/abdl/ - Adult Baby - Diaper Lover★

It's like the rest of reddit, void of reality.

From what I've surmised the people running the ABDL subreddit have some kind of Zoe Quinn type relationship with ABU, where they're getting freebies and favors not only to ban users from talking bad about ABU (or even siding against them), but to likewise use puppet accounts to create blatantly nonsensical upvote and downvote disparity.

Like if someone makes a positive ABU oriented post and then it's followed up by negative comments… somehow the negative comments will receive exponentially more downvotes than the original post received upvotes, which is a clear indication of tampering.

Normally in any online communication it follows a kind of "trickle down" effect where the first post will get the most attention and then each subsequent post or reply will get less and less attention, which is why the numbers (positive or negative) almost always go down the further you get in.

But if you look at a lot of those ABU threads they're just… nonsense. The first positive post or posts will get a handful of upvotes and then negative posts, which are often buried down at the bottom have exponentially more downvotes… and they keep increasing!

Sometimes on Reddit you can get mass downvoting to occur, but it's instance based, meaning a large mass can downvote something, but once it's been downvoted… the downvotes will suddenly stop (because it gets dropped all the way to the bottom).

Those ABU threads though CONTINUE to clock more and more downvotes even AFTER their initial sudden drop (which usually only starts out as like 0 or -1. Then suddenly 12 to 24 hours or more later they take more and more losses even though at that point, statistically speaking, no one should even be registering them.

Because it's Reddit. That's literally it.

>>52396 (OP)

Discord is the same way. Someone actually posted that 9yo "drag queen" with a caption that read "boys can wear dresses too". Blows my mind how detached and sick people can get trying to legitimize their sissy/tranny fetish using some abused child to do so.

but the discord is sorta comfy though it's full of furfags using furfag language which is irritating

>>52408

Which discord?

>>52408

fetlife is the same thing

if you differentiate between trannies and actual women they will ban you from their groups.

>>52417

the one shilled in the thread posted here

>>52418

Fuck fetlife. The women hate all the men there

>>52420

>>52418

I've never used fetlife but it really seems it's basically just a huge tumblr forum for people to signal about how sexually progressive they and has nothing to do with actually hooking up

>>52420

The women are generally "women" more often than not

Ok, before I misjudge you for being a 4chan brainlet, what exactly did they do?

>>52427

I've met some cool people locally from FL, but some others who made me feel like I won a gene pool race.

All the ABDL groups are cesspools of the same group of self-righteous assholes who if you don't agree with them, you're a bigot/transphobe/xenophobe and and other kind of phobe. Sad part is, 90% of the "group leaders" are internet warriors with no direction in life.

>>52396 (OP)

I've had multiple alts banned from /r/abdl for even DARING to mention that maybe ABU having a trademark on "Space" in the Adult Diaper market, suing someone with said trademark makes them even WORSE than Rearz even attempting to trademark ABDL.

The mods removed any post critical of ABU in their lolsuit against Tykables, but they certailnly allowed the front page to be nothing but "Fuck Rearz!" during the ABDL trademark fiasco.

Reddit is cancer for everything, /r/ABDL is only good for new diaper announcements.

With regards to ABU, I can't wait until they face a REAL scandal and seeing the mods have to go into damage control ban mode.

I've had an alt banned because I called out one of these generic camwhores out for proof that they were raped like they said.

>>52428

So, what exactly did they do?

>>52432

Oh, ok. Thanks.

>>52442

Fuck off, Croc.

You manage to make Demon God appear like a sane and well-balanced individual.

Fuck you!

At least I'm helping our ABDL community get known for the RIGHT reasons.

By producing ABDL stories and being active on Twitter.

Unlike you dumb Americans; I don't sue other ABDL companies because of the word "Diaper" relating to "Space" or whatever the fuck is going on between those shitty "Diaper" companies!

Also, who the fuck is Demon God?

>>52464

Reddit is far superior to this shithole. Perhaps the problem lies with you, an edgy loser incapable of being a part of any community, let alone being able to write anything remotely fap worthy, you friendless loser.

The problem lies with me?

I was only on that site for 5 minutes before I was ganged up upon!

Daily Diapers is heaven compared to Reddit and that's saying something!

You degenerate PRICK!

>>52466

It's ok to be on the spectrum, you can't help it. You would have to be to consider Daily Diapers heaven and call anyone else a degenerate.

Having that kind of social disorder means it's harder to be able to talk to people and I would hope you can understand that. Maybe someday you will find someone that will read your stories and understand your brain does not work like normal peoples' brains.

>>52466

God, shut the fuck up and make your own subreddit where you can have all the imaginary drama you dream of, you cuntish cunt

>>52464

Nice Try Demon God

I just like reddit culture better, less racist and does more to promote a women-first mentality. My user name is pickle_rick_diaper_slave and my wife gets fucked while im locked in the crib with my laptop

>>52442

guy, you can't replicate croc autism, i could tell right away that this post wasn't made by him

>>52536

That's kinda depressing. It's one thing to do all that with someone that remains loyal to you, but this is something else. Guy really likes his humiliation.

i'd rank this board barely above reddit's abdl board. for completely different reasons

>>52573

Can you detail the reasons? To me this ranks miles higher than the fucking circle jerk that Reddit is.

>Whines about how Reddit is a circlejerk

>Circlejerks in a thread about it

It's funny how people who whine about sjws tend to be greasy neckbeards incapable of having a normal discussion with another human without being a complete shitstain.

>>52596

Only one post in this thread, besides yours, has complained about circlejerks.

My main objection to reddit is that it's full of people like you. It takes an astounding lack of self-awareness to post about your diaper fetish on an anonymous board and still have the gall to call others "greasy neckbeards". People hate "SJW"s for the same reason they hate /pol/ - being told you're the scum of the earth because of things you have no choice over is never nice. If everyone who holds that view is an evil greasy neckbeard who rapes women, so be it.

Also reddit has never been good for discussion, unless your idea of "discussion" is posting memes, puns, and shallow one-line opinions.

Sage because there are much better things to discuss than why reddit is shit.

>>52396 (OP)

>the abdl subreddit is shit because it is infested with idpol

>I know! I'll just make an idpol thread on 8ch's /abdl/!

fuck off

>>52600

He's not a greasy neckbeard for not liking sjws. Nobody likes sjws, that's why they're such a strong boogeyman. The thing about them is that they're nowhere near as prevalent as people like OP would like to believe, and so they use them as a scapegoat to avoid any sort of self reflection or accountability. You have a choice in how you treat people and present yourself. If you act like a regular person talking with regular people, you won't have a problem, even when you have a difference in opinion. If you act like a raging fuckstick like certain boards are known for, you will be treated as such. Forgive me for the assuming that someone giving the favorite /pol/ scapegoats is acting like someone from /pol/.

