explicitly to be as good, if not better, at swordsmanship that she was as a human. So she still trains, likely with other monsters. Meaning, she still has interests other than sex.

>I guess the question then lies on the extent of difference that does exist between the source material and the h-doujin. Considering they are both made by KC, I do think that there wouldn't be too much of a discrepancy.

I don't know, when the setting material itself references the things monsters do like culinary development, running shops, researching magic, fighting in the army, and ruling entire cities, I don't think that monsters as a whole just fuck all day long like in that doujin.

>Let monsters and men be free of the influence of both, so that a better solution could be found, or something.

In the context of the story, the DL is concerned with breaking the cycle where monster and humans take turns genociding each other. She doesn't have time to think beyond that at the moment.

>Doesn't it concern you that "dearly loved being" comes after "male breeding partner", which itself comes after "most delicious food"?

No, not at all. If someone describes something as "big, blocky, and orange", I don't assume that thing is less blocky and orange because he put the adjective "big" first.

>>294961

>Then why not openly communicate about what would and wouldn't destabilize a relationship? Let the monster girl and the man talk to one another and let them figure out what's acceptable and what isn't.

Because there's a possibility for that to fail. As is the case for 90% of failed human relationships. When MGs are literally bound to one man for life, leaving the possibility of a relationship failing is not a viable option.

>But in what circumstances would a monster girl really give up on a partner?

Aside from those two cases, I don't know. I only provided evidence that monster girls can give up on a partner.

>Rape the man until mamono mama kicks in so that they are indoctrinated into loving them. That seems to be the main course of action for many monster girls.

Raping him once or twice, or for an entire breeding season like with harpies, is possible. But getting mamono mana to kick in could take years to the point where the man could die of old age before that happens. So in order for an MG to what you describe, they would have to keep a man against his will and will likely come to despise them for years and rape him constantly. That's completely incongruous with love.

>The latter might not even exist, as Dragons' extreme power and extended lifespan would give them more than enough opportunities to abduct any poor sod to eventually become their husband if they desired. The Zombie Dragon is not a last chance for Dragons that failed to find a man to love to do so

That's exactly what her profile says she is. You quoted the part yourself

"their lingering regret over not having been able to find a man to be their husband and have children with,".

If they didn't feel regret and instead were satisfied with their choice, they wouldn't be resurrected in the first place. The reason they didn't get a husband isn't because she couldn't. It was their own stubbornness and pride that led Dragon Zombies to die as spinsters.

>Considering the various heroes that are being born to fight against the Demon Lord, it shouldn't take a lifetime for a Baphomet to find a husband.

"in most cases, Baphomets will accept a man as their husband if they have enough power to defeat them."

Baphomets are the division leaders of the Demon Army's spellcasting unit. Considering who the original Baphomet was, it's not unreasonable to guess many of them are older than the DL herself. A hero that could beat one of them could take generations to be born.

>>294962

>But getting mamono mana to kick in could take years

that's where you're wrong, kiddo

>>295693 (You)

>the DL is concerned with breaking the cycle where monster and humans take turns genociding each other. She doesn't have time to think beyond that at the moment.

If she truly wanted to only end the cycle, why not simply just reduce monsters' violent instincts due to mamono mana and have them go to humans saying "Hey, we're not assholes anymore, but we think we should let you know that your god is one." Having monsters attack and rape men seems counter intuitive if that's the case.

The Demon Lord's actions are motivated by an overwhelming case of anthrophillia or whatever a good term for "attraction to humans" would be, which bleeds into her choices and ultimately makes her unqualified if she is really trying to achieve peace between men and monster.

>No, not at alll. If someone describes something as "big, blocky, and orange", I don't assume that thing is less blocky and orange because he put the adjective "big" first.

Those terms aren't adjectives though, they are terms used to describe how monsters perceive men, and if they really put their love for men above all else, why not mention that first?

>Because there's a possibility for that to fail. As is the case for 90% of failed human relationships. When MGs are literally bound to one man for life, leaving the possibility of a relationship failing is not a viable option.

Okay, fine, I'll give you that. But if monster girls are really set to be like that, I have to ask something:

How can you be sure if the monster girl you're with truly loves you?

They're certainly going to be affectionate towards you, but is that her genuine feelings, or only because mamono mana compels her to love you? By having a monster girl's free will be suppressed due to mamono mana, you can't say with certainty that she loves you for you. At least for those human relationships that don't fail (and I consider a loveless but sustained marriage a failed relationship) you can say that they really do care for one another.

>I only provided evidence that monster girls can give up on a partner.

You only provided evidence that they can give up on a partner in two specific, extreme examples. Outside those situations, a man couldn't help but be with a monster no matter what he desires.

>But getting mamono mana to kick in could take years to the point where the man could die of old age before that happens. So in order for an MG to what you describe, they would have to keep a man against his will and will likely come to despise them for years and rape him constantly. That's completely incongruous with love.

Do you forget how quickly Koyoi, a hardened monster fighter, fell in love with a man she didn't even know due to mamono mana? She was certainly somewhere with a lot of it, but monster girls release a lot of mamono mana into their partner anyway, so no matter how much a man resists, they will be broken rather quickly. If mamono mana wasn't absorbed by the man, you'd certainly be right about how they would resent the monster, but they do, so tough shit if you're being eyed up by a monster girl you don't like, as you will like her.

>If they didn't feel regret and instead were satisfied with their choice, they wouldn't be resurrected in the first place. The reason they didn't get a husband isn't because she couldn't. It was their own stubbornness and pride that led Dragon Zombies to die as spinsters.

You're forgetting the main point I was making in my last post. Dragons are still monsters, so no matter how much they wish that they wouldn't have those regrets, if they don't have a husband, they will. There will never be a Dragon without a husband satisfied with that choice because of the nature of mamono mana in her.

