/islam/ - 8kun Masjid

>>44961

>>44962

>>44963

Can't respond in one post?

>From all of the earliest Sunni and Shi'a sources today available to us, it does appear that the earliest Muslims believed the letter "nun" in the Qur'an surah 68:1 refers to a giant whale upon whose back the entire earth rests. This belief is attributed by all of the trusted sources of Islamic jurisprudence to "tarjumaan al-qur'an" ibn Abbas and was mentioned thereafter by many trusted Islamic scholars all the way up until the 19th century - though they mention it alongside other different interpretations. According to this cosmogony, the earth is (actually the 7 earths are) attached to the back of the whale by means of the mountains, which are pegs to balance the earth upon the Nun's back. This cosmogony fits in with a widespread ancient belief that the world was balanced upon the back of giant animals, and the even more primordial belief that the world is surrounded by a giant, unending body of water.

Link me the hadith. The specific hadith. Not opinions of scholars, not the interpretation of a letter in the Quran. I want the hadith.

>Humor and whimsy are integral parts of Islam

It is the truth, whether you like it or not. Several scientists have converted to Islam based on the scientific miracles contained in the Quran. Not "humor and whimsy".

I answered your question, and you got mad about it. Because your point wasn't to get answers, but to try and incite Muslims by defaming their religion.

>>44967

Awwwww the little snowflake got triggered. I hope someday you choose to study Islam instead of crying about others who studied it before you. The amusing anecdote about nun is not defamation. Refusing to acknowledge it is defamation.

You only seek validation, not answers, and that is clear. Go and study more.

>>44968

You seem to be a little dull, so I will link it for you.

From Ibn Abbas (ابنِ عباسٍ), who said: The first thing Allah (اللهُ) created was the pen (القلمُ), so he told it: "Write!" (اكتب) And it wrote what will happen until the Hour (Day of Judgement), then he created the Nun (النون) above (فوق) water (الماءِ), then He pressed (كبس) the Earth (الأرضَ) on it (عليه).

If you had studied Islam outside of r/atheism, you would know that Allah created the heavens and the earth in 6 days at the same time. That would mean that the entire universe, and all of the heavens are riding on this theoretical whale. I only quoted the Sahih hadith since the others are hearsay. You are the one that needs to study more. Islam does not believe that the earth is flying around the sun on a whale. It does however that all heavenly bodies are travelling in an orbit and that the universe is expanding. These points are proven by science. Learn to argue. If someone asks you for something that is clearly visible, present it. Do not throw around insults, that is the way a child argues.

>>44936

>a meteorite that we have to pray towards, circle around and make pilgrimage to but it doesn't count as an idol for some reason

That is a place where we pray to and make pilgrimage to, people aren't praying to a rock you f*cking moron.

>>44971

And yet if people make pilgrimage to a grave and pray towards a grave, that's shirk. You don't care that Catholic prayer to the saints is "veneration" or about their distinction between latria and dulia, it's all shirk to you.

>>44968

He's not OP, I am.

>>44973

Mecca is a special place. It is the one place where Muslims pray towards. It has nothing to do with that rock. You make the point that they are praying to and making pilgrimage to a rock. Praying to saints and graves is completely different.

Why don't you respond to some of the other inconsistencies within your OP? Like the fact that most of it is lies and misconstruations. .

>>44973

I think you are the same person posting under different IPs. Considering how dead this board is, the odds of 2 like minded individuals posting so closely together is highly unlikely. Both of you seem to hate Islam and came here to pick a fight.

>>44936

https://seekersguidance.org/answers/general-counsel/does-modern-science-confirm-the-hadith-that-says-there-is-an-antidote-in-the-wing-of-a-fly/

dipping flies in your drink is proven to actually be true to prevent disease

>>44970

I literally linked to that hadith here: >>44958

And you call me dull?

>>44977

There are several hadith and quotations in that link. I needed to know which one to respond to and in which way, and I responded to the only relevant hadith in that link. I was going to let you choose which one, but instead, you told me I needed to "study more". Why are you ignoring all of the other points that were made?

>>44978

I'm sorry I didn't spoonfeed you and copy/paste one part of an entire article for you. If you can't read a short article and glean from it yourself the relevant portions, how in the world do you expect me to believe you've ever read a single word of Qur'an?

>>44975

>seem to hate Islam and came here to pick a fight

It's probably our local ban evading salafi jihadist. On a long enough timeline, he will expose himself.

>>44979

I'm sorry you can't respond to any of the other points that were made. You can only stick to one single issue regarding a question that was asked. You think since you made the points, you could defend them.

>>44980

Do you actually claim to be a Muslim?

>>44981

>You can only stick to one single issue

A statement about a specific point was made: >>44956

I responded to it: >>44958

Now you're crying about how I haven't addressed anything else. Do you have any idea how conversations work?

>Do you actually claim to be a Muslim?

I am Muslim. Have been for a long time. That's why I don't feel the need to defend Islam when some idiot starts crying about goofy minutia that they don't understand in an obvious attempt to make Muslims stop being Muslim because "omg u believe whale hold earf lol!"