SJW is a nebulous term. Everyone has a different picture of it in their head. Can range from supporting civil rights to jigglypuff having an outburst on campus, or just someone having a bad day and displays a moment of uncool.

Even if it wasn't, it's not the society shattering situation people make it out to be. It's just another scapegoat to pin our problems on while ignoring the authentic concerns in our society. Obnoxious, flavor of the month justice, by college students have always and will always exist. It's what happens when you are young, possess amble alacrity, educated and think you've gotten a strong gripe on the world.

>>52678

You've just described every group of extremists across both sides of the idpol spectrum.

The fact is that there's a reason we're all here rather than on reddit, and it isn't as simple as us all being greasy neckbeards.

So on the top of the /r/abdl subreddit right now is people complaining about /r/girlsindiapers not allowing traps and calling them transphobic.

Mods on /r/girlsindiapers say they are going to open it up for a vote again soon.

I hope the vote is overwhelmingly against letting traps on there. It's not even that big of a deal to me, I would just love to see them all cry when they realize the majority is actually against them.

>>52922

seriously, fuck off to reddit with your identity politics. nobody here cares.

>>52922

Post:

Not so much trans specific but I just adore so called "traps" or the old (and slightly offensive) term "shemales". Sexually I prefer women but emotionally I prefer men. I don't mind which genitals they have. But someone with a feminine body, who makes themselves up, and wear pretty and frilly things while still being a guy in general? Well that just revs my engine right up.

As for the sub being discriminatory, I've explained my side of the matter and that I believe we should be open but I also understand the people who don't wish to be as open. Should /r/Ford have to accept photos of Chevy trucks in the name of acceptance?

Response:

"Trap" is just as offensive, FYI. Please be sure not to call a person that unless they self-identify.

My sides.

>>52930

Wait! No it got better!

I wasn't commenting on any of this because I think I got enough inboxed hate calling me a snowflake and dozens of various slurs over it last time, but this has always driven me insane. You can't give us all this bullshit about how much you love trans women and how accepting you are, but then also use absurdly offensive terms for trans women and compare them to Fords that think they're Chevys.

You can't have it both ways, it's been probably years now since the last vote and people tried to explain this exact same thing to you, but you just keep telling everyone how great and accepting you are while absolutely refusing to stop using slurs and making these absurd comparisons.

Trap is a slur. My fucking sides!

>>52922

Well any such vote is meaningless. What matters are sales. If they want to make like Marvel Comics and start pandering to a nonexistent audience… yeeaaaah… that ain't gonna end well…

https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/ComicGate

I'm actually going to go and vote that they ~do~ start having tranny models and I hope everyone else trolls the shit out of them with the same… it'll be good lesson for them I think.

>>52930

>"Trap" is just as offensive, FYI. Please be sure not to call a person that unless they self-identify.

thank god these people don't go outside

>>52933

Yeah, but when they do go outside it's usually pretty entertaining…

https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Trigglypuff

>>52592

i can't stand either community. there's too much moderation on reddit and not enough on these boards.

i go to the abdl subreddit to read stuff but i don't go often. there are (rarely) posts from time to time that make it worth the time to visit it now and then, but i seldom comment on anything.

i usually only come here for porn since it's easy to find stuff based on threads, and threads don't have to be on page 1 to have any activity. i'd love it if the mods cared enough to ban dipshit namefags but it's too easy to hop IPs and carry on, which is a large reason why i stopped visiting chan sites altogether. attention whoring is a million times more effective on chans than it is on reddit.

>>52932

Non-existent audience for comics also tends to include 'people under the age of 50', so there's definitely some demand for pandering. Do you even buy comics? Got to actually support all the edgy shit if that's what you want Marvel to make.

What does sales have to do with some crappy subreddit anyway. Of course a vote matters if they want to gauge who actually cares, and it really shouldn't be outsiders that don't visit the subreddit.

>>52964

Are you completely retarded or did you just not read the article?

Marvel Comics suffered a NINETY PERCENT sales drop when they attempted to pander to SJWs and the "progressive" crowd… I hate to be the one to break this to you kid, but you're living in an echo chamber and the real world doesn't align with your estranged bullshit. Also people of ALL AGES buy comics… in fact at this point most of the people who buy comics are in their 20s and 30s.

You know who DOESN'T buy comics? SJWs.

You know who DOESN'T buy video games? SJWs.

You know who DOESN'T buy diaper porn? SJWs.

And the list goes on and on. SJWs like to get all the fuck up into other people interests and enjoyment where they then try and SHIT all over the place… but that's it, that's ALL they're interested in. They have no love of whatever community or interest they try and infest themselves into like a raging cancer.

And no, child, votes in an online survey are MEANINGLESS. They're susceptible to trolling, they're susceptible to tampering via bot use, they're susceptible to tampering via manual abuse (deleting cookies, changing accounts, using TOR networks, etc).

Any "information" gained from an online survey will be inherently faulty by nature of the system and acting on such information to make business decisions is stupid on a level that even NO!SPEC advises against.

>>52396 (OP)

>>52408

>reddit/discord server that is set up as a standalone

>not cancer

I don't know what it is, but something spreads cancer on reddit and discord

>>52930

Jesus christ. It just sounds like a run of the mill guy dude who decided that "gay" just wasn't unique enough.

I hate to pimp my own post but here's the top comment from my last link

>If you assume "cringe culture" is the internet's take on enforcing normative values through public shaming- a social activity that's been around as long as humans have lived together- I think it can be good or bad, based on who's shaming and why…

>…Or maybe not! Normative values are constantly changing-- what was fine a decade ago may not be fine today and what was unthinkable last year might elicit shrugs next week. Today's cringe, tomorrow's shrug. Yesterday's shrug, tomorrow's cringe.

>All that said, people would probably cringe a lot less if they thought real hard and gave empathy a shot before rushing to judgement.

>>52978

I not getting the point your trying to make?

Im just gonna post the page rather than snippets.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ABDL/comments/829ofa/mistreatment_of_trans_people_cannot_be_a_standrd/

>>52967

So then you were going post photos of your massive comic collection, right? Nothing like sales to show you actually support something, right?

You're living in your own echo chamber, especially if you expect a cringy meme drama wiki article to be taken seriously. People dropping series over some bad writing or developments they're not into is not something to be surprised about, and fishing for new audiences can fail due to poor writing, marketing, or distribution too.

I had assumed you were being hyperbolic, and not serious with your claim that SJWs don't buy comics. Obviously young people still buy into comics, but I imagine based more on the back of movies, television and games (or even just personal older mentors indoctrinating into fandom) rather than the medium being in a particularly prolific age. I didn't mean pandering to social justice specifically either, just that fishing for wider audiences is generally a good business practice.