Dragons are the most capable monsters to be able to choose not to be with men if they desired to, but they are still monsters, so any efforts not to be with men will eventually be for naught. And if they can't make the choice to be free, what does that say about other monsters?

>A hero that could beat one of them could take generations to be born.

Again, between the increasingly dire threat of monsters, and the probable desperation on the Order's part, training any heroes they have to their best potential should be more common. There are also not that many baphomet from my understanding, so even if it's infrequent to find such a man, it's likely each one will be able to find a husband sooner rather than later.

>>296599

>If she truly wanted to only end the cycle, why not simply just reduce monsters' violent instincts due to mamono mana and have them go to humans saying "Hey, we're not assholes anymore, but we think we should let you know that your god is one."

Humans would never believe the monsters and would take the side of their god instead. Even if it did work, humans have proven time and time again that they wage war and commit genocide over the dumbest things, not to mention the several millennia worth of resentment and fear built up on both sides that would linger far beyond the reign of one DL.

I can't deny the DL herself has a lot of flaws, both in her character and her plan. For one, I don't think she knows that love can be hard and painful. Or at least she doesn't care. And your point about androphilia is spot on, and forcing the MGs to be strictly monogamous while allowing men to sleep around is unfair, to say the least. But saying she's "unqualified" is incorrect. In the established canon, she's probably the only individual capable of bringing peace.

>Those terms aren't adjectives though, they are terms used to describe how monsters perceive men, and if they really put their love for men above all else, why not mention that first?

Adjectives are terms used to describe something.

Giving you another example, if someone describes their spouse as "my wife, my best friend, and my confidant", it doesn't make her any less of a confidant or a best friend. The order of descriptiors is inconsequential.

>How can you be sure if the monster girl you're with truly loves you?

They're certainly going to be affectionate towards you, but is that her genuine feelings, or only because mamono mana compels her to love you? By having a monster girl's free will be suppressed due to mamono mana, you can't say with certainty that she loves you for you. At least for those human relationships that don't fail (and I consider a loveless but sustained marriage a failed relationship) you can say that they really do care for one another.

As far as monster values go, they genuinely love their husbands. That much is stated clearly in the encyclopedia. They hate it when their husband suffers, stated to have "deep love", and value their husbands more than themselves. There's no question they care for their husbands. Heck, the Demon actually doesn't have to cook for her husband, wait on him, and fawn over him. She does so anyway because she genuinely loves him.

I actually question whether human "love" can even be called genuine love. History is littered with examples of how quickly "love" can disappear and how badly love can turn sour. Just my personal opinion, but I think the steady, unwavering love of an MG is far more genuine than the flimsy, inconsistent love humans have.

>You only provided evidence that they can give up on a partner in two specific, extreme examples. Outside those situations, a man couldn't help but be with a monster no matter what he desires.

>You only provided evidence that they can give up on a partner in two specific, extreme examples. Outside those situations, a man couldn't help but be with a monster no matter what he desires.

Monsters are explicitly stated to value the man more than themselves. If they love a man, but the man doesn't want to be with them, they will put the man over themselves.

Granted, until KC comes out and outright says something on the matter, this question will never be resolved.

>Do you forget how quickly Koyoi, a hardened monster fighter, fell in love with a man she didn't even know due to mamono mana?

Women are much more susceptible to absorbing mamono mana than men are. It says so right in the first encyclopedia. Incubization, as I stated earlier, can take years, if not decades.

>And if they can't make the choice to be free, what does that say about other monsters?

Dragon Zombies are Dragons did make the choice to be free. Otherwise they wouldn't have become Dragon Zombies in the first place.

Aside from that, there are several monster who make the choice to not be with men. I mentioned Ice Queens, Atlach-Nacha are burrowed deep underground in what could possible be another dimension entirely, Unicorns will very pointedly make a choice not to be with men unless that man is a virgin, and Baphomets will choose not to be with a man until they find one stronger than them.

>There are also not that many baphomet from my understanding, so even if it's infrequent to find such a man, it's likely each one will be able to find a husband sooner rather than later.

The chief baphomet is still unmarried, and she's someone who's probably been there since before the current DL considering, again, what Baphomets are. Not to mention all the heroes are getting snapped up before they reach their full potential.

>>296599

>The passage you quoted states that she cast aside her humanity, and that never was in question, since she's not a human anymore

I actually read that passage with the thought of it referring to the concept of humanity rather than the species. It really could be either, depending on your perspective.

It referring to the concept makes more sense for me when looking at it from a narrative perspective, because it's kind of a "no shit" scenario if it was just referring to race.

>Setting material explicitly states Koyoi kept her personality and memories,

I've mentioned this before, memories tend to be influenced by current behavior and perceptions. For example, you ever feel upset and you tend to remember more upsetting memories while you feel that way? That is actually due to a process psychologists call "mood-congruent memory".

I'd argue that Koyoi's personality, or at least her behavior, did change, especially when you take into account the two quotes she has. Her stoic personality is expressed in the first one, and a more lewd personality is shown in the second. However, I'll discuss behavior more in depth with the quote below.

>So the difference of opinion between us is probably our ideas of what it means to "keep oneself". I believe personality defines who we are, and everything else stems from that. What's your thoughts?

Part of my thoughts on the self, I admit, stem from some psychology classes that I've taken, particularly the "nature vs nurture debate". From my understanding of the consensus on the issue, the self is made up of both factors. A person does seem to have a base nature (or to rephrase it, a base personality), but this nature is shaped by values, experience, choices, and how you are raised. Both factors come together to dictate one's overall personality and behavior.