Respond to

>>44976

>>44974

My post about drinking the Prophet's PBUH's urine being a lie seems to have gotten deleted for some reason.

>>44970

in >>44970 I clearly made the point that that hadith does not mean that a whale is holding up the earth.

Respond to the first 3 statements.

BO if you are going to delete my posts that are defending attacks on Islam from slanders such as saying that people drank the Prophet PBUH's urine I think you have some kind of problem.

>>44983

Why are you pretending to be me you psycho

>>44974

The only inconsistency that's been pointed out is Nun and there's someone else here arguing that I'm right about that so idk what to believe. Someone has already said that I'm right about the fly thing and that it actually works.

My source for the rest is the Quran (talking ants, Jews turned into apes), Bilal Philips's Fundamentals of Tawheed (the thing about the Jinn and meteorites) and the hadith (the urine stuff). I'm sure everyone here knows the surahs I'm talking about and the passage from Philips is long and I don't feel like typing it out (it's in the astrology chapter though iirc, there's a PDF) but I'll provide the hadiths. Actually I can't find a sahih source for the ones about people drinking Muhammad's urine now that I look but here is one about drinking camel urine. https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5686

>>44975

>>44982

>hey guys, tawheed seems cool but I don't like all this goofy 🤬, could you give the Islamic explanations for them?

>why do you hate Islam!!!1

I'm not Christian or any other religion that would want to convert you so what would my reason for coming to a board with like 50 people on it to try to undermine your faith be?

>>44987

>hey guys, tawheed seems cool but I don't like all this goofy 🤬

See:

>>11001

This board is a place for Muslims to gather and discuss Islam and not intended as a place where Muslims must defend themselves or their religion from outsiders.

>>44988

I would ask this 🤬 in a mosque too. Literally trying to learn about why parts of the religion that seem objectionable might not be as bad as they sound.

If someone came into a mosque and said "hey, these parts of the religion seem cool but what about jihad and Islamic treatment of women" would you accuse them of having ill intentions or would you make your case?

>>44989

>I would ask this 🤬 in a mosque too.

Ok, then go do it. This board is not for us to defend ourselves from outsiders. Other mosques, other boards, other forums, other websites permit it. This board does not. Soon as you start trying to make us defend ourselves or our religion or our culture, you get slapped down.

This is our space, not yours.

>>44990

If BO decides to remove the thread he can remove the thread. In the meantime maybe you can go read the dozen "I'm interested in Islam but here are my problems with it" threads that already exist here.

>>44991

>read the dozen "I'm interested in Islam but here are my problems with it" threads that already exist here

I think it's you who needs to go read those, see how they were replied to, and remember that next time you make an "I'm interested in Islam, but this part hurts my feely feels, pls get rid of it so I can join your club" thread.

>>44986

It's an old, old trick. Delete own post and then claim it was the mods/jannies/vols/BO/sysop. It's from way, way back in the days when logs weren't kept so there was no way for the jannie/vol to prove it was self-deletion. Now we have logs that cannot be altered. Every moderator action is logged.

>>44991

>If BO decides to remove the thread

I won't remove it, but I really don't expect you'll get the answers you seek. This is not an apologetics board.

>>44993

Why don't you turn off the option to delete one's own posts?

>>44992

Now this is dawah lol. Shouldn't you be trying to save my soul?

>>44992

>>44995

And they don't hurt my fee fee lols, they defy logic. You people never shut up about scientific miracles in the Quran and how great your philosophy used to be so I figured maybe there was an acceptable answer for that besides "anyone bringing this up must be serving shaitan to try to shake my faith because I'm oh so special and everything MUST be about me personally".

>>44995

>Shouldn't you be trying to save my soul?

We don't do that. We're not Christians. Your "salvation" isn't up to us nor is it up to you.

"Allah lets go astray whom He wills and lets find guidance whom He wills." - Qur'an 14:4

You might help your chances by declaring shahadah, joining in the 5 daily prayers, doing good deeds and avoiding wicked deeds; but worrying about whales and urine drinking and Jewish apes isn't part of it. Man proposes, God disposes. I am not here to "save your soul". I am here to give you Qur'an and say, "Read, study, and learn."

>>44997

So give me something about these specific topics to read, that's what this entire 🤬ing thread was supposed to be about.

>>44996

>they defy logic

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it's false. There are acceptable answers to your questions, but those answers are not for you. Unbelievers don't get into the VIP room, kid.

>>44998

Read Qur'an and the Sunnah. All of the answers you seek are there. Enjoy!

>>44999

Next time you wonder why people view Islam as an ethnic club, return to this thread.

>>45001

>implying I said anything about ethnicity

I'm white, kiddo. Dutch-Irish. Palest blue eyes you've ever seen and skin so pale I practically glow in the dark.

>>45000

Thanks. Reading Ling's sirah currently, which I guess covers the sunnah part.

I've read the Quran before but I don't think it was a very good translation (Abdullah Yusuf Ali) and I want to get one with tafsir because some of it doesn't make much sense out of context.