I mean in part I get where you're coming from with your rant. Critics bitching about media for the sake of ranting about their ideologies aren't into the media in the first place. But diversity can sell - Ham-fisted token diversity hijacking existing series is generally not a good idea, due to its insincerity and disruption of existing audiences - but representation can draw you to a narrative, if you know it exists and curiosity isn't dampened by effort in attaining it in an age with full of digital distribution and subscription TV.

Since SJW is a meaningless buzzword that is commonly even extended to anyone remotely left leaning or considerate, I'm not sure how incredulous you mean your claims to be about SJWs not being customers of media in general. But I doubt it would ring true for a lot of people you've called SJW in your life.

You also seem to care too much about a crappy subreddit of fetish photos. It doesn't matter how flawed online surveys are when you're talking about some insignificant subreddit that no one but it's existing audience should remotely care about the internal drama. You're as guilty as these boogeyman SJWs you're talking about if you want to go in and troll votes. Even if the localised exhibitionist transwomen and trap fetishists get their way, people can always start a new subreddit because it's the kind of crap that can just as easily be posted here.

And I mean, even if American comics were lacking in diversity, there's a lot of social justice ideals attached to a lot of popular superheroes, and they definitely were historically political.

>>52989

Oh child, I'm afraid you're more than a little late to the ComicGate party…

#MoveTheNeedle

You see Disney went and FIRED Marvel Comic's editor and chief and replaced him with a fat white dude back around last November and then they promptly slashed and burned the majority of your "progressive" comics that no one, literally NO ONE was buying (not even the screeching howler monkeys SJWs who claimed to want them)…

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/12/21/victims-marvel-cancellation-bloodbath/

…and then after that the #MoveTheNeedle movement was started among ACTUAL comic fans who have been massively buying up the comics they love and encouraging others to do the same.

So I'm afraid I'm not the one living in an "echo chamber", Sweetie Pie. SJWs do NOT buy comics, if they did, the comic industry wouldn't have suffered a NINETY PERCENT SALES LOSS!

And no, SJW is not a "meaningless buzzword", it's actually pretty well defined in most social circles. Some of those definitions vary a bit from community to community, but they're all pretty much the same thing.

Hypersensitive snowflakes looking to self-victimize by creating baseless controversy, inciting faux outrage and making mountains out of mole hills.

…that pretty much covers the lot of you. Some groups like to throw in a bit of blue haired prose of course, but at your core… you are simply The Internet Outrage Machine. You do not care about the causes you purport to support and you are more often than not DAMAGING to those very subscribed causes, effectively acting as your own worst enemy. The only thing you care about… is being ANGRY about shit. You don't really care what it is, you just want to be ENRAGED and you couch that base level human deficiency in the guise of being some kind of revolutionary or intuitive reformer, a so called "progressive"… when in reality you're exactly the opposite… a self-destructive, regressive leech looking to slime your aimless infuriation over everything you come into contact with.

That's all you are, that's your core.. you are just a HATEFUL person. There is nothing more to you than that.

>>52997

>Hypersensitive snowflakes looking to self-victimize by creating baseless controversy, inciting faux outrage and making mountains out of mole hills.

I didn't realise you self-identified as a SJW. You should probably expand your sample size to more than your own experience though.

Jokes aside, I think I just pity you for your delusions now. I just wanted to make fun of how much you were over-reacting to subreddit drama without realising how serious you were. I'm not into messing with indoctrinated beliefs, especially on an imageboard so I mean, I'll leave you to it.

>>53020

So you were trying to make fun of someone who was making fun of stupid shit on Reddit… but you fucked up so bad you thought that they were "over-reacting" to Reddit dra-wha… WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU EVEN SAYING?!

…holy shit dude. I mean if you want to try and troll people… okay, but don't just sit there in the fuckin boat and throw the whole fishing pole right on into the water.

>>52974

Ya know, it's weird. The discord is full of insane trannies and furries, fat neckbeards, and people who normally would be incredibly irritating. But for some reason in that discord server they aren't. I can't explain it. Maybe it's just because there's no karma or any way to upvote. I've seen the way some of these people post on DA and other sites and it's standard redditer shit. The discord seems to quell the autism or at least make it not irritating.

Since this thread is linked by the trannies over on r/abdl I just want to make something clear:

Trans women are not women. They are men who are deluded in thinking they were born in the wrong bodies. This is akin to people with Cotard Delusion, only we don't tell people suffering from Cotard that they are in fact dead and are wandering the earth.

If it's hate speech to notice a difference between people born with vaginas and operating reproductive systems and men who believe they should have been born with vaginas and operating reproductive systems, then I have no problem engaging in hate speech since apparently that designation means absolutely nothing any more.

I don't give a fuck if you're transgender. I will even use whatever pronoun you want me to use. But asking me to accept your delusion that you are a female because you want me to is simply asking too much. I may not have a problem with individual transgender people, but it seems that any time they become a sizable minority they fuck up an entire fanbase by demanding that people see them in a fashion that they do not present and have no right to claim membership in. And then they label anyone a bigot who refuses to see them in the way they demand. They can fuck right off.

>>53069

of all the cringe posts in this cringe thread this one is by far the cringiest

>>53071

you're not a woman and it's not my fault

>>53069

glad someone finally said it

>>53069

Both sides are just arguing semantics. Gender can be defined in so many different ways depending on which biological component or societal role you're focusing on that it's next to useless to argue about it. It's just a waste of time and effort to try and defend any particular stance on the issue. It's like getting enraged every time someone describes a tomato as a vegetable.

I hate SJWs and feminists as much as anyone, but the whole thing is a complete waste of everyone's time and energy.

>>53069

This is why we don't have laymen deciding these things. Go bemoan to international psychiatric associations, and keep these political Faux-intellectualism out of a fap board.

You think what you say is insightful and wise, but it just reveals your stupidity. Real talk.

>>53076

To add:

You should know better by now that saying stupid shit is going to get you banned. Do you think that you can go onto any levelheaded subreddit talking about how black people aren't really human and how it's not your fault? Do you seriously believe that anyone would tolerate that shit? Have some self awareness of where you are and why what you say may piss some people off.

What's worse is that you say this dumb shit then vent it all out here on a fap board. They really must have set you off. Are you looking for validation? It would be better to analyze why you think the way you do. And wonder why psychiatric associations hold certain views concerning trans men and women as well as the prescribed course of action (which is to transition btw, but not always).

It's nice of you to use the pronouns they want, because it's really just makes you a stubborn asshole otherwise. If someone with dwarfism came up to me, and I called him a midget, but asked me that he prefers 'little person', I would say that instead. It's basic common courtesy; Simple human interactions. If I continued to call him a midget, that would make me a cunt.

So ok, you don't accept their purported gender, fine, but have the self-awareness enough to know that telling people that an integral part of themselves is a delusion is going to have it's consequences. And that maybe, people that run these subreddits don't want that kind of unfriendly atmosphere for their guests.