With monsterization, how I see it, both types of factors are impacted. One's nature is impacted by having mamono mana lead to people being more lustful, and nurture factors are changed in that values are changed as well.

>Full translated story is here: https://pastebin.com/NLHdPuR5.

Huh, never knew this existed. It's pretty long, so I would need to sit down for a while to read it in its entirety though…

Still, from what little I've read about it, and what you've said, Koyoi's sister had decided to be with her lover prior to monsterization. Who's to say that she wasn't already happy, unless I missed something while scanning the story? Druella might have been manipulating the circumstances to make it easier to corrupt Koyoi.

>What I meant was "we don't know exactly what Druella is planning or what her short-term goals are".

Eh, they're probably no different than how she acted in Lescatie, having monsters attack religious settlements. "As an extremely dangerous being, a high rank monster with a lifespan that can even be said to be infinite, the span of her invasions is extremely long and she’s presently laying low in Lescatie. However, once she starts moving again, she’ll probably aim for a main city of The Order once again."

>Thus, we don't know why exactly she…has her carrying out orders directly instead of another small-fry monster.

Could be a matter of pride, and rubbing her victory in. If I was a demon that recently corrupted a hero, I would certainly enjoy sending them out to attack their former allies.

>The physical abilities part is correct, but swordsmanship is not something that can be improved simply through monsterization.

Not necessarily. If its given that two people are of the same level of skill, the one that is physically superior should triumph, as they would have the advantage. Swordsplay is dictated by both physical ability and skill.

>Humans would never believe the monsters and would take the side of their god instead. Even if it did work, humans have proven time and time again that they wage war and commit genocide over the dumbest things, not to mention the several millennia worth of resentment and fear built up on both sides that would linger far beyond the reign of one DL.

Perhaps. However, a nonviolent movement done by the monsters might have lead to a lot of change in the relationship between the two groups. Pacifism has been shown to be capable of causing great change, as evidenced by Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr., and if the violent nature of mamono mana had been suppressed, it might have been a very reasonable option.

>>296728

>In the established canon, she's probably the only individual capable of bringing peace.

You are right about that, especially since we don't really have that much any information on people that wish to seek peace besides her, if they even exist.

Still, I personally don't see the peace she's working for as being worth what's being lost. Sure, the cycle of violence ends, but people would also lack a large degree of choice in their lives as well. Having your face smashed in by an orc is obviously not pleasant, but at least you would die as the person you are, rather than living on as a person different than yourself…

>Adjectives are terms used to describe something.

They are used more to add attributes to something, which can be done to describe something. Those terms are not adjectives.

>As far as monster values go, they genuinely love their husbands. That much is stated clearly in the encyclopedia.

You are missing the point I was making. They are pigeonholed to love men due to mamono mana, so how can one be sure that a monster loves their husband out of their own volition?

>I actually question whether human "love" can even be called genuine love…I think the steady, unwavering love of an MG is far more genuine than the flimsy, inconsistent love humans have.

Eh, well romantic love on its own doesn't last long, due to the sheer amount of energy it burns up. However, that romantic love is replaced with companionate love in long-lasting relationships. It may not be as much as a rush as the feeling of romance, but its a lot more stable and open to reason. The lack of that kind of love is really the problem with failed relationships.

> If they love a man, but the man doesn't want to be with them, they will put the man over themselves.

"If one where to refuse, then they’d probably just keep chasing after him and bugging him for a long time until he agreed. If one were to still refuse even after that, then they’d get sick of waiting and move into action." - Lizardman

>It says so right in the first encyclopedia. Incubization, as I stated earlier, can take years, if not decades.

I have conflicting sources on that.

"In the case of the succubus family of monsters, they possess 'succubus' energy' which has a higher retention rate, and causes men to release more mana in a single session of sex by infusing them with it, so compared to other monsters, incubisation is extremely fast, and in the case of a powerful succubus, it's even possible to change a man into an incubus by having sex once. Also, even if it's a monster of another race, after spending a long time as their husband, and living beside them, by continuing to have sex, Demonic mana gradually takes hold in the body after each time, and eventually, a man will transform into an incubus. Additionally, even monsters not of the succubus family can accelerate the incubisation process by continuing to ravish a man with multiple monsters, and aside from that, there is 'succubus' secret elixir', a medicine made from succubus' energy, and there are special rituals and spells that can be used to quickly change a man into an incubus." -Fallen Maidens, p77

At its longest, it may take a while, but incubization is not going to take years to occur. I suspect at its longest, it would take a couple of weeks. Plus, considering that incubi are "an ideal male to a female monster", many monsters would probably strive to incubize their husband quickly.

>Dragon Zombies are Dragons did make the choice to be free. Otherwise they wouldn't have become Dragon Zombies in the first place.

And then they loose their rational minds, becoming incredibly depraved and making their efforts wasted. Such freedom. :^I

>Aside from that, there are several monster who make the choice to not be with men.

>Ice Queen

"If a man actually does manage to reach them, his heart will already have been frozen and become empty. Unable to do anything but cling to the queen before his eyes, and lacking even the composure to hesitate, he would seek to copulate with the queen in pursuit of warmth. Even in reaction to this, the queen would remain completely emotionless and merely let the man have his way, accepting it;"

Doesn't seem like they try that hard not to be with them. Not to mention how the cold they produce that makes them not care also forces men to go after monsters like themselves.

>>296730

>Atlach-Nacha

"human men who will become their prey show up underground, as if lured by something, and finally manage to reach them."

Considering the Atlach-Nacha is originally part of the Cthulu mythos, I'd imagine anyone capable enough (and crazy enough) to reach them is probably lured to them.

>Unicorn

Considering that the Order's ideals and great influence, it probably isn't that hard for a unicorn to find a virgin.