>>45003

You could use quran.com and choose any number of translations. It's really hard to translate Qur'an from Arabic, which is why most are called "interpretations". I tend to advise people who don't read/understand Arabic to read 3-4 different translations and figure it out from there. Each one has a slightly different interpretation of the Arabic, but until you learn Arabic (which isn't hard, I highly advise it) that's what you have to do.

Use sunnah.com for the hadith.

>>45004

I'm too ADHD to read long books online in most cases, my mind wanders a lot. But thanks, that'll let me get a good idea of which ones I wanna pick up at least.

Was thinking of starting with The Study Quran since that seems to have the most notes but I'm sure Seyyed Hossein Nasr is controversial.

>>45005

>I'm too ADHD to read long books online

That's a fairly common problem, nothing to be ashamed of. How are you with audio books? Technically, Qur'an is meant to be recited, not written. Maybe an audio version would help? There are several on YouTube. Takes about 9 hours to recite Qur'an in English, but you can break that up as needed.

>>45006

Ooh looks like the audio versions on Youtube are 20+ hours long. I listened to a couple and they're reading slowly, I guess in order to be more clear?

Now I'm wondering if I should record myself reading it in a normal, American English accent, at a casual pace. Hmm.

>>45007

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8ra36E5wgo&list=PL8aBb7IGkRSlA1abRhgIJn_yxTXTB6OaQ

It's already there.

>>44987

>Why are you pretending to be me you psycho

All the posts I linked are mine.

>>44985

I went to delete the post and correct some errors in it and it said "server unreachable." I guess I assumed you deleted my post because you permanently banned me.

It is a clear lie to say that the Companions RA used to seek blessings from drinking the urine of the Prophet PBUH.

What was reported in this regard is that a woman drank his urine that was in a bowl, thinking that it was water.

This narration is not confirmed authentic as far as its chain of narrators is concerned. This story was reported by Al-Haakim, ad-Daaraqutni, at-Tabaraani and Abu Na’eem from the Hadeeth narrated by Abu Maalik an-Nakha'i from al-Aswad ibn Qays from Nubayh al-‘Anazi from Umm Ayman who said: “One night, the Prophet PBUH woke up and urinated in a bowl. During that night, I woke up in a state of thirst so I drank whatever was in the bowl without realizing [that it was urine] … etc. Ash-Shawkaani said in Nayl al-Awtaar: “Abu Maalik is weak and Nubayh did not meet Umm Ayman.”

>>44936

>but it doesn't count as an idol for some reason

is the dome of the rock an idol? if so all christians and jews are idol worshippers according to you.

>>45027

Non-Muslims never seem to grasp the fact that if God specifically commands it, then it isn't idolatry. We were told to pray towards a specific point, so we do. Doesn't matter what's there. It's the place that matters.

>>45044

Funny thing is this thread was made by a Muslim, and "another person" who is also a Muslim is backing him up on everything he says.

>>45027

Op here, I'm nether Christian nor Jewish

>>45048

Or Muslim lol, I said I was a kaffir in the OP

>>45058

Why is your OP full of misrepresentations and a blatant lie?

>>44936

>>talking ants

>>Jinn flying up to the "lower skies" to eavesdrop on angels talking about the future and being yeeted by Allah with meteorites

>>a meteorite that we have to pray towards, circle around and make pilgrimage to but it doesn't count as an idol for some reason

>>a giant whale that holds the earth on its back

>>apes being Jews who broke the sabbath

Sounds completely normal 2 me

>>44970

"This report – as you can see – is mawqoof and is the words of Ibn ‘Abbaas. It is not the words of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him). What is most likely to be the case is that Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allah be pleased with him) learned it from the words of Ka‘b al-Ahbaar or from the books of Bani Israa’eel that contain many weird and strange things and lies. This is indicated by the details mentioned in some of the books of tafseer concerning this matter. "

It is known Ibn 'Abbaas would relay reports on the beliefs of the Jews of Arabia, many such hadith from him exist, many of these myths are relayed in other books using these sources. This does not reflect on any Islamic orthodoxy, it is useful to know these hadith so as to understand the relationship between the early Muslims and Jews and how they interacted but this is not an Islamic belief, it is not espoused by the Qur'an or the Prophet. This does not present any issue.

On another note, many of these more "superstitious" aspects of Islam are not really outliers when you consider the beliefs of the People of the Book, you may not see this so prominently following the Rationalism adopted by European Jewry in the Middle Ages but these beliefs did exist and do exist in scripture. We say Solomon used command of Jinn to create the Temple, within the Torah it is said he used a worm-like creature called the Shamir (which is indirectly referenced in the Qur'an). The Kaaba is just another Tabernacle of God, as that the Hebrews had wandering in the desert, as the First Temple, you can understand this as God's presence being extended through the two lines of Abraham in two Houses. This is not the proper place to engage in such a discussion and it is difficult to convey and address every point but you must understand each thing as having a place within a preestablished tradition, and if you do not understand this tradition you will not understand these individual things that are peculiar to you.

>>45385

There are of course various distortions and misrepresentations in the original post but I will take it all in good faith.