Besides, they are around 0.5% of the total population, you probably never even ran into one. And if you did, you may never have noticed. It's not this Earth shattering consequence, and it's a waste of time and energy to pick this as your battle.

Live in peace.

>>53071

>of all the cringe posts in this cringe thread this one is by far the cringiest

Go back to Reddit if you want a hugbox, you're a man with a mutilated penis, a mental illness and nothing more. You'll NEVER be a woman no mater how hard you try to take pills or mutilate your dick.

Explained better here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s653b8v8024

There's this person on a forum i use who's been talking about transitioning and I love the guy, i want to be a better friend and help him. But if i say anything all this confirmation he gets will just make him hate me. They don't understand that this isn't a solution. They don't understand that this is a temporary and very short sighted fix to their problems. It makes me want to cry and i have. I felt terrible after seeing that one cute blonde twink go trans because I get it. I went through a twink phase and a crossdresser phase, was a little late to trap stuff but still tried. I get it, but fortunately I have the discipline to stop myself from getting too into the fantasy. It kills me to see people who dive so deep into the kink rabbit hole. It's really sad on a lot of levels. It's very much like a drug addiction. You get that wonderful dopamine rush when you post pictures and get all this attention. You love that feeling of being seen a special and cute. It's chasing the dragon and that only leads to negative places. I work retail in a city with lots of pozz and sometimes i see these people who chased the dragon trying to do normal things and you can tell how ashamed they are and how angry at the world they've become because of it. Or i even see people living the morning after a night on fantasy island who walk into my store all fucked up and looking like they want to die. It's nothing but tragic that chasing the dragon has mainstream support, that doctors are willing to create these open wounds on people that traumatize and force them into an even worse state. HRT is one thing but the actual surgery is just so sad. I don't understand how someone can look at the reality of that and even think it should be legal. It ruins people's lives, it brings nothing but pain.

>>53076

>>53077

You're disgusting. You're not anyone's ally by saying things like this. You want to act like you care about people but all you're doing is protecting your own status and allowing someone you supposedly care about to be in pain. You're not expressing love, you're effectively expressing hatred. Love is actually trying to help people better themselves. Hate is being selfish and passive at the expense of someone else.

and just to correct an idea you have, psychiatry is not science and psychiatric journals do not uphold standards in objectivity. Science in general has become extremely political because figure heads have become extremely political. But psychiatry has always been political on top of being experimental and absurd. There's more standards and barrier to entry to being a hair dresser than being someone with a voice in the psychiatric community. The whole premise that allows for thinking that transgenderism is acceptable is based on the very flawed notion that people are individuals first and society members second. They choose to completely ignore everything else and act as if your personal choices exist in a vacuum.

>>53080

>The whole premise that allows for thinking that transgenderism is acceptable is based on the very flawed notion that people are individuals first and society members second.

What do you mean by this? It sounds like something from the more authoritarian end of communism.

>>53080

Appeal to emotion melodrama aside:

Give me a break. You'd rather bloggers and YouTube celebrities decide the best course of action for these people than people with working knowledge on the subject.

You aren't helping anyone with your subtle hatred for your so-called friend. You call it love but this is what we call projection. What you just said about me oozes from your reply to me. I recommend some soul searching.

>>53082

It's the idea that you shouldn't consider anything outside of your own mind when making decisions.

>Do you like it? Does it make you feel good? Then it is good. Don't worry about how your socialization will be effected nor the way that will make you feel. The most important thing is that you appeal to YOUR desires. Considering other people and the way that socialization makes you feel is bad and is a problem

I guess that's basically it. It doesn't really have anything to do with communism directly but comes from the basic ideas of trying to hack human nature. But the outcome isn't hacking human nature, it's throwing a wrench in the gears and convincing the people that it's the gear's fault, not the wrench.

>>53083

>the best course of action for these people

The very idea that this is some sort of medical condition that needs to be treated is absurd and has no basis in reality. Nobody has ever treated mental illness like this until it became a profitable outfitting and rent seeking operation. But by all means if you want to perpetuate the careers of plastic surgeons and psychiatrists go right ahead. You want to act like this is the surgeon general warning people that smoking is bad, but in reality it's people with an interest in creating and perpetuating the field who are confirming it's legitimacy. Really, some irrelevant person on YT has more credibility because they don't have any direct stake in this. It's always so clear when people have no idea what they're talking about. Like obviously you have no experience with the world of mental healthcare. They do two things, they sell you shit, or they bullshit you around until you say you're fine and leave. These are not real doctors and they don't have any incentive to truly look out for your best interests.

I also seriously doubt you understand what inherent pain it is to be a fag. That psychological torture is not normal and is not healthy. It's a fucking cancer that you deal with and hopefully you don't chase any dragons and live a semi-normal life. You fucking signalling retards with your fake empathy and grievance mongering is disgusting

>>53084

I'm still not really sure I understand your criticism of individualism. It sounds like you're just saying people shouldn't be selfish and should plan ahead a bit, which is fair enough but hardly incompatible with individualism.

If you're saying that people shouldn't have the freedom to modify their own bodies or even end their own lives at will, then that goes way beyond "not being selfish". You'd be demanding far more conformity and obedience from other people than you'd ever let them demand from you if the roles were reversed.

There are plenty of good medical arguments against having any kind of plastic surgery done, but "think of society" isn't one of them.

This might be my last post in the thread, since these debates never go anywhere or achieve anything productive. I have my own grievances with the world, so I really don't need to waste time getting tangled up in other people's grievances as well.

>>53077

>Do you think that you can go onto any levelheaded subreddit talking about how black people aren't really human and how it's not your fault?

The "Back to Reddit" meme has never been more appropriate.

Can we just go back on bashing Reddit rather than argue semantics about trannies?

Some guy just went batshit crazy and posted pictures of self harm. I'll get the popcorns.

>>53069

>They are men who are deluded in thinking they were born in the wrong bodies.

That's romanticised phrasing, but not what it actually is. You're talking about males with the wrong hard-wired gender instincts. Maybe individuals have spiritual delusions, but religion and spirituality is accepted into society.

People transition as a form of body expression and in part *because* they're trying to be integrated into society. Since there's an obsession with gender binary, hipster carving your own gender identity is only really going to work in entertainment industry or something.

Internet activism tends to be dumb on whatever sides and don't always carry the best sentiments, but at the heart of it, transwomen are only looking to be socially recognised as female, not physically recognised as female. Individuals can find themselves demanding more, but that's their own over-reaching idealism and spirituality. And I mean as far as "socially recognised" is concerned, I mean something like pronouns and not getting screwed by the way laws are binary written.

Like I think this situation is dumb. I'm sure plenty of transwomen and social justice supporters think this situation is dumb. It's just unnecessarily trying to bully a subreddit for not being called 'r/cisgirlsindiapers' or something.