>Baphomets

Eh, I've already addressed this, but I guess one more thing to point out is how men do become stronger as they become incubi. If the monster that incubized them is open for them to have multiple wives, like a Bicorn, there would probably be several incubi canidates for the Baphomets.

>and she's someone who's probably been there since before the current DL

Does this point really matter? Baphomet, like all monsters, were different prior to this current Demon Lord, so unless they married men back then as well, its not important.

I know I have used the term "mamono mana" a lot, but would you mind if I used "demonic energy" instead? It may have slightly different connotations, but "mamono mana" is a bit awkward. It doesn't seem to roll off the tongue-erm, keyboard, when compared to "demonic energy".

I remember something about how all the monsters wanted the DL to have her position. What's with that?

>Oh I'm sick and tired of being a badass gigantic Dragon turn me into a chick who loves penises please

>>296730

>Lizardman

There's a quite a few others too. Off the top of my head Orc, Ogre and Minotaur will capture and rape men and they care little for what these men think.

>>296880

Don't forget Manticores, Hellhounds, Ushi-onis, Dark Elves, and Atlach-nachas, point is there's alot of that shit in MGE but it gets ignored because all mamano especially the first two are good girls who dindu nuffin

>>296878

I can't find a solid source on that, but from what I can find, monsters did rally behind the current DL to give her her position.

I'm not certain how they rallied behind her and if they knew her plan ahead of time, however. Maybe they did want to be chicks that love penises, maybe they wanted peace but didn't know the current DL's plan ahead of time, or maybe she slept with a bunch of monsters so that she would get their approval. I have no idea.

If anyone can find a solid source, it'd be appreciated.

>All these walls of text

Call me cheap, but I really can't read this. Seriously, just take KC's headcanon at face value and tweak it as you require.

The problem is that believing our waifus are perfect in every way is causing conflict. KC canon and forced monsterization seem like mindbreak to me. With that said, I don't have anything against humans who voluntarily accept monster beliefs and monsterize on their own. Hard to find writefaggotry about that tho.

I think we can all agree that KC canon is fundamentally flawed at the very least. The extremes to which it is flawed is very subjective. Atleast that's what I got.

Another thing to note is that in KC canon, there are two types of demon realms. This concept is very interesting to me and I may writefag about it. The reason why is that the mentalities behind them are very different and worth discussing.

>>296924

Yeah there's no perfect canon or doctrine of monster girls to really follow. Best is to just take the base ideas and build up on your own from there.

>>296924

I discussed this back in the paladin thread, but I'll bring it back up here.

Why should we tweak KC's cannon if its so flawed? Why doesn't /monster/ collectively work together to create a cannon that is better than what we already have?

From my experience on my time on this board, I suspect the reason why many of us stick to KC's cannon, even if we alter it, is because his cannon was the first, and how it is ultimately pleasant to go with. It's flawed, sure, but many people just stick with it because its comfy. Some aren't comfortable with it, however, due to various reasons, which is where the complaints come in.

Another problem arises due to the typical response I've seen to these complaints: "Why don't you create your own cannon?" While a neat idea, I imagine that anyone that worked to make their own cannon would ultimately create flaws in it as well. They might not even realize it has flaws, due to their own tastes. While there will never be a perfect cannon for monster girls, much like there won't be a perfect cannon for any fictional scenario, if a community such as /monster/ can work together to make a cohesive cannon, many flaws could be ironed out of it while its being built, due to the oversight of everyone involved.

>>296933

I believe the reason that KC canon is so popular is because, although flawed, it is so comprehensive. The KC canon gives us a scaffold of sorts to work with. Creating our own canon is not easy and like you said, would produce faults that the creators cannot identify. That's why we stick to KC and iron out the flaws in his canon as much as we can. Doesn't hurt that his canon is so easy to understand and so comfy.

Another thing about the KC canon is how in-depth and dedicated it is to its own verse. That's something not so easily available. It has different demon realms, different fruits, different factions….worldbuilding like that takes time and effort, something very few of us can spare. It is sad, yes, but true.

But I must agree-/monster/ must create its own verse. We can use KC canon as a starting point and it would be easy for us as we already accept most of KCs monsters (the siths dont exist, period.)

>>296918

Yeah, those too I guess. I just posted the ones of which I was certain that they put men in their rape dungeon, with out looking it up first.

>>296933

>Why doesn't /monster/ collectively work together to create a cannon that is better than what we already have?

This is one of the most cringey reddit-tier post I've ever read here.

>>296945

>I was never a big fan of waifu-faggotry

wtf are you doing here then

>>296960

I enjoy monstergirls in general and I wouldn't have even mentioned this in any other thread.

>>296988

>What do you make of this assessment regarding MGQ?

super-extreme confirmation bias + the poster being butthurt about people enjoying their fetish setting.

also, don't take anime-tier settings so serious.

>>296989

Well, is he wrong? How many settings have humans in noticeable numbers able to stand against MGs on equal footing with a reasonable modus operandi regarding their belief systems and government? Where neither side is flanderized into "pure good" and "pure evil"? Half of the stories and CYOAs I see just have humans as punching bags and Orders as villainous buffoons. I would love to see a story where an army of human soldiers through discipline, training and mastery of tactics and weapon usage are able to actually fight a horde of MGs effectively rather just being mooks to get beaten up and raped.

>>296990

write better stories instead of whining about it then?

>>296990

also, the hfy bullshit is almost as annoying as american war-horny nationalism

>>296994

>being competent at things and not weak and useless aside from dispensing semen is now hfy bullshit

ok

>>296990

>>296995

I don't even know what you are getting at. Of course the stories on /monster/ and in monster girl related media are going to be pro-monster girl.

>>296999

You can be pro monstergirl without having to write your opponents and neutral forces as ludicrously two-dimensional strawmen. I'd argue that having a competent enemy who can actually garner support due to having viewpoints that are at least somewhat plausible and understandable results in a better story because it injects meaningful conflict and characterization into the plot, and makes the protags have to work all the harder for that victory instead of just coasting by on "I am the main character, so I win."

>>297007

>You can be pro monstergirl without having to write your opponents and neutral forces as ludicrously two-dimensional strawmen.

Any stories in particular that you mean?

>>297009

Warrior Quest on this board does a better job of keeping human soldiers as able opponents to MGs and having antagonists that are sympathizable and credible than most other stories, greentext or not, both here and on external MG sites. Plus, the main characters aren't immune to failure and have had to deal with bad outcomes due to their actions. It's pretty enjoyable.

>>297007

While that is correct, you still have to understand why some people would want it a bit simpler. Monsters after all, they are what the player would fight against in an RPG. They defy (Demi-)Humanity and it's god, serving the incarnation of pure evil, the Demon Lord.

If you want a setting where you are on the side of the Monsters, the easiest way is to swicht perspectives.

>>297103

BAD THINK

>>297103

What the hell kinda logic is that? By that logic, because monster-girls are part girl, they're equivalent to 3dpd…

>>297171

Do not even finish that thought. That is incredibly heretical

>>296728

>>296730

>It really could be either, depending on your perspective.

It's clear from the Q&A sessions that KC believes monsterization is a positive. So whenever ambiguous phrasing pops up I assume the most positive interpretation.

>With monsterization, how I see it, both types of factors are impacted.

Interesting. I appreciate someone with actual knowledge in psychology sharing their thoughts about it. Looking at it, it may seem that Koyoi's personality took a radical shift, just like Mimiru did. However, I'd argue that her post-monsterization personality was, in fact, her original personality. It was just that years of strife caused her to take on a more hardened, stoic shell that monsterization stripped away.

>Druella might have been manipulating the circumstances to make it easier to corrupt Koyoi.

I don't think there's any doubt about that. If you read closer you'll notice Koyoi seeing her sister so happy is what unbalanced her in the first place.

>Swordsplay is dictated by both physical ability and skill.

True, but this is a fantasy world, where heroes with equivalent if not greater raw strength than Wilmarina exist. If she really wants to protect Elt, she needs to keep her skills just as sharp, if not sharper, and for that she needs dedicated training. Thus, she has interests other than riding Elt all day.

>Pacifism has been shown to be capable of causing great change

With IRL examples, there's still discord between the two groups that continue to this day. And monster-human relations have far more enmity between them (mostly due to the back-and-forth genocide, I'd imagine).

>people would also lack a large degree of choice in their lives as well.

Aside from being single, there's nothing you can do as a human that you can't do as an incubus/monster. I think we've tread this point before, but KC actually came out and made a statement specifically saying that MGs do things other than sex, and that the saying "they do nothing but have sex" is an exaggeration.

>Those terms are not adjectives.

My point still stands. The order in which they are put is irrelevant, and one descriptor being put in front does not diminish the other ones in any way.

>>297218

>how can one be sure that a monster loves their husband out of their own volition?

Because they chose you. Monsters can reject suitors, if you're chosen by a monster girl then that's her own volition.

>It may not be as much as a rush as the feeling of romance, but its a lot more stable and open to reason. The lack of that kind of love is really the problem with failed relationships.

"There is no such thing as a stereotype bad man in this world. Under normal conditions, everybody is more or less good, or, at least, ordinary. But tempt them, and they may suddenly change. That is what is so frightening about men.” - Hachiman (Quoting Natsume)"

The reason I see MG love as more genuine than human love is because no matter what love someone holds, whether it's romantic or companionate, there will always be a motive out there somewhere that could convince them to throw it away.

MG's don't have that. There is literally nothing hey would trade their husband and their marriage for. That steadfastness makes it more genuine to me than anything else.

>Lizardman

Her and Salamander, along with a few others I'm probably forgetting, are specifically mentioned in their individual profiles to relentlessly pursue their targets. Meanwhile the encyclopedia in general states that most monster value their husband over themselves.

>At its longest, it may take a while, but incubization is not going to take years to occur.

I basically turned the wiki inside-out because I'm sure I saw a reference to a lifetime somewhere, but I couldn't find it. So I'll concede it will probably not take a lifetime. However, it's certainly longer than a couple of weeks, as this states

"after spending a long period of time at her side as her husband and having frequent intercourse, a man will probably eventually change into an incubus even though the changes are very gradual".

>Such freedom.

Choices have consequences. That doesn't detract from the fact the choice is still there. Plus it's still a special case. No other monster girl is mentioned as rising from the dead as a mindless zombie if they fail to get a husband.

>Ice Queen and the rest

All these monster girls, and more I've probably forgotten, don't even think about men and go about their lives unless a man happens to fall into their lap. They are making the choice not to be with a man, unless one offers himself to them.

Even though they probably could refuse (Ice Queen in particular could easily freeze a man solid if she really didn't want him), why would they? An infinite supply of energy, a warm body to share lonely days with and a lifelong companion. Humans sacrifice immeasurable time, effort, as resources to achieve these things.

>Does this point really matter?

Tracing back this conversation, I was using her seniority to state that she's been without a husband for a long, long time. Likely not for lack of suitors, but because none who were strong enough have shown up.

>would you mind if I used "demonic energy" instead

Not at all. I usually use terms like DE for Demonic Energy and DL for Demon Lord.

>>296933

>Why doesn't /monster/ collectively work together to create a cannon that is better than what we already have?