And I mean, it's pointless to say, but no one is born with 'operating reproductive systems'. Probably should of said 'female reproductive organs'.

>>53080

There's a reason why transitioning is gated by mental health professionals. To weed out all the people who just have a kink. You haven't described gender dysphoria at all.

People grow up with gender dysphoria from the moment they comprehend the concept of gender because they're constantly being pushed away from their instincts. They hate their body for betraying them. Their life is already ruined because they're imitating most of their behaviors and opinions and emotionally withdrawn. That emotional burden is what's hurting them.

People chasing a fantasy shouldn't be transitioning. Drink some reality before you decide on body modification, but I mean that should apply to any body modification. They're choosing to become a transwoman, not a ciswoman. The point is only giving people the chance to express their gender instincts.

>>53088

It's not "think of society". Jesus christ I feel like i've already spelled this out but i'll do it again. This is about being so self absorbed that you ignore the fact that you don't live in a vacuum, that you're not in a video game or some other controlled environment. That the things you do have consequences to yourself and others. I'm talking about ignoring your own socialization, not some abstract of "society". A trans person is ignoring their own socialization. They ignore the fact that they can't just cosplay as a female and thus be treated as a female. They end up killing themselves and being utterly miserable because their socialization has been ruined. Nobody else can or will replicate the fantasy in their head. Trying to acknowledge the fantasy only leads to pain. The very fact that you immediately revert to-

>If you're saying that people shouldn't have the freedom

proves that individualism is a cancer. This dichotomy of either I can do whatever i want or else it's total authoritarianism. You do not live in a video game.

>>53102

>weed out all the people who just have a kink

>You haven't described gender dysphoria at all.

and i'm not going to. That's not even a thing. There exists no specified condition where someone has the mind of the opposite gender. What does exist are problems with your endocrine system. Maybe if this was actually treated like the problem it is by real doctors, they might just cure it all together. There's reason to believe that rounds of hormone balancing drugs actually increase quality of life, but there's no real money in a cure, or drugs that are already generic or experimental. Nor is there any massive social push to seek a cure.

If this is a serious condition that requires treatment, there is zero evidence to suggest that transitioning is helpful. Yet there is plenty of reason to believe that it is harmful. If it's just muh individualism then whatever. But you can't have both. You can't justify this insanity by constantly code switching from individualistic argumentation and serious medical considerations. Frankly, both are shitty arguments. The idea that wouldn't stop someone from hurting themselves is disgusting. The idea that you would sanction a community of money grubbing "doctors" that are willing to hurt people is even more disgusting.

>>52427

where else are you supposed to be other ageplayers, dumbass?

>>53104

I think there's a huge difference between the statements, "doing <x> is a bad idea" and "people shouldn't be allowed to do <x>". You seem to be advocating the latter, which is why you're getting labeled as an authoritarian.

>Maybe if this was actually treated like the problem it is by real doctors, they might just cure it all together.

Read up on the history of it. Doctors spent decades trying to treat it as a simple neurological problem and utterly failed. Our technology is a very long way away from being able to treat fundamental psychological problems like gender dysphoria. Either you'd need to catch it during early development before any symptoms manifested, or you'd need to rewire the brain in-situ.

I agree the current treatment approach isn't really beneficial to a lot of people, but you're grossly oversimplifying an extremely complicated problem. Ever heard of the Dunning--Kruger effect?

>>53102

He's not going to change his mind The Dunning-Kruger effect definitely applies to this one.

Nothings more frustrating than a laymen claiming to know more than experts.

"The Death of Expertise" calls out his kind.

>>53094

I hear there are some tiki-torches for sale. You may be interested.

>>53116

>appeal to authority

I was waiting patiently for this one. No, that's not what an appeal to authority is. It's not an appeal to authority to refer someone to expert in a particular field.

I'll help you out. Here is an example of appeal to authority:

"My doctor is very smart. She studied virology and immunology, so her views on economics are correct."

It's not an appeal to authority to refer to those with expertise knowledge in the topic at hand. In other words, if you want to know something about evolution, you go to someone well acquainted in that field. You ask a paleontologist, rather than a dentist, about evolution.

And don't feel so defensive about the Dunning-Kruger, everyone is susceptible to it. That's a little known fact about the effect. Dunning-Kruger himself talks about it in an interview. Whenever you don't know that you don't know, you are susceptible. You just happen to fall victim to it with this one topic. You may be a nice guy, but this one topic turns you into a complete shithead, honestly.

>>53117

>appeal to authority

I'll add to it:

"You said that because an authority thinks something, it must therefore be true.

**It's important to note that this fallacy should not be used to dismiss the claims of experts, or scientific consensus. Appeals to authority are not valid arguments, but nor is it reasonable to disregard the claims of experts who have a demonstrated depth of knowledge unless one has a similar level of understanding and/or access to empirical evidence.*

However, it is entirely possible that the opinion of a person or institution of authority is wrong; therefore the authority that such a person or institution holds does not have any intrinsic bearing upon whether their claims are true or not."

>>53117

oh wow another non argument post

Also yes, you are appealing to authority. You're claiming to be correct because a supposed authority supposedly agrees with you. You entire argument rests on the idea that somebody is correct because you claim them to be an authority. You can't and won't demonstrate that these authorities are correct, nor can you even reasonably claim them to be authorities on this subject. What claims are you even making or refuting? You're just making word salad trying to defend this cancer.

You can really tell how tenuous a position is when it immediately devolves into meta-argumentation.

>>53116

Hey where did that come from?

I mean, the popular usage. I mean the Dunning Kruger thing has been around for nearly 20 years and centuries before as the concept of illusory superiority… but I've noticed just in the past couple years or so suddenly it's jumped its way right on into the realm of pop psychology… so I've been wondering what piece of shlock level mainstream media it was that kicked off this trend amongst pseudo intellectual asshats.

My blind guess would probably be that Big Bang Theory show. I know it's not Rick And Morty because I've actually watched that (dumb shows to make people feel smart).

>>53098

He was always a complete spaz, so it was to be expected. That's why you tell people like that to fuck off from the very start.

>>53109

>I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to do something. I'm saying you shouldn't do it.

That's fine then. I completely agree with that.

>I mean I realize you probably saw some BBC doc about this and think that it's all been figured out because you're retarded and just assume authority from anyone with a degree or who's wearing a labcoat…

I tend to distrust anything on TV, especially state-run media, but what you're suggesting seems extremely unlikely. There are plenty of reliable sources indicating that psychiatrists have encountered transvestitism and gender dysphoria since at least the start of the 20th century. There are also a couple of sources which claim they were experimenting with hormone therapies in the 1920s. Admittedly I can't find many historical sources which give any kind of specifics of what was tried, but I find it hard to believe they didn't try to cure the psychological side of the problem.