This kills the board

It's been too long…

>>296945

>Secondly, while his canon will always come up it isn't the only one that is allowed here.

Perhaps not, but KC's canon, or at least some variant of it makes up, say, ~95% of all the canons here. Between that and MGQ, we don't really have that many established canons.

>>297103

Only if you incubize.

>>297218

>>297219

>It's clear from the Q&A sessions that KC believes monsterization is a positive.

I do realize the importance of Word of God when it comes to fiction. However, with everything I've seen regarding KC's notes, I sometimes wonder if he has the same version of MGE that we do. He has said before that MGE is a setting where you do not suffer, but I question then why he would make his monster girls as lustful as they are, instead of making them comforting and loving from the start, with sex on the side. I'm not saying you can't have the odd monster girl that is aggressive or lustful, but to make most monster girls like that makes it seem like he has no idea what he's doing. Why have monsterization as it is now? Couldn't he have the physical changes be an option you can opt into, if you desired them, and have any mental changes that occur be something that develops naturally with a relationship, rather than them being due to a force of nature that makes people change? Between this and some examples with certain monsters, I can't always believe what KC says, just because of how at odds it is with his work.

This generally leads me to take any vagueness at face value. Granted, this could just be an excuse on my part so I can get away with my negatively biased perspective, but what can you do?

>However, I'd argue that her post-monsterization personality was, in fact, her original personality.

That's kind of a hard idea to sell, at least to me, as there's not that much personality to gather from her after monsterization, at least in her biography. I mean, she's lustful, and she loves Elt, but that's about it, and that's kind of the default setting for monster girls. Even Mimiru is noted to revert to a more childish mindset after transforming.

>I don't think there's any doubt about that. If you read closer you'll notice Koyoi seeing her sister so happy is what unbalanced her in the first place.

Then might it be possible that if Koyoi's sister would disapprove of her if she was pure and Koyoi monsterized anyway? Koyoi's sister may have disregarded her parent's wishes, but she was still raised by them.

>True, but this is a fantasy world, where heroes with equivalent if not greater raw strength than Wilmarina exist.

Wilmarina was noted as being a very talented warrior already however, and memory is an interesting little gem. Ideas and objects that hold little relevance to a person will fade completely from a person's memory after some time, but for those things that are relevant and/or persist over a long period of time, the memory sticks. People have been shown to recall languages that they've learned years prior but haven't used since if their learning program was intense enough. In such a case, however, the memory would have to be triggered first.

Due to Wilmarina's intensive training throughout her life prior to monsterization, she would probably recall her swordsmanship skills for many years after the transformation, but would require a cue, like a threat, for that to occur. In such a case, the talent she had combined with the strength she has as a monster would probably lead her to overpower all those but the strongest if the need arises. She has no reason to train, and would probably just spend the time she would train by being with Elt instead, due to demonic energy.

I should also bring up again that she probably wouldn't even need to fight at all anyway, due to the hoards of monsters at her beck and call anyway. Anyone that did probably reach her would likely be washed over with demonic energy already, and would receive the same fate Koyoi did.

>With IRL examples, there's still discord between the two groups that continue to this day.

In regards to the IRL examples, I'd say that's because not everyone was dedicated to loving pacifism. I mean, while Martin Luther King Jr. was doing his thing, Malcom X was also trying to get black rights, but in a much more hostile direction. Even in a real pacifist movement, there is always the temptation to fight.

In comparison, due to the influence of the Demon Lord, you're more likely to have a universal and consistent attitude with monsters. And if all monsters were essentially rendered harmless, any reasons humans would have to fight monsters would probably be whittled away to nothing. It would just be easier to live and let live in regards to the monsters, and positive relationships could grow from there, and all without invasions and mind manipulation. I admit that I still grit my teeth at this option, as it's still not true free will, but it's at least more free.

>>299143

>Aside from being single, there's nothing you can do as a human that you can't do as an incubus/monster. I think we've tread this point before…

Yes we have, but I should bring up the points I did before. You forget how demonic energy changes people’s behavior. Demonic energy has been shown to lead to people to be much more interested and take part in much more sex, and this only increases as more demonic energy is introduced into an environment. Most, if not all activities that monsters take part in that isn’t sex tends to be related to sex in some way, often leading directly to it. For example, demonic silver is often used to incapacitate men to make them easier targets to rape when it is forged into a weapon, and is also used to corrupt pure women when it’s made into jewelry. And as the cheshire manga shows, it is true that they can do things other than sex, but they’re going to have sex while doing those things. While you can theoretically be free to do anything you wished, demonic energy makes choices between having sex and not having sex the equivalent of a glutton trying to decide whether to go to the all-you-can-eat buffet or to go exercise.

You don’t even have to have sex to begin with to be exposed to demonic energy. If one monster was having sex with one man in your community, the environment would eventually be polluted with demonic energy, leading to the changes above.

>The order in which they are put is irrelevant,

Okay, so I couldn’t lead you to the idea that I wanted to with that quote alone. Let me put the quote into perspective then. If monsters really did treat men as their “‘dearly loved beings’” first of all, why is it that they chase men so that they can have a dick to play with BEFORE they become interested in the man themselves. Many entries reiterate this idea of the monster kidnapping a man to have sex with them, and only after doing this, they start doting on the man. To monsters, the man they love is only second fiddle to what they can provide, which is why the terms are put in the order that they are.

>Because they chose you.

To reuse the glutton metaphor, that’s like a glutton preferring to eat certain foods from an all-you-can-eat buffet over others; it's not really their choice to be with men at all, and outside the most picky monsters, they probably would decide to be with you anyway if nothing else is available.

>The reason I see MG love as more genuine than human love is because no matter what love someone holds, whether it's romantic or companionate, there will always be a motive out there somewhere that could convince them to throw it away.