I mean, I'd certainly support more research into alternative treatments, but I wouldn't be optimistic about any kind of success. When MRI scans show physical differences in brain structure, it's probably past the point where drugs can have much impact. The psychiatric research community seem to agree. How do you envisage a non-surgical treatment working? Detect the problem in infancy and treat it while the brain is still developing?

I'm not trying to be intellectually dishonest here. I admit I'm far from an expert on the subject, but I'm at least aware of just how complex the human brain is and how primitive our tools are in comparison.

>>53084

Given that the suicide rates among transsexuals only compares to the suicide rates among schizophrenics… mmm… yeah, yeah I'd say it needs to be treated.

And given that "transitioning" doesn't actively curb that suicide rate, in fact the suicide numbers between pre op and post op transsexuals is nearly identical… well… obviously gender reassignment surgery isn't as helpful as many would like to think.

It's best to think of it like anorexia. If a person suffers from anorexia it really doesn't matter how skinny the person gets or how much they starve themselves because, in their damaged minds, they will NEVER see themselves as being skinny enough.

It's the same with transsexuals, no matter how much they mutilate their bodies to resemble the opposite gender, no matter how much society tries to bend to their delusions, no matter how easily they might "pass"… it doesn't matter, because they will NEVER see themselves as being "woman enough" or "man enough".

Gender reassignment surgery is more often than not a kind of temporary high, much in the way anorexics get from drastically reducing their caloric intakes. They feel a sense of accomplishment, of self-righteous affirmation… but it's fleeting and the need, the WANT to keep pushing it further and further and further does not end.

And that's one of the reasons why we have all this "identity politics" nonsense. Because we gave the trannies what they wanted… we gave them gender reassignment surgery, we pretty well effectively normalized it back in the early 2Ks… and that should have been it… but the trannies keep pushing, now trying to actively inflict their psychosis onto others in the realm of politics, education, finance/markets, etc, etc, etc… because it will NEVER be enough for them.

>>53120

It's from the reddit/atheist/debate world of fart huffing retards. They love argumentation ethics and meta analysis. It's something that people like the idiots i'm arguing with love because you can use $10 terms and meta analysis to derail and move the goal post. It's a very easy way to corner the average normalfag and make yourself seem intelligent.

>>53122

Alright, let's just assume that all your premises are true. The "treatments", every one of them, have an ultimately negative impact. The suicide rate goes up after treatment. Bottom surgery is just an open wound. It's the equivalent to giving a starving person a plate of shit. It's a horribly mentally and literally scaring thing that is a fucking tragic thing to read about when post-op trannies get honest about it. Now you want to know what the solution is? I don't know, it's a mental illness, there isn't a solution. But I know what we can do that will actually help people and avoid a worse quality of life. Don't let them do this shit, don't promote it, don't act like it's the greatest thing ever. Don't tell kids that it's brave to be a tranny. Fucking be a friend if you know one and appreciate the body they have.. The only time you should be encouraging someone changing their body is if they're really over/underweight. Reality is some things are just unfortunate. That tends to be a hard thing to grasp for most people. What we used to do with crazy people is try and make them normal or keep them safe and away from normal people. That's what we should do now. I mean the biggest problem with trannies is socialization. It's so much about their body as much as it is about the perception of them.

Or you could just kill them. Honestly a sane society would just kill all of us but we live in clown world. We wouldn't even manifest if we didn't live in clown world. That's a whole other subject but the amplification of the number of crazy people something to consider itself.

>>53123

>more often than not a kind of temporary high

Exactly that's why I was talking about chasing the dragon earlier. Our culture has become very conducive toward attention addiction and self centered-ness. If you ever read the way some trannies talk about their lives it's like they live in a movie staring themselves. The number of trannies in entertainment is probably way higher relative to their population than any other group.

>>53104

Is gender all socialization? If so, who the hell cares if people want to act out a different socialization.

Is gender biological? Then perhaps entertain for a second that someone's brain might not have the normal structures of the gender they appear to be, and may in fact be close to the other gender.

I tend toward the second belief.

I highly doubt anyone will care about demonizing trans people once technology advances enough to give them bodies indistinguishable from genetic females… indeed, one day, the idea of a person having set, immutable genes will be a relic.

>>53128

And some more for good measure. I won't mess the formatting up this time.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958

>After gender reassignment, in young adulthood, the GD was alleviated and psychological functioning had steadily improved. Well-being was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21937168

>SADS, HAD-A, and HAD-Depression (HAD-D) mean scores were significantly higher among patients who had not begun cross-sex hormonal treatment compared with patients in hormonal treatment (F=4.362, p=.038; F=14.589, p=.001; F=9.523, p=.002 respectively). Similarly, current symptoms of anxiety and depression were present in a significantly higher percentage of untreated patients than in treated patients (61% vs. 33% and 31% vs. 8% respectively).

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jsm.12155/abstract

>When treated with hormone therapy, transsexuals reported significantly lower CAR (P < 0.001), falling within the normal range for cortisol levels. Treated transsexuals showed also lower perceived stress (P < 0.001), with levels similar to normative samples. The insecure attachment styles were associated with higher CAR and perceived stress in untreated transsexuals (P < 0.01).

>>53128

You obviously haven't read any of that… especially since you included multiple instances of the same study on different sites.

My favorite part…

"selected studies using predetermined inclusion and exclusion criteria"

…that's uh… wow… that's some anti-vaxxer level manipulation right there.

Almost all of their data is based off self-reported survey responses and it looks like almost all of it is within the first year after surgery.

For most transsexuals the "honeymoon period" ends after about five to ten years on average.

>>53129

And yet more bullshit you didn't actually read…

"We investigated 70 transsexual patients. We measured the cortisol levels and the perceived stress before starting the hormonal therapy and after about 12 months."

Sample size is too small and they only looked at patients within the first YEAR after surgery… bad science… you really have no idea what you're even linking to, do you?

>>53129

Geez what a load of shit…

"A total of 55 young transgender adults (22 transwomen and 33 transmen) who had received puberty suppression during adolescence were assessed 3 times"

Translation: We gave 55 trannies a survey 3 times… SCIENCE!

>>53128

>trannies claim they are better off after we doing the thing everyone says is so great

Well that's not what i said now is it? I said the actual suicide rates go up, nothing about their claimed comfort levels. The fact is the rates go up after transitioning, specifically after bottom surgery and this fact has not been refuted. They are hard numbers.

http://journals.plos.org.osone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

The important thing about this study is that it is considerate of long term implications, unlike what you just posted. Of course they're feeling good and flying high in the prime of their life, thinking they've been fulfilled, surrounded by people telling them so. But 10 years down the line when the twink body is gone, when they're not interested or don't have time to constantly maintain the facade, they're fucked. They can't just start lifting and go a different direction like someone like me did after getting over this shit. They ruined their body and eventually they realize that.