So what does that say about those loving relationships that don’t break up, couples that stayed with each other for their entire life, even up until death? Are we just going to assume that they never found something that would tempt either one of them to break up in their entire lifetime? That seems pretty unlikely, doesn’t it?

One of the members of a couple might be willing to throw away their relationship if it is unsatisfactory for them and they have the opportunity to do so, but if the relationship is strong, it’s going to be much harder to tempt a person away. I will admit that it is difficult to find out how to make a relationship strong, but hey, people are complex, and it takes time and effort to find out what works. And if it fails, you might as well try again, but in a different manner.

>There is literally nothing hey would trade their husband and their marriage for.

And this steadfast love is worth not giving them free will?

>Meanwhile the encyclopedia in general states that most monster value their husband over themselves.

More the idea of a husband. I mean, if they really did value their husband over themselves, then why does the Holstaur rape her husband if she doesn’t get her way?

“However, while they may be docile, they're still monsters that possess an inhuman amount of desire. Continue to ignore them for too long and eventually they won't be able to take it any more. If this happens, these docile monsters will turn ferocious and assault their husband, forcibly having intercourse with him, and they won't become docile again until all their pent-up sexual desire has been satisfied.”

Sure, being able to satisfy one another is part of a healthy relationship, but rape isn’t part of a healthy relationship either. A man not under the effects of demonic energy or shock would be horrified that their beloved would choose to force themselves upon them against their will.

>>299143

>>299146

>However, it's certainly longer than a couple of weeks, as this states…”…the changes are very gradual".

Gradual is a vague word on its own. It can refer to a week-long time, a month-long time, a year-long time, you get the idea. However, considering the great sex drive monsters have already, the ability of monsters to accelerate the process of incubization, and the desirability of an incubus for a monster, I’d say it probably takes sooner rather than later for it to occur.

>Choices have consequences. That doesn't detract from the fact the choice is still there.

There are consequences, and there is the undoing of a choice. The Dragon Zombie is the latter, as a Dragon’s resistance to getting a husband is taken away from her, alongside other faculties. It would be as if a smoker that was close to kicking their habit were forced against their will to pick up smoking again, reestablishing their addiction. Everything that they have done has been for naught.

>Plus it's still a special case. No other monster girl is mentioned as rising from the dead as a mindless zombie if they fail to get a husband.

And it’s also a special case in that the Dragon has more willpower than most monsters, allowing some of them to not get a husband if they desired, which leads to them becoming the Dragon Zombie in the first place.

>All these monster girls, and more I've probably forgotten, don't even think about men and go about their lives unless a man happens to fall into their lap.

Not really. Even the Ice Queen’s “frozen hearts…tremble just barely” at the sight of men and monster together. No matter their resistances, they desire to be with men, and they ultimately have no choice but to have and follow this desire.

>Even though they probably could refuse…why would they?

Well, if they weren’t already biased in their thoughts, they could decide not to have a husband for numerous reasons. Perhaps they have personal interests that a husband would get in the way of doing, like a lich trying to develop non-sex related spells, or a hinezumi working on her martial arts skills. Maybe they’re not interested in such a relationship, and are satisfied with only friendship.

There are people that are not interested in being in such a deep relationship for their own reasons.

>Head Baphomet

I actually looked at the Baphomet and Sabbath entries, where is the note about the head Baphomet being single? I have found no reference to it.

Is it best to have a waifu whose personality is similar to your's or one who has the opposite?

>>299299

depends because you can have someone that's your type and the same personality but doesn't want to do anything with you. Or you can have the person that you have the least in common with you but has your best interests in their mind.

I think in the end for most people anyways, its better to be with someone that likes you and you can like back than someone who is like you but doesn't want anything to do with you.

>>299299

From my understanding on psychology, if one has a waifu or, dare I say it, an actual girlfriend or wife, romantic relationships tend to be more successful if the two have similar personalities and interests.

>>299143

>make his monster girls as lustful as they are, instead of making them comforting and loving from the start, with sex on the side

But they are loving and comforting from the start. In fact the monster girls that kidnap and rape you are in the minority for later releases. They're specifically stated to love humans to the point where the only time they will ever kill a human, male or female, is to defend their own lives or the lives of their husbands. The demonic energy actually prevents them from harming their husband during sex (the "broken pelvis" meme literally ignores KCanon).

>as there's not that much personality to gather from her after monsterization,

There's a scene in the actual story right at the end where it's shown how Koyoi cares about her former clan so much, particularly her sister, that she's willing to go back to Zipangu to rescue her from forced leadership and arranged marriage. We're debating right now on whether or not that "rescue" is a good thing, so that's another topic.

>Then might it be possible that if Koyoi's sister would disapprove of her if she was pure and Koyoi monsterized anyway?

Intriguing idea, but I find it difficult to believe. Her sister ran away in the first place, at least it was implied, because she had fallen in love with a man from a lower social status, and wasn't allowed to marry him. So criticizing Koyoi for abandoning herself to happiness doesn't sound very congruent.

>Due to Wilmarina's intensive training throughout her life prior to monsterization, she would probably recall her swordsmanship skills for many years after the transformation,

Memory would play a factor yes, and make her better than a rank amateur. But any expert can tell you that if skill are not regularly polished they will decay. In Wilmarina's bio it says specifically "Rather than decaying, the sword and sorcery skills she cultivated as “Wilmarina the hero” have been beautifully polished and strengthened" stating that her skills specifically have been strengthened.