>>53129

See above

and I should also point out that this kind of data is totally useless. This pain-scale tier cancer of asking patients how they feel is not scientific and is only ever used as propaganda and to sell pills. The actual effects and functions of the treatments are what matters. Ya know, i'm sure a schizophrenic would say he's really happy with the lack of skin on his arm but objectively he's not any better off having chewed it off.

>>53130

>>53131

and now watch them continue to not make any arguments

>>53132

You can alter your brain structure by doing a lot of drugs or being dehydrated too. I mean I don't think you understand how this kind of shit functions. Just because it's different does not mean it's healthy. Like I don't even understand the logic you're using in saying this. Your endocrine system can make you psychically different, that's not a revelation at all. They have a hormone imbalance that isn't congruent to their sex.

>>53135

You fucked the link up. Here you go:

http://journals.plos.org.osone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

Participants

>All 324 sex-reassigned persons (191 male-to-females, 133 female-to-males) in Sweden, 1973--2003. Random population controls (10∶1) were matched by birth year and birth sex or reassigned (final) sex, respectively.

Conclusions

>Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population.

Note that it is comparing them to the general population, not transsexuals who have not undergone surgery.

In fact, a bit more digging shows that the author of that paper, Dr. Dhejne, has explicitly refuted your interpretation of it.

http://transadvocate.com/fact-check-study-shows-transition-makes-trans-people-suicidal_n_15483.htm

Care to try again?

>>53132

It's actually both.

Sex is generally male or female, excluding genetic abnormalities and statistically irrelevant outliers. Gender is more like masculinity and femininity. Like you can be a masculine man, but you can also be an effeminate man.

And gender roles are a mix of social constructs and sexual dimorphism, meaning some aspects of what's considered masculine and feminine can change or evolve over time, while other parts (linked to biology) are largely ingrained.

But beyond all that you also have sexual attachments, largely rooted in dominant and submissive forms they can generally take on ANY exterior form so long as you personally can shape it into your personal preference for either dominance or submission. And at any extreme, whether you want to talk about people who have a rape fetish or people who get off sexually on the fantasy of cooking and eating people (see: Dolcett Archive). Even in such extremes they're all still rooted in sexual dominance and sexual submission.

So, there are basically FIVE major things that make you, you.

1. Your inherent biology. (generally male or female barring a genetic fuckup)

2. Your inherent and/or acquired sexual connections (basically what fetishes you have)

3. Your inherent and potentially variable need for effeminate and masculine roles/identity.

4. Social influence (which is variable, as are the potential reactions to it).

5. The role/label you want to play.

6. Chemical production and utilization in the brain.

What's interesting is that back in the 1950s gender was believed to be an entirely social construct and as such, when they accidentally damaged little boy's penises in botched circumcisions… they just gave them sex changes and raised them as girls… which worked great… up until the point they hit adolescences/adulthood… then they all killed themselves! :D

Except for like one and only because they wound up a permanent resident in an insane asylum. They were also the only one that didn't revert back to their natural gender.

The thing that people don't understand is that a lot of it has to deal with hormones and how they affect physical/mental development. Boys have testosterone… and girls have estrogen. For boys their hormones automatically gear them more towards physical/adversarial/competitive learning forms where as girls are centered more towards emotional/sharing/social learning forms.

Ironically if they took an oppositional approach to the current favored "treatment" they might actually get better results… that is if a man feels like a woman… well instead of giving them female hormones… give them male hormones instead. Basically try and treat the brain to match the body rather than mutilate the body to try and match the brain.

But ultimately it's just body dysmorphic disorder, same as anorexia. In other words it's largely just self-esteem based. A person hates who they are so they want to try and change themselves to avoid or run away from that negative perception of themselves.

>>53136

It's the word filter breaking the link.

This one should work:

https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

>>53139

Sorry, six, not five. LOL

>>53136

>Note that it is comparing them to the general population, not transsexuals who have not undergone surgery.

Utterly irrelevant.

>"In fact, a bit more digging shows that the author of that paper, Dr. Dhejne, has explicitly refuted your interpretation of it."

Yeah I saw that kvetching muh republican back peddling. She's fucking Swedish in the current year and she's also not the first person to deny their own finding after the fact.

>>53142

>Utterly irrelevant.

Are you an idiot or do you just not give a fuck about intellectual honesty? Do you even understand the point you were trying to make? Do you understand what the purpose of a control group in an experiment is?

The paper explicitly says

>no inferences can be drawn as to the effectiveness of sex reassignment as a treatment for transsexualism. In other words, the results should not be interpreted such as sex reassignment per se increases morbidity and mortality.

If you're going to cite a source, the least you could do is read it you absolute imbecile.

>>53139

So you acknowledge that simply raising a boy as a girl or vice versa doesn't work, which obviously suggests nature is the greater part of what makes up a person's gender, and that you can't simply change it by different socialization.

And then you go on to claim it's the same as BDD. Unbelievable. It's obviously caused by something physical.

Sex differences exist before hormones- you can't masculinize a brain by giving somebody testosterone. It's already been immutably feminized in the womb. Prenatal hormones have different effects than post-natal hormones. It's irreversible.

Here's the kicker to all of this. You're trying to argue over suicide rates relative to cutting someone's penis off and leaving a gaping wound. This shit is just so ridiculous to argue over.

>>53146

>This shit is just so ridiculous to argue over.

It really is.

On one side we've got the entire medical profession backed by hundreds of studies. On the other side we've got some moron with very strong opinions.

>>53148

You know who else has "hundreds of studies"… antivaxxers…

https://healthimpactnews.com/2013/30-scientific-studies-showing-the-link-between-vaccines-and-autism/

>>53076

>I'm going to denounce you with this concise post because you're not worth my time and this is a fap board

>>53077

>no wait I'm not getting enough attention I better write a fucking blog post about why you're wrong but I'm totally not triggered

lol ok

>You should know better by now that saying stupid shit is going to get you banned.

Doubt it faggot, this isn't r/abdl, go join the 41% and attempt suicide tranny

> Do you think that you can go onto any levelheaded subreddit talking about how black people aren't really human and how it's not your fault?

No, but I can't even go to any reddit and quote FBI crime stats about blacks, so I wouldn't use reddit as a bastion of intellectual discourse.

> Are you looking for validation?

No, I'm looking for you fuckers to stop pretending that disagreeing with your delusions is tantamount to hate speech and needs to be eradicated

>which is to transition btw, but not always

These the same psychiatric associations advocating for trans youth to take hormone blockers to delay puberty and then turn around and tell us there are no negative effects to this process?

> And that maybe, people that run these subreddits don't want that kind of unfriendly atmosphere for their guests.

Neither do they want any opinion that challenges their beliefs.

>Besides, they are around 0.5% of the total population, you probably never even ran into one.

Unfortunately, I happen to have the cancer known as "diaper fetishism" so anytime I go to a con or meetup there's likely to be some fucking trannies milling about

>>53099

>You're talking about males with the wrong hard-wired gender instincts.

You have literally no more proof of this than I do in saying that people with Cotard Delusion have the wrong hard-wired existential instincts. Why is one a mental illness and the other needs to be accepted by society?

>transwomen are only looking to be socially recognised as female

wonderful, they're free to do so and I'm free to disagree. I'm not a bigot just because I don't think a man is a woman just because he tells me he is. As I already mentioned, I'm even willing to go along with their delusion and refer to them as however they want, but privately and personally I am never going to accept their delusion, period. And they cannot make me think differently and they cannot make the vast majority of the populace.

> I mean something like pronouns and not getting screwed by the way laws are binary written.

Well that depends on what laws we're talking about. Trannies got C-16 passed in Canada and now Canadians can literally be fined for misgendering people. I think Jordan Peterson is far from the messiah but he got that one right and that's why he's popular. To pretend like transgender acceptance never overreaches and just seeks personal respect is ridiculous in the light of that bill being passed (and similar bills passed in city councils in the US, notably in New York and San Francisco)

>And I mean, it's pointless to say, but no one is born with 'operating reproductive systems'

Yes they are, they're just not developed yet.

>>53146

I mean, let's be fair, it's not cutting off, it's cutting up and origami with flesh

>>53119

>You can't and won't demonstrate that these authorities are correct

The onus is on you. You are literally going against experts on an international scale. Your lack of respect and humility for the expertise is not on me.

Anti-vaxxers do the same shit. Call attention to how they believe vaccinations causes autism, then misuse the appeal to authority fallacy as a fallacy in of itself.

You already trust in an authority, but you won't admit to it. It's just your authority doesn't have anywhere near the same degree of understanding on the subject as an actual expert would. You received this idea that an entire body of international experts are wrong from somewhere. Are you going to invoke pseudosymmetry of scientific authority next?

Do you have any facts or official statements by doctors or biologists, or any pertinent field, that suggests what you say about trans men and women? No, of course not, because you know that they would refer you elsewhere to learn more about it. A primary care physician is just going to give their patient complaining of dysphoria a referral for a therapist to see them. This is why we don't have Mr. 4chan/pol/ to decide the best course of action for a highly complex issue that your kind love to simplify just as laymen tend to do.

>>53166

And that's the real problem isn't? Because psychology and psychiatry aren't hard sciences, so you can pretty well back them up with whatever random bullshit you like.

Actual doctors will almost never recommend transitioning because it involves jacking your body up with massive levels of foreign hormones (usually derived from horse urine), which can lead to all sorts of crazy stupid complications.

And cosmetic surgery is something regular doctors won't ever recommend either, as it's considered unnecessary surgery (ie not something to save or prolong your life).

The hard fact of the matter is if you want to transition you almost always need to find a "trans friendly" doctor, that is a doctor willing to compromise medical ethics based on personal belief (or personal gain).

And if you've ever seen how those outfits operate it's very often run like some kind of estranged cult rather than a doctors office.

It's pretty hilarious to see you mimic my posts and try to use anti-vaxxers to support your craziness since transsexuals are very much in the minority as is the belief that sexual reassignment surgery is the best course of action.

If your beliefs were anywhere even remotely rooted in reality it wouldn't be so hard for transsexuals to transition. You obviously know VERY little about the subject since you seem to think you can just pop in to any doctors office, get a referral to a therapist and BOOM, you're off to the plastic surgeon.

Sorry, but it doesn't work that way and it's VERY hard to transition because of the fact that most doctors do NOT easily buy into it (again given the suicide rates, hormone complications, etc). Hence the reason all the cult level "support networks" exist, so trannies can hoard around the small group of doctors actually willing to mutilate their bodies in an effective medical echo chamber.

>>53168

Still waiting on that official statement. You're just posting a bunch of nothing. Again, the onus is on you.

And no, I never suggested it was easy. The referral isn't to get an ok for surgery. The referral is to start the process to see if such a thing as realignment surgery is necessary for that particular patient. There are many trans men and women that never transition. Trans don't all suffer from dysphoria, and not all dysphorics need surgery.

At the end of the day, I either listen to some guy on the internet, or people that deal with these cases for decades.

>"trans friendly"

Doctors aren't exempt from discrimination. The same was needed for gays, and it still is depending on where you live.

>>53168

Wow, I did not know it was possible to be so wrong about so much at the same time

>>53169

Actually the burden of proof is on you, as I already discredited every last one of your play pretend studies and exposed their glaring flaws (most of which were the exact same flaws exposed in the most recent anti-vaxxer studies).

Meanwhile, in reality…

http://journals.plos.org.osone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

You notice that's a LONG TERM study, not a 12 month after surgery survey like the majority of your debunked bullshit.

>>53171

Meanwhile, in reality, you have no clue what you are talking about. This is why we use the Dunning-Kruger to describe you guys. We aren't using it to feel smart, superior, or any of that sort. We aren't even calling you stupid. It doesn't mean that you're unintelligent. It means you are too ignorant to know why you are ignorant. It's a common misconception to associate the effect with being dumb, because everyone's susceptible.

I didn't even post those studies, btw. It was someone else. There are no IDs here, so theres no way of you to know.

Also, your link doesn't work. Posting a single study isn't how this works. There's an entire process involved. It get's published, peer-reviewed, and it gets expanded on, which can take decades of back and forth and citations of studies, which is also important.

>>53174

Hopefully this will bypass the word filters…

https://itsssl.com/mVZut

And once again when faced with irrefutable scientific evidence you retard back into pseudo intellectual insults to try and "feel smart, superior".

And one GOOD STUDY is worth a million BAD STUDIES… quality over quantity kiddo.

And if you don't want people to assume you're the same person posting from the same corner as the one you're supporting, well you're more than free to use a unique name… otherwise don't whine and snit about the inherent nature of posting anonymously.

The bottom line is transsexuals are killing themselves at a rate only comparable to schizophrenics. That is an irrefutable FACT!

And further, transsexual reassignment surgery has only been shown to be beneficial in the short term, in the long term it's been proven to be wholly ineffective as a means of treatment.

All the studies your side has posted… are not only biased/manipulated self-reported survey responses, but they all extend no further than 12 months after surgery… there's a reason for that. If you're too stupid to figure it out… well… sorry, but I don't think I can fix that.

>>53066

Until they bring mr.cuckseeks, so they can have their pseudo upvote via buttload of messages.

>>53071

God dammit. Can't dudes just get off dressing like a cute little girl without hormones, surgery, and an incessant need to tell everyone who doesn't like you that you're a transphobe because you're 50 in a mall dressed like a 2-year-old girl?

>>52396 (OP)

>I'm so happy 8ch exists and isn't invaded by faggots.

laughing_anime_girls.gif

>>55278

bump, need some ideas?