> And if all monsters were essentially rendered harmless, any reasons humans would have to fight monsters would probably be whittled away to nothing… to live and let live in regards to the monsters, and positive relationships could grow from there

Something being harmless has not dissuaded humans from killing and/or otherwise exploiting them, even when that something was other humans. We're also particularly bad with live and let live, even without hundreds of generations worth of genocide. If monsters were rendered harmless they would go extinct very quickly, just like if any organism suddenly lost all its defenses against a hostile species.

>. And as the cheshire manga shows, it is true that they can do things other than sex, but they’re going to have sex while doing those things. While you can theoretically be free to do anything you wished, demonic energy makes choices between having sex and not having sex the equivalent of a glutton trying to decide whether to go to the all-you-can-eat buffet or to go exercise.

The encyclopedia also states that monsters are rapidly developing a culinary culture, and the end of Koyoi's story specifically states Druella has set up a governmental administration and is teaching her subjects how to cultivate the land for demon realm fruits. These are things that cannot be done if one is constantly having sex.

>Many entries reiterate this idea of the monster kidnapping a man to have sex with them, and only after doing this, they start doting on the man.

And there are plenty of monsters who do the reverse For example, it's specifically stated for harpies and crow tengus that they take interest in a man before kidnapping them. Kobolds and Kikimoras, not to mention the Cu Sith spend as long as the man wants doting on them. And there are also several entries where their courtship behavior is not explained. They are with men because they like those men, not what comes out of their dicks.

>To reuse the glutton metaphor, that’s like a glutton preferring to eat certain foods from an all-you-can-eat buffet over others;

A person who really likes food choosing to eat only one specific food means he is very fond of that particular food. A monster choosing you means she is very fond of you.

I think you should clarify exactly what you mean by this. I think I'm misunderstanding here.

>>299426

>If the relationship is strong, it’s going to be much harder to tempt a person away.

Harder, yes, but not impossible. I never bought into the "women are all cheating whore/bitches/hyperamists", because it's not exclusive to women. The fact no human is 100% loyal is probably the reason I'm on this board fantasizing about monster girls in the first place.

>And this steadfast love is worth not giving them free will?

They have the will to choose who they spend their lives with, and what they do with their lives beyond that.

> I mean, if they really did value their husband over themselves, then why does the Holstaur rape her husband if she doesn’t get her way?

The holstaur shares the same genes with the minotaur, one of the most aggressive MGs out there. Its her love for her husband that she keeps these instincts in check until she literally cannot control them.

>There are consequences, and there is the undoing of a choice. The Dragon Zombie is the latter, as a Dragon’s resistance to getting a husband is taken away from her, alongside other faculties…Everything that they have done has been for naught.

Her choice was to spend her life without a husband, and she successfully did so. It's specifically said that their pride made them refuse men because they weren't "good enough", rather than because they desired freedom, and at the end of their lives they regret that.

>And it’s also a special case in that the Dragon has more willpower than most monsters

Yes, but some monsters, presumably, will not be able to get a husband, whether it's because there's no candidates or they were busy with something else (like, say, biting Pharaohs). Dragons are unique because of the specific reasons they may not have a husband, as explained above.

>There are people that are not interested in being in such a deep relationship for their own reasons.

For liches a man is extremely helpful to replenish her own power and there a spells which require both a man and a women to preform. For a Hinezumi no matter how good she gets in martial arts, one bucket of water over her head and she's rendered helpless unless she's married. For MGs, there's literally no disadvantage for obtaining her husband. Their own personal skills are enhanced by doing so, and they gain a loving life partner out of it.

>I actually looked at the Baphomet and Sabbath entries, where is the note about the head Baphomet being single? I have found no reference to it.

It's in the first encyclopedia. In the synopsis it says:

" Small parts of the text are written with the help of the head baphomet of the Sabbath."

And when she chimes in on the Pleasure Runes section she says:

"“We've made a recent advancement that allows us to also embroider runes into clothing and still retain the full effects. Those with a childish, sensitive body like me don't have a lot of excessive extra flesh, unlike some others. Even without it, we can still have lots of fun with elder brother. It's something I have no use for. What? ‘Say that after finding a partner?’ Bite me!”"

>>299148

>Not really. Even the Ice Queen’s “frozen hearts…tremble just barely” at the sight of men and monster together. No matter their resistances, they desire to be with men, and they ultimately have no choice but to have and follow this desire.

That's like saying men have no choice but to have to follow their desire to have sex with attractive women. There's nothing wrong with an innate desire for love and sex.

>>299426

>In fact the monster girls that kidnap and rape you are in the minority for later releases.

I've actually stopped reading MGE entries some time back due to cynicism regarding the series, but I suppose now should be the time I look at it again. However, I've been poking around the two MGE wikis, and I can't seem to find a list of the monsters in order of release. The new one does display the 3 most recently released monsters, but I don't think I've missed only 3. Can I get some helping finding a list like what I'm looking for?

>Write post about prospect of posting picture that is appropriate for thread, but has elements that are disliked by /monster/, allowing feedback to occur

>No responses for a week

>Post pictures, which are spoilered, but are clear what they are so that if one didn't want to see them, they didn't need to

>Posts removed immediately and banned

This honestly doesn't make any sense to me. If the picture was so abhorrent to lead me to be banned, why didn't anyone say anything earlier?

>>303347

nobody needs to see ponyshit, faggot.

>>303351

Then why didn't you stop me from posting it before?

>>293055

Free will and Consciousness don't exist anon. It's just an overload of sensory input and an echo from processing.

>>303411

Because you are a filthy newfaggot that did not bother to read the rules, its on the fucking sticky.

>>303347

>>303411

Take it to the meta thread.

>>303437

Really? If I really was a newfaggot, why would I have warned about the images ahead of time? I think a newfaggot would have just posted them haphazardly.

>>303438

I suppose I should do that. I mean, this is my thread, but whatever.